2024 Pricing Update

[phandaal]

5 hours ago, Alby the Slayer said:

Today I think GW is delusional and will try to squeeze anything she can, before the inevitabile overpriced GW NEW RESIN and 3D PRINTER! NOW WITH BUGGED STL PROGRAM! 

 

"As you all know, the price of Internet Gas has gone up..."

[Xenith]

6 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

 this isn’t correct.

 

Consider me enlightened, though this will inevitably vary according to local laws. From experience, I believe canada and Switzerland were places in which the downloading for personal use of shared files, etc, was legal, while in the UK the end user was culpable.

 

The point about direct attacks/aspersions still stands, lets keep on topic and civil 

Edited May 14 by Xenith
typo

[Firedrake Cordova]

3 hours ago, appiah4 said:

Rescultping a model in the likeness of something that exists from scratch is not theft.  I could redraw the Mona Lisa and sell it

It's probably best to remember that copyright laws vary across the world - there are some jurisdictions where re-creating a work from scratch has been ruled to be infringing on the original work. Anyway, that's probably tangential to the purpose of this thread.  

[Schlitzaf]

I stand by what I said, someone saying “well screw GW not gonna pay them for the thing” then saying downloading something to print out via a 3D Printer, which is “the thing”. Your stealing, you actively choose to avoid paying the “creator” of the model you acquired a blueprint of under the auspices “its cheaper” to make a copy.

[Rhavien]

1 hour ago, Schlitzaf said:

I stand by what I said, someone saying “well screw GW not gonna pay them for the thing” then saying downloading something to print out via a 3D Printer, which is “the thing”. Your stealing, you actively choose to avoid paying the “creator” of the model you acquired a blueprint of under the auspices “its cheaper” to make a copy.

OK, now I'm curious. Where is the line? What if I use models from another company? What if I model them myself with greenstuff? What if I model my own 3D models to print out? What about paper cutouts with pictures on it? I agree with you, if we talk about printing a scan of the model. But even this needs some serious extra work till it looks and prints good. 

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

1 hour ago, Schlitzaf said:

I stand by what I said, someone saying “well screw GW not gonna pay them for the thing” then saying downloading something to print out via a 3D Printer, which is “the thing”. Your stealing, you actively choose to avoid paying the “creator” of the model you acquired a blueprint of under the auspices “its cheaper” to make a copy.

 

Yeah we got it. just be careful how you formulate it. Directing it at someone is one thing, but talking generally and informative is one thing.

 

I am actually not sure where the line is drawn what is legal - is it legal to make moulds in green stuff of bitz for example, for personal use? The next step, scanning and printing for your own use?

 

 

[TheArtilleryman]

13 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

OK, now I'm curious. Where is the line? What if I use models from another company? What if I model them myself with greenstuff? What if I model my own 3D models to print out? What about paper cutouts with pictures on it? I agree with you, if we talk about printing a scan of the model. But even this needs some serious extra work till it looks and prints good. 

I think if you design your own STL from scratch at home that looks like a space marine and print it at home for your own purposes only, you would be fine. But buying or selling an identical GW ripoff, or otherwise distributing it would be where the line is. Just like people can scratch build their own titan without any trouble.

[Redcomet]

In general there are a lot of people that should just leave the gw hobby all together. They don’t like the rules, the new lore, the company, a lot of the minis made after 1995 etc etc. 

If your hobby gives you misery to this degree, why do it. 

[phandaal]

6 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I think if you design your own STL from scratch at home that looks like a space marine and print it at home for your own purposes only, you would be fine. But buying or selling an identical GW ripoff, or otherwise distributing it would be where the line is. Just like people can scratch build their own titan without any trouble.

 

The line is in the same place it was back when sharing music and then sharing movies took off. As in, there is a line somewhere, but it is irrelevant because almost no one will be caught in the act. So people will moralize about it instead - i.e., "you wouldn't download a CAR!!"

 

Most people are not even doing that though. When the printer goes brr, it is going to be with 3rd party miniatures designed by hand that are obviously not GW. They might be easy to tell as a proxy, but they will be original models, not scans or identical copies.

 

For example, one popular 3d file creator is Pipermakes. They make extremely high quality and versatile Tau proxy kits, and when you see them, you know what unit they are supposed to represent. They would also never be confused for GW models, because they have a very different style. Imperial Guard as a faction has a ton of great proxies as well, because it is not hard to design a foot trooper with a laser gun.

 

Those are the kinds of things most people are referring to when they say how much cheaper it is to get good quality models. Not "stolen" designs.

[Mogger351]

32 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

The line is in the same place it was back when sharing music and then sharing movies took off. As in, there is a line somewhere, but it is irrelevant because almost no one will be caught in the act. So people will moralize about it instead - i.e., "you wouldn't download a CAR!!"

 

Most people are not even doing that though. When the printer goes brr, it is going to be with 3rd party miniatures designed by hand that are obviously not GW. They might be easy to tell as a proxy, but they will be original models, not scans or identical copies.

 

For example, one popular 3d file creator is Pipermakes. They make extremely high quality and versatile Tau proxy kits, and when you see them, you know what unit they are supposed to represent. They would also never be confused for GW models, because they have a very different style. Imperial Guard as a faction has a ton of great proxies as well, because it is not hard to design a foot trooper with a laser gun.

 

Those are the kinds of things most people are referring to when they say how much cheaper it is to get good quality models. Not "stolen" designs.

Yes and no, this is a thing:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedWarhammer/

 

There are some creators making awesome proxies, extras and alternative pieces. Those are all fine and great.

 

A scan of top posts recently is mostly those or build/print questions, but you quickly hit "here's my fully printed army of exact clones". Or a more succinct example, there's a printed and mildly altered canis rex, a clone warhound, a clone void dragon and a self sculpted but otherwise identical royal Warden.

 

I don't mind the self sculpted clones as long as they're not for redistribution or sale.

[Tyriks]

=][= Since IP theft and 3d printing practices, and the morality/legality thereof, are not on topic, we are locking this thread. Relevant and board appropriate discussions on printing can be taken elsewhere.

 

As always, if anything that is actually relevant to this thread changes, report this post and we can evaluate reopening. =][=

[Xenith]

Some more info has been brought to our attenion by @Mogger351 so we're reopening this after cooling off.

 

=][= Please keep civil and on-topic, otherwise we'll close it down again. =][=

 

 

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Yeah what can be said that has not already been said? I have a pretty tight budget so it just means less stuff, simple as that. I have the same ammount to use basically. Long gone are the days of buying a box for some bitz to spcie up some other models, making them look cooler.

 

More skirmish games, more second hand (but I am a bit "elitistic" about assmebling, mould lines etc so most stuff is a mess for me, to refurbish..)

And I am slowly going away from any GW paints at all.. Now I have Vallejo, Citadell, AK, Army painted as acrylics and for Airbrush a couple more.. The other acrylics cost the same or less for more paint and they are just as good (if not better)..

 

Interesting times..

[darkhorse0607]

The amount of time it took to go through all the data and put it together gives me a headache.

 

Without going into the rabble rabble of retreading the same complaints I already have I am interested to see two things

 

1) Is Warhammer+ also increasing in price, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but it also doesn't fall into the safe category of things not getting price rises (BL, Paints, etc)

 

2) The Forgeworld piece. Auspex didn't have any info, but I was already thinking about this the other day. I was looking at picking up some more stuff for the Heresy and specifically was looking at the Lion. $155 is already a hard pill to swallow, regardless of how much I like the model. If it were to go up above the $160 it would be a little more off-putting.

 

Also, it's interesting that in one category that they have ample competition and arguably are falling behind, being paints, they aren't raising the prices. As if they know that their paints are already at the tipping point in terms of popularity with consumers (this is speculation just based on how many tutorials you see now using non-GW products in favor of AK, Vallejo, Duncan's paints, etc. I haven't seen a non-GW tutorial use exclusively their stuff in a while compared to how it used to be). I know this is kind of an obvious statement but it can also point to them being more comfortable with price rises because they don't have substantial enough competition in the modeling department, whereas in other areas they do. Not sure why I added this now that it's all typed out but it was just on my mind

[Bryan Blaire]

On 5/14/2024 at 7:05 PM, Redcomet said:

In general there are a lot of people that should just leave the gw hobby all together. They don’t like the rules, the new lore, the company, a lot of the minis made after 1995 etc etc. 

If your hobby gives you misery to this degree, why do it. 

Because the hobby of war gaming in its wide variety doesn’t bring them misery?

 

There are as many ways to continue with “The Hobby” as there are people on the planet - GW and Internet denizens don’t have exclusive right to tell anyone that the Hobby only includes GW’s most recent rules set and models and product offerings.  Even this board, with a narrow focus, doesn’t limit it to just that, as the Moderators have reminded folks that there are subforums and clubs where discussion of non-current material can occur.

 

I personally still get plenty of enjoyment out of kit bashing and painting my older GW models, as well as GW models bought for skirmish games, and playing games, whether those rules are GW produced or not.  My collection and the stories that my friends and I came up with, set in our version of the 40K universe bring me a lot of joy still, and I don’t give a rat’s hind end that others don’t have the same views or stories or “canon” that we do.

 

I also enjoy a much more limited amount of modern models, even if I don’t play the modern game.  I get enjoyment out of trying to rules-craft for older versions of the game using newer unit concepts, even if I don’t post the house rules here.

 

So even if I don’t like the newest lore, newest rules, the company direction, their current art direction or the development of more limited kit-bashing potential models, I still have hundreds, if not thousands of ways to enjoy the hobby, and fans of modern GW won’t turn me away from that.

 

GW’s pricing itself won’t turn me away from all of that either - if anything, it now has even less impact on me than when I was super-interested in almost all their offerings - and realizing the feeling of “needs to be current GW” was unhealthy as well as immensely freeing and rewarding in both mental and monetary ways.

Edited Friday at 02:35 PM by Firedrake Cordova

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

22 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

GW’s pricing itself won’t turn me away from all of that either - if anything, it now has even less impact on me than when I was super-interested in almost all their offerings - and realizing the feeling of “needs to be current GW” was unhealthy as well as immensely freeing and rewarding in both mental and monetary ways.

 

Well said, especially that part. So many ways to enjoy the hobby not to mention the various editions. Some people are too afraid to go away from current rules. Don´t! Some of the gems are old and quite easy to get into (print some manowar ships and print some markers! Great game, yet "old")

 

It doesn´t have to be current GW at all to enjoy it.

[Dark Shepherd]

47 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

The amount of time it took to go through all the data and put it together gives me a headache.

 

Without going into the rabble rabble of retreading the same complaints I already have I am interested to see two things

 

1) Is Warhammer+ also increasing in price, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but it also doesn't fall into the safe category of things not getting price rises (BL, Paints, etc)

 

2) The Forgeworld piece. Auspex didn't have any info, but I was already thinking about this the other day. I was looking at picking up some more stuff for the Heresy and specifically was looking at the Lion. $155 is already a hard pill to swallow, regardless of how much I like the model. If it were to go up above the $160 it would be a little more off-putting.

 

Also, it's interesting that in one category that they have ample competition and arguably are falling behind, being paints, they aren't raising the prices. As if they know that their paints are already at the tipping point in terms of popularity with consumers (this is speculation just based on how many tutorials you see now using non-GW products in favor of AK, Vallejo, Duncan's paints, etc. I haven't seen a non-GW tutorial use exclusively their stuff in a while compared to how it used to be). I know this is kind of an obvious statement but it can also point to them being more comfortable with price rises because they don't have substantial enough competition in the modeling department, whereas in other areas they do. Not sure why I added this now that it's all typed out but it was just on my mind

I think it was the annual report for 2021 (maybe 2020) that said paint sales were flat, which is crazy when you consider how much all other sales ballooned that year

 

The paint is also made in Manchester not Nottingham so maybe they can navigate costs easier there.

[Firedrake Cordova]

20 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

The paint is also made in Manchester not Nottingham so maybe they can navigate costs easier there.

It may or may not be interesting to note that HMG also make Coat D'Arms' and Privateer Press's paints.

 

Working on a per-ml basis using RRP, GW's paints are cheaper than P3, but noticeably more expensive than Coat D'Arms (and Vallejo).

[phandaal]

5 minutes ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

It may or may not be interesting to note that HMG also make Coat D'Arms' and Privateer Press's paints.

 

Working on a per-ml basis using RRP, GW's paints are cheaper than P3, but noticeably more expensive than Coat D'Arms (and Vallejo).

 

P3 Paints cost more because they are made with voodoo dark magic. I have pots of their black and white that are still good after nearly 15 years. Crazy stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Bryan Blaire said:

GW’s pricing itself won’t turn me away from all of that either - if anything, it now has even less impact on me than when I was super-interested in almost all their offerings - and realizing the feeling of “needs to be current GW” was unhealthy as well as immensely freeing and rewarding in both mental and monetary ways.

 

This is very true. The prices for the latest stuff goes up, the prices for new items go up, but there is a huge market out there for minis that can be used for 40k (or 40k-like). Once we get off the treadmill, we see how wide the world really is.

 

North Star Military Figures, Mantic, Wargames Atlantic, secondhand 40k eBay armies, etc. Even without bringing up the forbidden technology that either doesn't work or does work but is totally immoral, there are more ways than ever to get cool scfi minis.

[Firedrake Cordova]

18 minutes ago, phandaal said:

P3 Paints cost more because they are made with voodoo dark magic. I have pots of their black and white that are still good after nearly 15 years.

Formula P3 and Coat D'Arms use the same white flip-top bottles as GW did in the early-to-mid 1990's - I have some GW paints from that time in those bottles, and they're fine (except for my pot of Tin Bitz which got a cracked lid and dried out ). Coat D'Arms is supposed to be the same formulation as the GW paints from that era, and P3 seems to be very similar/the same, as far as I can tell.  

[LittlePlasticHomies]

Paint is more or less a commodified good. Short version being that a consumer’s willingness to pay will seriously tempered by easy substitutes and they’ll have to keep the price at a similar level to their competitors.

 

Warhammer TV also has a boatload of often free substitutes which really keeps pressure on GW to avoid raising prices.

 

[phandaal]

52 minutes ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

Paint is more or less a commodified good. Short version being that a consumer’s willingness to pay will seriously tempered by easy substitutes and they’ll have to keep the price at a similar level to their competitors.

 

Yep, and GW actually has competition there, not just products people might look at as knock-offs. The new Warpaint Fanatics line from The Army Painter is exceptional, for example, and the price point is low. People might be stuck in their ways with buying GW boxed miniatures, but like you say paint is something people are more than willing to swap.

[Redcomet]

GW sell a lot of paint because it is convenient to buy some paint when you pop into the shop for some minis. Also a lot of people look at Gw painting guides and just get the paints mentioned. 

[Ahzek451]

On 5/14/2024 at 1:05 PM, Redcomet said:

In general there are a lot of people that should just leave the gw hobby all together. They don’t like the rules, the new lore, the company, a lot of the minis made after 1995 etc etc. 

If your hobby gives you misery to this degree, why do it. 

Personally I would prefer that most people heavily let off the gas on supporting GW monetarily, but would never expect or want people to disengage from the hobby completely. For me, I have enough models and projects previously purchased to last me the rest of my life. Hobby supplies will be non-GW, and I don't really play anymore anyway(mostly paint and build), and if I do, I see myself trying one page rules.  I enjoy warhammer, not GW. I've used army painter paints off and on for years, but I will be switching to Duncan's paints immediately. 

[phandaal]

25 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

GW sell a lot of paint because it is convenient to buy some paint when you pop into the shop for some minis. Also a lot of people look at Gw painting guides and just get the paints mentioned. 

 

I saw something a while back about contrast paint being a massive hit for GW. Thinking the main reasons they are not raising prices there is because so many other companies got on the bandwagon and GW customers are not as tied to using paints from Citadel.