Future of Astra Militarum infantery squads?

[Bouargh]

Hi there,

 

This is mainly an opened question about what you think the future of the infantery squads of the AM might be...

 

I am currently building some squads to come along the Armoured fist company I started gathering along the years. And I am facing some decisions about how too tool up and how to proxy them:

- All round Infantery squad?

- Cadian Shock Troops?

- DKoK?

- Catachan - I discard these as they do not fit well in my theme.

 

The all round is may be the configuration I see has being under scutinity for being phased out: current sprues do not allow its building and, seen the trend, I am betting it maight be living its last days

Cadians are OK, but strangley do have options that look like being more "reduced"

DKoK undying stuff and its 2 sniper rifles is attractive, but will they survive in the future? Or are they also under a Damocles sword such as WarCry models???

 

My favourites as you understood is the All rounf and DKoK, but I feel, let´s say, insecured. What do you think? How is your pronostic?

[TheArtilleryman]

I don’t see regular infantry squads disappearing any time soon and don’t think the state of the boxes affect this. In previous editions the infantry and heavy weapon teams have always been sold separately. I certainly hope they won’t change this option as it’s such a staple of the guard, and not everyone wants Cadians or Krieg.

 

In my army I built all infantry squads, but seeing as they are old Cadians I could swap some loadouts and make them Cadians if I wanted to.

 

Building infantry squads also means you can save on buying a command squad as you can easily mock one up with the parts left over.

 

Krieg are really popular right now and have only recently had their own Codex entry, so I don’t see them disappearing any time soon either.

 

Not that I have a crystal ball mind you …

 

Edited May 11 by TheArtilleryman

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

When you say armored fist, do you mech mechanized infantry, or armored company/regiment?

 

if you’re talking infantry to support an armored company of tanks, I suggest infantry squads.

 

if you’re talking mechanized infantry, i suggest CSTs.

[Bouargh]

27 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

When you say armored fist, do you mech mechanized infantry, or armored company/regiment?

 

if you’re talking infantry to support an armored company of tanks, I suggest infantry squads.

 

if you’re talking mechanized infantry, i suggest CSTs.

 

Tank Company, so far with 5 Russes (different flavors), 2 Basilisks, 2 Armoured Sentinels and 1 Squad of scions in Taurox so far.

WIP: 3 HW support squads and a Legacy Carnaudon. I miss stuff to pick up objectives and/or block table sections - Deep Strike can be a serious issue with mostly tanks in the list...

[SvenIronhand]

Cadians.

[DemonGSides]

7 hours ago, Bouargh said:

Hi there,

 

This is mainly an opened question about what you think the future of the infantery squads of the AM might be...

 

I am currently building some squads to come along the Armoured fist company I started gathering along the years. And I am facing some decisions about how too tool up and how to proxy them:

- All round Infantery squad?

- Cadian Shock Troops?

- DKoK?

- Catachan - I discard these as they do not fit well in my theme.

 

The all round is may be the configuration I see has being under scutinity for being phased out: current sprues do not allow its building and, seen the trend, I am betting it maight be living its last days

Cadians are OK, but strangley do have options that look like being more "reduced"

DKoK undying stuff and its 2 sniper rifles is attractive, but will they survive in the future? Or are they also under a Damocles sword such as WarCry models???

 

My favourites as you understood is the All rounf and DKoK, but I feel, let´s say, insecured. What do you think? How is your pronostic?

Lots of rumors that DKoK are getting an expansion, so I'm not sure where the Warcry concern is; very different games that are utilized very different in their respective universes.  Warcry is basically bespoke teams fighting each other, whereas Kill-team is small squads of 40k factions dueling; I wouldn't worry about a Warcry-esque culling in the KT roster any time soon, if anything it would just be reprints and updates to old squads, but I still think we're a few years from that at this point.

There will always be an infantry squad; whether it continues to get to utilize HWT is another question, but there is always the HWSquad if you want to keep using those units. I'd like it if they came out with even more "default" infantry, right now I'm using Solar Auxilia as Infantry Squads and they feel a little too ornate for "normal" troopers, but I do what I can.

I'm not sure why you'd think the Cadian squads are gonna change; they just came out, barely even a year old at this point.  They can also fully make whatever squad you want in the current index out of a single box, which I think is about the only bar you really need to WORRY about clearing; much how I don't expect Blood Angels to continue to be able to field Death Company with 5 fists and 5 inferno pistols on a 5 man squad, I DO expect Cadian squads to remain very similar in outfit and kit because the way you can outfit them now comes out of a single box; you have one special weapon of each type per box, can make 9 guys plus a sarge, they also have a vox caster.  I don't see that changing in 10th codex when we get one.

I think Catachans are ugly too, but they do have some good rules.  I was thinking about proxying up some ODST like troops; basically elysians without jump jets, and call them Catachans.  The Rambo/Predator aesthetic does nothing for me, but they are undeniably a specific niche that is important (Scout in a battleline unit).

Summed up; I could see the Infantry Squad changing, but I think even GW would be dumb to change too much because of how much IG exists out in the universe from previous editions.  I don't think any of your worries about specific squad types are warranted either, mostly because Cadians are brand new, Plastic DKoK are brand new and KT is pretty big, and Cadians fit their loadout already so I don't foresee any big changes since they want to keep within boxes for loadouts.

Hope this helps!

Edited May 11 by DemonGSides

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Bouargh said:

 

Tank Company, so far with 5 Russes (different flavors), 2 Basilisks, 2 Armoured Sentinels and 1 Squad of scions in Taurox so far.

WIP: 3 HW support squads and a Legacy Carnaudon. I miss stuff to pick up objectives and/or block table sections - Deep Strike can be a serious issue with mostly tanks in the list...

Yeah I’d personally do infantry squads to hold home objectives, screen out your DZ from deep strikers/reserves, and providing a gun line that takes constant advantage of the detachment rule.

 

but I’m also not a competitive player by any means.

[Bouargh]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

But I’m also not a competitive player by any means.

 

Neither I am...

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Bouargh said:

 

Neither I am...

 

No idea how well my idea would work in a tournament setting but it works pretty well in my local meta.

 

i have 2 infantry squads  a FOB and 3 HWSes that I use as a static gun line to support my mechanized guard and russes, and it works pretty well for me.

[AutumnEffect]

The Death Korpse are incredibly popular so I don't think there is any chance they are going away.

Catachans are kinda up in the air imo. The kits are incredibly old but GW has released special event models for them. I think there will either be some new Catachan models released in the next codex or they will be cut.

 

'Generic' infantry squads and platoon command squads, in my opinion, are absolutely going to be cut. If it isn't all in the same box it's not going to be part of a unit and GW gives less than a damn about what people already own *Firstborn*.

Being able to mock up squads like a command squad or another infantry squad by spreading out Heavy Weapons teams is just more of a reason for them to be removed as an option.

DKK and Cadians are safe, Catachan is questionable and generic is headed out to pasture like Tetras and Big Meks with KFF.

[TheArtilleryman]

If they do ditch the infantry squad option that has a heavy weapon team (which I really hope they don’t) then they better increase the number of heavy weapon squads you can take or there are gonna be a whole lotta “useless” models flying around out there.

[AutumnEffect]

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

If they do ditch the infantry squad option that has a heavy weapon team (which I really hope they don’t) then they better increase the number of heavy weapon squads you can take or there are gonna be a whole lotta “useless” models flying around out there.

 

I have a feeling they will do to them what they did with Tau Battlesuits and break them up into at least 2, probably 3 different datasheets.
GW've never really cared about what people have to retire in their collections. 

[TheArtilleryman]

4 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

I have a feeling they will do to them what they did with Tau Battlesuits and break them up into at least 2, probably 3 different datasheets.
GW've never really cared about what people have to retire in their collections. 

It would be fine if they did this, because in heavy weapon squads you only take one kind of weapon anyway, unlike the battlesuits that got all their options messed up. Would be good to have heavy bolters/autocannons in one category and missile launchers/lascannons in the other. Not sure whether mortars would go in cat one or have their own group but either way.

Edited May 13 by TheArtilleryman

[DemonGSides]

Honestly mortars really don't feel like a Heavy Weapon the way the others do.

I know they just got updated in the newest HWS kit but It really feels like a much less "heavy" weapon and it'd be nice if they were just an option for a regular Infantry squad to take in their special weapon slot.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, AutumnEffect said:

The Death Korpse are incredibly popular so I don't think there is any chance they are going away.

Catachans are kinda up in the air imo. The kits are incredibly old but GW has released special event models for them. I think there will either be some new Catachan models released in the next codex or they will be cut.

 

'Generic' infantry squads and platoon command squads, in my opinion, are absolutely going to be cut. If it isn't all in the same box it's not going to be part of a unit and GW gives less than a damn about what people already own *Firstborn*.

Being able to mock up squads like a command squad or another infantry squad by spreading out Heavy Weapons teams is just more of a reason for them to be removed as an option.

DKK and Cadians are safe, Catachan is questionable and generic is headed out to pasture like Tetras and Big Meks with KFF.

I really doubt infantry squads and generic command squads are going anywhere.

[AutumnEffect]

Just now, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I really doubt infantry squads and generic command squads are going anywhere.

 

We'll have to see.

 

I think they are absolutely going away. GW doesn't sell a box for them and if it doesn't have a model its not getting rules.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

We'll have to see.

 

I think they are absolutely going away. GW doesn't sell a box for them and if it doesn't have a model its not getting rules.

GW doesn’t put hunter killer missiles or pintle mounted weapons for russes or chimeras in their kits, do you think those kits are going away as well?

 

the infantry squad kit is the same as the CST kit. 
HWTs are upgrades no different than an HKM or heavy stubber for a chimera.

 

it benefits them greatly to keep infantry squads because if you buy a box of CSTs and HWS to make that infantry squad, you have 2 left over HWTs that cannot be used any other way, so it encourages you to buy two more boxes of infantry, to make use of those other HWTs.

Edited May 13 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Emperor Ming]

It would be almost impossible to make a generic inf squad, theres just too much variation in the guard compared to other factions

 

I cant see the platoon command or inf squad going anywhere. 

 

and they are hardly die hard competitive picks anyway

 

But I can see where peoples thoughts are coming from, GW loves no models no rules policy. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

58 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

It would be almost impossible to make a generic inf squad, theres just too much variation in the guard compared to other factions

 

I cant see the platoon command or inf squad going anywhere. 

 

and they are hardly die hard competitive picks anyway

 

But I can see where peoples thoughts are coming from, GW loves no models no rules policy. 

They do, which is why the infantry squad will not go anywhere.

any infantry kit is an infantry squad kit.

 

heavy weapons are only an upgrade, no different than HKMs and pintle mounts for chimeras, and leman russes.

 

[AutumnEffect]

14 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

GW doesn’t put hunter killer missiles or pintle mounted weapons for russes or chimeras in their kits, do you think those kits are going away as well?

 

I think the Leman Russ and Chimera kits are in line to get redone very soon so it wouldn't surprise me if they were 'going away'. The Chimera and Leman Russ hulls are almost thirty years old. The kits were last revamped in 2010. That aside, GW currently sells an Astra Militarum Tank Accessories kit and there is no unit called Hunter Killer Missile or Pintle Heavy Stubber so the comparison isn't really apt.
However, if GW stops selling that accessories kit then I believe those options will no longer have rules to support them. When the Chimera and Leman Russ kits are redone, if they do not have those options in the kit then I do not believe those upgrades will have rules to support them either.

 

There is no box called 'Infantry Squad' or 'Platoon Command Squad'. I believe it's pretty clear that these were included in the index as a legacy option. If it wasn't mean to be a legacy option then there would be no reason why the current Cadian Shock Troops unit and Cadian Command squad cannot take a Heavy Weapon team, to say nothing of why the Catachan or Death Korpse units cannot also take a Heavy Weapon team as an option.

There are no longer rules for Conscripts, Veterans or Special Weapon squads because they do not sell a box for those units, all of which could theoretically be constructed from the same kits that support generic Infantry and Platoon squads.
I would have thought the writing would pretty clearly be on the wall with the precedent of those three.

 

This is the same as what GW has done for Firstborn and Primaris. They are letting you keep playing with your older collection for awhile but hinting with a wink and a nudge that this is the new paradigm.

 

But as I said, we'll just have to see. 

 

 

Edited May 14 by AutumnEffect

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

I think the Leman Russ and Chimera kits are in line to get redone very soon so it wouldn't surprise me if they were 'going away'. The Chimera and Leman Russ hulls are almost thirty years old. The kits were last revamped in 2010. That aside, GW currently sells an Astra Militarum Tank Accessories kit and there is no unit called Hunter Killer Missile or Pintle Heavy Stubber so the comparison isn't really apt.
However, if GW stops selling that accessories kit then I believe those options will no longer have rules to support them. When the Chimera and Leman Russ kits are redone, if they do not have those options in the kit then I do not believe those upgrades will have rules to support them either.

 

There is no box called 'Infantry Squad' or 'Platoon Command Squad'. I believe it's pretty clear that these were included in the index as a legacy option.
There are no longer rules for Conscripts, Veterans or Special Weapon squads because they do not sell a box for those units, all of which could theoretically be constructed from the same kits that support generic Infantry and Platoon squads.
I would have thought the writing would pretty clearly be on the wall with the precedent of those three.

 

But as I said, we'll just have to see. 

 

 

I’m not sure when the Russ or chimera were redone last but their current kits aren’t even 20 years old right now, let alone approaching 30, and when the kit was redone they specifically took those upgrades out away, to create an upgrade sprue.

 

the comparison is apt, because the leman Russ datasheet has options that are not available in their kits.

 

its no different than buying an upgrade sprue to get all the options available for a Russ.

Edited May 14 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[AutumnEffect]

11 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’m not sure when the Russ or chimera were redone last but their current kits aren’t even 20 years old right now, let alone approaching 30, and when the kit was redone they specifically took those upgrades out away, to create an upgrade sprue

Lexicanum's miniature portal is a good reference.

The current Chimera and Leman Russ kits were repackaged in 2010 while the hulls are the same as the ones released in 1995.

 

Quote

the comparison is apt, because the leman Russ datasheet has options that are not available in their kits.

 

It is not apt because a Hunter Killer Missile is not a unit you can place on the tabletop. I don't know why that wouldn't be obvious.

Edited May 14 by AutumnEffect

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also if they wanted to get rid of the standard infantry squad there’s no reason for them not to have done so when they squatted all of those other legacy units.

[AutumnEffect]

10 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Also if they wanted to get rid of the standard infantry squad there’s no reason for them not to have done so when they squatted all of those other legacy units.

 

They hadn't had the new Cadian releases yet. If they had gotten rid of standard infantry squads at that time then there would have been no infantry in the Imperial Guard at all.
They got rid of the units that didn't have a dedicated box.

There is a reason why none of the new unit profiles have the option to take a Heavy Weapons team. It's not going to be a feature for infantry squads in the future.

But as I've said several times now. We will have to wait and see.

Edited May 14 by AutumnEffect

[TheArtilleryman]

I think of it like the HH kits. You buy the tacticals, and you can buy special or heavy weapons separately. This is how guard infantry has worked for a long time and I think (and definitely hope) it won’t change.

Edited May 14 by TheArtilleryman