2024 Pricing Update

[DemonGSides]

17 hours ago, Joe said:

I feel like foisting SpikeyBits on people should be against the forum rules, good God the website is still trash. At least he had the common sense to pack it into a PDF document, which I strongly recommend people instead go straight to rather than giving SB any clicks.

 

It's like GW saw SpikeyBitz one time and was like "We can do that too!".  Like they're in a competition for least usable or readable website.

6 hours ago, appiah4 said:

Kill Team is not an entry point at all IME.  It is incredibly expensive to get into, particularly if you are trying to keep up with the rules.  Moreover, many of the armies are only available as parts of very expensive boxes, particularly around their release windows (~6-12 months).  It is a very scummy model for a supposedly small skirmish game.  There are a ton of better games to get into out there, and no wonder "older players" are doing just that in my area.

 

I would agree that a big box of KT is probably not the entry point for a lot of people, but either 1-off kill teams (if the person has miniature or painting experience) or whatever the current box is has been the entry point for quite a few people I know; obviously anecdotal, but I don't think it's unheard of.  Plus KT is definitely the "First step" Warhammer game, compared to throwing someone directly into 40k; Combat Patrol is a similar "First steps" type of game.

[Emperor Ming]

Once you've been in the hobby a good while, 

 

Some of us, are neither shocked or surprised anymore

 

Its just routine, like rebasing imperial guard heavy weapons teams

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

It's like GW saw SpikeyBitz one time and was like "We can do that too!".  Like they're in a competition for least usable or readable website.

[Nova-V]

To be fair both Spikey Bits and the GW site are paragons of functionality compared to the Fauxhammer site.

 

Price rise wise, I'm middle aged and previously had plenty of disposable income for hobbies. The squeeze from high food, energy and mortgage costs had already severely squeezed my hobby budget.  Add these price rises and I just can't justify buying GW model kits over traditional scale model kits which provide much better value for money for the same or better quality.  I think GW after years of above inflation price rises when times were good needed to skip even an inflation matching rise this year.  The tone deaf nature of the announcement I think hints at how out of touch the company is from the economic realities of it's customers.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

2 hours ago, Nova-V said:

To be fair both Spikey Bits and the GW site are paragons of functionality compared to the Fauxhammer site.

 

Price rise wise, I'm middle aged and previously had plenty of disposable income for hobbies. The squeeze from high food, energy and mortgage costs had already severely squeezed my hobby budget.  Add these price rises and I just can't justify buying GW model kits over traditional scale model kits which provide much better value for money for the same or better quality.  I think GW after years of above inflation price rises when times were good needed to skip even an inflation matching rise this year.  The tone deaf nature of the announcement I think hints at how out of touch the company is from the economic realities of it's customers.

 

Agreed, on all points.

I painted scale models, 1/48 aircraft kits for quitea  few years after leaving the GW hobby in 2007 or 2008.. I still have some but not fiddled with them for some time..

Very good value compared to GW. Hard to compare too much - quality wise right off as one if for playing too. But the level of detail in new Tamiy, Eduard or simialr kits is, something else. But not at GW prices even if Tamiya are costing a bit (for good reason though!)

 

Prices have gone up there as well and you can sink alot into aftermarket resin, brass, decals, masks etc.  But something like Eduards "complete" Profi boxes..  Quite different.

 

It is a very overcosted hobby, Games Workshop, because they can.. Enough people still buy loads. Less might now, but probably not less enough for them to change their mind - sadly?

I think it would be good for us to not impulse buy and stahs too much however.. Plan purchases, - get what is needed for a unit, model, paint and finish it before getting the next. Don´t just buy becasue FOMO.. Skip "unnecessary", and overcosted stuff like various card and dice.. it´s nonsense for the most part.

 

Well, that´s what i will do anyways..

[Redcomet]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:57 PM, caladancid said:

I think for me the pricing increases just fly in the face of the current state of wargaming as a hobby. GW has long emphasized the models more than the rules. There have been, are now, and will be companies with better rulesets. As people try those out, using other models will see more reasonable. And, when you start really looking at the value in 3D printing, it is not a good comparison.

 

Here is a fact. I am just finishing up printing equivalent models for 2x boxes of Fire Warriors, 4x boxes of battlesuits, 2x stormsurges, and 2x riptides. The cost for those STLs was around 100 USD. Printing them took between 50-75 USD of resin. The cost, if I had bought those from a discount retailer would have been 884 before any tax or shipping. So I saved about 700 USD, which covers a very nice 3D printer. You can argue how many people do that or not, but that math is bad for any game company not 3D printing. 

 

Whether or not you agree GW is justified in raising prices every year, the fact is they are raising prices on their models when a significantly cheaper alternative continues to become available.

3d printing isn’t a universal solution for everyone.

 

And people have been claiming the imminent death of GW due to ricing prices since the change to white metal.

[phandaal]

3 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

3d printing isn’t a universal solution for everyone.

 

This is true, but it also gets brought up every single time someone mentions 3D printing as if it changes anything. We get it if someone's kid has asthma, or they live in a small apartment without ventilation, but it also does not change the overall message.

 

Fact is that the ability to create high quality miniatures on demand is becoming easier, safer, and less expensive, while GW prices keep going up. That is the general case, and people's individual situations do not alter what is happening there.

[Redcomet]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

This is true, but it also gets brought up every single time someone mentions 3D printing as if it changes anything. We get it if someone's kid has asthma, or they live in a small apartment without ventilation, but it also does not change the overall message.

 

Fact is that the ability to create high quality miniatures on demand is becoming easier, safer, and less expensive, while GW prices keep going up. That is the general case, and people's individual situations do not alter what is happening there.

I also haven’t d designs I like as much as GW’s. So unless I am willing to take part in dodgy IP practices, which I am not, I am going to end up with lover quality minis. 

[phandaal]

1 minute ago, Redcomet said:

I also haven’t d designs I like as much as GW’s. So unless I am willing to take part in dodgy IP practices, which I am not, I am going to end up with lover quality minis. 

 

Yup, that is fair. There are a ton of dud models out there in the printing space (and hard plastic as well). A lot of people seem to get engrossed in adding more and more details that look great in a blown-up proportions but turn into formless blobs at table distance. Or they build it in weird proportions that do not look good on the table, or just generally not great sculpts.

 

On the other hand, there are also a lot of genuinely high quality original sculpts being made by very talented people. Comes down to preference in the end. If you want exact replicas of GW stuff, it would have to be scans and most people are not comfortable with that.

 

I don't think GW is going to shut their doors tomorrow with a sign saying "3D Printed Out of Business," but the barriers to entry for printing are getting lower and lower all the time.

[Urauloth]

What did Ork vehicles do to anyone to merit getting hit with a 9% hike anyway

[Emperor Ming]

17 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

What did Ork vehicles do to anyone to merit getting hit with a 9% hike anyway

I thought they said 3 to 5%?

[Jings]

I bought a 3D printer set up a few days before this announcement and I couldn't be happier. Took me a day to get printing and I can now get models I actually want at a fraction of the price. 

 

The folks here saying it's not a solution are absolutely deluded. With some light googling you can find high quality 1:1 STLs that cost pennies to print per part. I've had it for coming up two weeks and I can't see myself buying anything GW again. At this point, they're taking the piss. 

[Schlitzaf]

4 hours ago, Jings said:

I bought a 3D printer set up a few days before this announcement and I couldn't be happier. Took me a day to get printing and I can now get models I actually want at a fraction of the price. 

 

The folks here saying it's not a solution are absolutely deluded. With some light googling you can find high quality 1:1 STLs that cost pennies to print per part. I've had it for coming up two weeks and I can't see myself buying anything GW again. At this point, they're taking the piss. 

Some of us aren’t thieves

[MoriyaSchism]

57 minutes ago, Schlitzaf said:

Some of us aren’t thieves

Most of the models I get third party or want to print are things that have been long discontinued by GW. Krieg Grenadiers for example. Last time I bought Krieg Grenadiers from GW was when they had a last chance to buy run for the Grenadier Special Weapon Teams.

[Mogger351]

6 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

I thought they said 3 to 5%?

3-5 on average (which it is for the known items)

[Alby the Slayer]

It's an argument/event as old as this hobby.

 

Personally, I really dislike that I can't buy single pieces (or even sprue) as the old days, 'cause I only paint, collect and convert models now. My last game was 21 years ago.

And I really find hard to justify to spend 30+ bucks for a single mini (characters) when I still have tons of minis to paint.

I will buy the new edition boxes and something that is really interesting for me, but nothing anymore. I am reaching an age when if I still buy massively, I will end in my sixties with more plastic than bricks in my house.

 

As for the 3d printing thing I think it's great.

I use it to print terrain pieces and weapons and bits, rarely models.

I often wonder how 90s me would have reacted at such awesome tool.

Today I think GW is delusional and will try to squeeze anything she can, before the inevitabile overpriced GW NEW RESIN and 3D PRINTER! NOW WITH BUGGED STL PROGRAM! 

 

I'm joking but some changes are coming, maybe when they will see their profit dropping... For now they seems to have no big problems.

 

 

[gideon stargreave]

28 minutes ago, Alby the Slayer said:

ersonally, I really dislike that I can't buy single pieces (or even sprue) as the old days, 'cause I only paint, collect and convert models now. My last game was 21 years ago.

Oh for the mail order troll bits service. The price was worth the customer service provided. I think that might be the issue now. Warhammer has always been expensive. A Minotaur in 1996 was ten quid or thereabouts , but at least I got the impression that the company was being run to make both me and the shareholders happy. Long out of general sale parts we’re still available, whereas now you can’t even buy space hulk. 

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Yeah, the bitz ordering was a nice service. You had to pay for it but you could make some unique stuff for a price that was somewheat managable. Unlike now.

It promoted creativity and those of us into this because of converting, modelling stuff. I like when Codice had options not necessarily present in boxes and you had the freedom to still take it and model it in your own way. I made ten Wolf Gard Terminators for example, all with combi-weapons, some single lightning claws and so on. Totally unique, my models, - no one else had the same ones.

It would have been nice to promote that part of the hobby still, not just shut it down as the options were not made into some box.. I can still do it as display pieces of course but.. it is something that was taken out of the hobby - let people who enjoy that part do their thing. Taken out both by the bitz zservice and the dumbed down Codice.

 

I am also not in the position to get a 3D-printer, now and can see the arguments it is not for everyone.  Printing services - or friends doing it for you might be an thing though?Paying them reasonable and asking for some stuff, not ruining their busy schedule - as my buddies seem very busy printing all the time, lol, could be an option? Not talking about piracy but availble, legal files etc.

 

I can understand the argument about the medium too though. It is easy and nice, gluing plastics..

[Xenith]

3 hours ago, Schlitzaf said:

Some of us aren’t thieves

 

=][= Go easy on the rhetoric lest it devolve into personal attack. The person that buys a dodgy dvd (in ages past) from the market isn't a thief themselves, yet undoubtedly supports a grey market industry that profits off other's IP. =][=

[appiah4]

12 hours ago, Redcomet said:

3d printing isn’t a universal solution for everyone.

 

And people have been claiming the imminent death of GW due to ricing prices since the change to white metal.

 

No, not yet.  But people 5 years ago thought it would never be a solution for anyone.  5 years later everyone in the hobby will probably make it their initial investment.

[TheArtilleryman]

44 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

=][= Go easy on the rhetoric lest it devolve into personal attack. The person that buys a dodgy dvd (in ages past) from the market isn't a thief themselves, yet undoubtedly supports a grey market industry that profits off other's IP. =][=

I don’t like to contradict but this isn’t correct. Downloading pirated music or buying a pirated CD, for example, puts you in breach of copyright laws and you can be prosecuted, even if you weren’t the one selling it. People with large music collections downloaded from LimeWire or wherever have been issued very big fines, even if they weren’t planning to sell it.
 

In theory it would be the same for this. It’s a bit more complicated with pirating miniatures, but scanning and printing an official GW space marine is basically the same as ripping and burning a Springsteen album. The end user might be less likely to get caught, but it’s still a crime. It’s just not practical for companies to go after every individual who does it, so they pursue sellers and try to close them down instead.

 

Not saying people should be quite as direct in their forum responses as the post quoted and I can see why it was flagged, but it’s important to be clear what we’re talking about here. I’m also not getting on my moral high horse about it either and not judging anyone, in case anyone thinks I am; there aren’t many of us who can say they don’t have a single ripped music track or whatever in their collection. Just clarifying the facts.

Edited May 14 by TheArtilleryman

[Halandaar]

11 hours ago, Redcomet said:

I also haven’t d designs I like as much as GW’s. So unless I am willing to take part in dodgy IP practices, which I am not, I am going to end up with lover quality minis. 

 

This is another aspect of it for me (aside from the personal household limitations i mentioned earlier in the thread)

 

I think I'd probably feel differently if I was more a gamer than a hobbyist, but the majority of what I enjoy about the hobby is GW's specific imagery and the way that informs their model design. Although there are lot of exceptionally talented designers out there, relatively few of them can nail the "feel" of Warhammer without directly cribbing GW's work, which I am (largely) not prepared to support.

 

I get it if you just want to play the game and the specific models are unimportant to you, I absolutely see the appeal there. If that was the case for me I'd happily buy a set of "Legally-Distinct Battlemallet Star Soldier Interveners", but I'm as disinterested in playing 40K as I've ever been and so, just as I wouldn't ever buy a GW model I don't like just to play it's rules in their game, I wouldn't buy a 3rd-party mini I don't like for the same reason.

 

(I would say that this opinion is mostly restricted to 40K; Old World / Fantasy Battle has a much broader range of third-party models which are both good and feel like they fit in the setting, which is probably by virtue of it being a more generic-feeling world in the first place)

 

[SvenIronhand]

Lot of people need to learn to distinguish law from morality. IDRC about 3d printing itself, but IP in the US (at least) is choking creativity in favor of moneyed interests. 

[appiah4]

2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I don’t like to contradict but this isn’t correct. Downloading pirated music or buying a pirated CD, for example, puts you in breach of copyright laws and you can be prosecuted, even if you weren’t the one selling it. People with large music collections downloaded from LimeWire or wherever have been issued very big fines, even if they weren’t planning to sell it.
 

In theory it would be the same for this. It’s a bit more complicated with pirating miniatures, but scanning and printing an official GW space marine is basically the same as ripping and burning a Springsteen album. The end user might be less likely to get caught, but it’s still a crime. It’s just not practical for companies to go after every individual who does it, so they pursue sellers and try to close them down instead.

 

Not saying people should be quite as direct in their forum responses as the post quoted and I can see why it was flagged, but it’s important to be clear what we’re talking about here. I’m also not getting on my moral high horse about it either and not judging anyone, in case anyone thinks I am; there aren’t many of us who can say they don’t have a single ripped music track or whatever in their collection. Just clarifying the facts.

This is NOT as black and white as you make it.  Rescultping a model in the likeness of something that exists from scratch is not theft.  I could redraw the Mona Lisa and sell it.  People even clean room reverse engineer software in compliance with copyrights.  Sculpting your own Space Marines from scratch without scanning existing models, even in the same poses and likeness to GW is debatable at best and GW would probably not dare contest this because if they lose they are screwed.  They got royally screwed bad enough in the Chapterhouse case.  There is precedent.  That is the reason why they do not dare sue these models or makers.  Believe me, if GW dared they would sue them all to hell.

Edited May 14 by appiah4
Swear filter dodge

[TheArtilleryman]

13 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

This is NOT as black and white as you make it.  Rescultping a model in the likeness of something that exists from scratch is not theft.  I could redraw the Mona Lisa and sell it.  People even clean room reverse engineer software in compliance with copyrights.  Sculpting your own Space Marines from scratch without scanning existing models, even in the same poses and likeness to GW is debatable at best and GW would probably not dare contest this because if they lose they are screwed.  They got royally screwed bad enough in the Chapterhouse case.  There is precedent.  That is the reason why they do not dare sue these models or makers.  Believe me, if GW dared they would sue them all to hell.

Agreed. You can design your own Space Commandos and sell them fine. But a direct scan and re-print of a GW product is definitely IP theft.