Reassessing Cult Troops in CSM

[LSM]

In the Index detachment (Slaves to Darkness), CSM play revolved around maximising the effects of Dark Pacts. The Cult Troops didn't gain the army rule, and as such, didn't gel well with the army. But now that there are an additional seven detachments (and a slight nerf to Dark Pacts), do Cult Troops have a place in lists?

 

There's the obvious cut-out in Veterans of the Long War's stratagem Let the Galaxy Burn (no Tzeentch units) to prevent Warpflamer Rubrics going HAM, but a unit of Plague Marines can have a Plague Spewer and a Plague Belcher for every five models. Not too shabby.

 

Part of me also wants to suggest Noise Marines in Dread Talon (a unit that forces Battleshock Tests in a Battleshock detachment), but I'm not sure that would actually do much.

 

Fellhammer Siege-Host's Point Blank Destruction could be good for Rubrics and Noise Marines, and Iron Fortitude... well, helps everyone, but Plague Marines start feeling properly tough. 

 

Anything else jump out to anyone?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

From the Alpha Legion perspective, there's nothing that really suggests using Cult Troops.  None of them are available for the Detachment Infiltration -- that's limited to Legionaries & Mobs -- and none of the enhancements interact with them at all either.  On the stratagem side, you can use From All Sides to help Berzerkers get into combat but that's honestly probably better used on deep striking Terminators.  Pick Them Off can apply to their shooting, but Rubrics laden with flamers don't need the help with the hit rolls.  Plague Marines and Noise Marines have more interactivity with shooting, but it's mostly anti-personnel fire and I'd rather use this to help crack armor or monsters in most cases.  Coils is probably the best for use with Rubrics who get tied up in combat.

[Kaiju Soze]

Rubrics with Warpflamers in Renegade Reavers: against units on objectives the flamers are AP-2 (-3 on 6s to wound) with full re-rolls to wound.

[Gree]

Cult Troops benefit well from being in the Renegade Raiders list. Assault and +1 AP for Objectives is great no matter the unit. Warpflamer Rubrics get the most synergy from that benefit. Assault on AP-2 Warpflamers is great and they don't care about the loss of Dark Pacts. I'd even say Bolter Rubrics get a pretty solid buff thanks to the Detachment rules.

 

All of the Cult Troops benefit from access to Strategems.  Plague Marines and Berzerkers like having easy access to Advance and Charge. AoC is great on Plague Marines and Rubrics. Plague Marines and Berzerkers get access to the re-roll strat.

[Tokugawa]

Flamer rubrics have awesome synergy in "Red Corsair" detachment, and don't lose anything to absence of pacts, since they didn't need to roll hit rolls.

 

Plague marines and Zerkers don't really provide any functions which CSM don't already own. We haven't seen the stable form of noise marine yet. Would it still have pacts?

[Kaiju Soze]

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Plague marines and Zerkers don't really provide any functions which CSM don't already own. We haven't seen the stable form of noise marine yet. Would it still have pacts?

Index: EC noise marines may still have Pacts, the eventual Codex release almost certainly will not.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

To expand on what @Kaiju Soze said, yeah, the Index will almost definitely have Pacts, as those are our army rule and the Index rules will just be a ninth detachment for the Chaos codex.  I suppose they could make it a different army that simply draws on all the same units as the codex instead, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

 

But yeah, when we get a codex it will be gone, replaced with with an army rule specific to Emperor's Children, and with then several of its own detachments.  I wouldn't be surprised if the detachment rule in the Index becomes the army rule in the codex, but that is really just speculation.

Edited May 13 by Dr_Ruminahui

[N1SB]

12 hours ago, Gree said:

Cult Troops benefit well from being in the Renegade Raiders list. Assault and +1 AP for Objectives is great no matter the unit. Warpflamer Rubrics get the most synergy from that benefit. Assault on AP-2 Warpflamers is great and they don't care about the loss of Dark Pacts.

 

9 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Flamer rubrics have awesome synergy in "Red Corsair" detachment, and don't lose anything to absence of pacts, since they didn't need to roll hit rolls.

 

The really active players in our local Warhammer WhatsApp group zoomed in on this exact issue, too.  Of the Cult Troops, it's the top of mind one.  It's one of those things like last time where people want to use Rubrics in a CSM list rather than a KSons list, it's actually kinda interesting to me.

[LSM]

6 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

...the Index will almost definitely have Pacts, as those are our army rule and the Index rules will just be a ninth detachment for the Chaos codex...

 

I made this mistake as well, but I've had it pointed out to me that the Index: EC announcement article on WarCom doesn't actually say that they'll be getting their own detachment. 

 

(Theoretically, if might literally be only three pages long. One for the restrictions on what you can and cannot take - ie anything from Codex: CSM that's not marked by another god - and datasheets for Lucius and Noise Marines.)

[Arkzein]

As an EC player really looking forward to Noise Marines in Raiders assuming their rules and points stay the same. Having essentially 9th edition Blastmasters back makes me smile.

 

If they are bumped to OC2 they are almost the perfect tactical flexible unit around objectives IMO. If giing for full primary denial then having cheap flexible options to ensure you max secondary, and being cldecent at ckeaeing and hokding primary, screening etc  as well is pretty handy. So many other tasty options there too.

 

Can dream about the Index giving a proper Melee Noise Marine unit / Options (replace blastmaster with doon siren abd second heavy melee maybe) but expect they'll change little until the codex.

 

Lucius and MoE / Slaanesh Legionaries generally already were amazing on primary, even moreso now.

 

In Dread Talons, though not te best detachment, they seem almost mandatory to get decent shooting phase Battleshocks rolling and the detachment is pretty on theme. Looking forward to making them work there in casual. Regular opponent play daemons so healing in the shadow will be funny.

Edited May 13 by Arkzein

[Muskie]

I will be of course doing this. Starting with Plague Marines but I have a unit, well most of a painted unit of Bezerkers, and I have all the Noise Marines but only one painted. 500 points is what I read so I don't really need Bezerkers, let alone Noise Marines and Rubrics giving how many Plague Marines I have painted, but I'll probably do up a unit of each. They can't even have Rhinos in the new codex can they?

 

Do they get Heretic Astartes keyword and lose say Bubonic? That would allow you to use stratagems. Chaos Daemons can't have strategems played on them can they?

[Kaiju Soze]

3 hours ago, Muskie said:

Do they get Heretic Astartes keyword and lose say Bubonic? That would allow you to use stratagems. Chaos Daemons can't have strategems played on them can they?

Cult marines lose their original Faction keyword, which is replaced with Heretic Astartes. They then count as a CSM unit for Detachment rules and Stratagems but don't get Dark Pacts because it isn't on their datasheet.

 

So you can put plague marines in a Rhino if you wish.

 

Note that it is 250pts/1000 total, not per faction. If you bring 500 points of plague marines in a 2k army, you can't include any rubrics/berzerkers/noise marines.

[Muskie]

I realize it is all in, I just have collected so many models over the years, I don't think I've ever fielded my berserkers. I think I need to paint three more. I couldn't decide on the special weapons. I'm glad I can get a rhino. I wonder if it comes out of the cult marine quota or you buy it from your main vehicle pool. Transports used to be locked to the unit, but now you can get in and get out.

 

My army did not do well tonight and I didn't play well. But a lot of what I want to do and a lot of my unpainted and painted miniature collection should work in CSM and I fielded 10 plague marines in 1000 points of Death Guard and I like Plague Marines. So in 1000 points of Irony Warriors I could have the same 10 man unit, just no Plague Surgeon. I'm just thinking how I can boost Plague Marines outside of a Death Guard army or Bezerkers outside the World Legion. 

 

I'm really looking forward to getting my Havocs back. I have two squads and will probably do a third squad. I will alot the rest of my heavy weapons to Legionaire squads I guess. I don't like how havoc heavy bolters are on one base size and legionnaire heavy bolters are on a different base size. I'll have to rejigger my chosen too as in the olden days they could have a heavy weapon.

 

I want to have guns that shoot over 24 inches. Also I think I'm tired of being so slow. Many missions especially in a campaign are hard without mobility.

[Kaiju Soze]

Rhinos come out of the 2k. It's just those 4 units specifically that are limited.