Thoughts on the Codex so far?

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

Although we've not got the codex in hand yet and are missing a large bit of the context in the points, we've seen nearly every rule in the codex. What are your thoughts so far?

 

What's had a glow up or a change that you're excited about?

What are you looking forward to trying?

Are there any negatives for you with the new codex?

Are there any detatchments that specific units will excel in?

Any Clear favourite detatchments?

[Galron]

Im liking what I am seeing so far. The warp talons do one of my favorite things and pop-tart. I am probably going to bring a 10 man as an actual assault unit and a 5 man for objectives. Not entirely happy about the "Night lord" detachment but after 30 years of playing them, I am used to being let down. The red corsair detachment more matches my "I like to go fast" mindset with some ooomph. Probably going to do my Call to Arms oath and finish up a bunch of my 30 and 40k night lords and take a break from painting red and black. All the units I like to use got decent to good. With the way things work now days I will be able to toss in Haarkon with a winged helm :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As an Alpha Legion player, I like how the Deceptors Detachment looks and can't wait to try it out.  As a fan of Legionaries, I also like that it promotes taking this unit.  The strats and enhancements are all flavorful and have utility; nothing seems wasted or tacked on.

 

Unit by unit, I'm disappointed that Cultists lost their autogun & special weapon options; that Dev Wounds are now once-per-game on Possessed; and that Legionaries are still prohibited from doubling up on the same special/heavy option.  Oh, and my Noc Crown is now basically useless.  That really hurts.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Excited about the updates to Warp Talons and Cypher.

The "Night Lord" detachment needs love, but Allies might make it work.  Changecasters, Blue Horrors, Bloodcrushers, Skull Cannons, Poxbringers, Sloppity Bilepiper, and the Knight Abominant are all examples.

 

Favorite Detachments by Legion/Warband I play:

 

Black Legion (esp Black Lions): Veterans of the Long War. Interesting Combo: Berzerkers and "Milennia of Experience" moving big distances during opponent's turn to get to grips. We'll see if it works.

 

Iron Warriors: Fellhammer. Interesting Combo:  Chaos Lord with Daemon Hammer and Iron Artifice in a 10 man unit of Chosen with a Master of Executions. That will hurt a lot of things, especially getting out of a transport to rocket forward to advance, shoot, and charge to explode whatever they hit, then consolidate forward, let opponents take a swing and pop off other stratagems for payback before blasting their way free via Point Blank Destruction.

 

Night Lords: Renegade Raiders/Deceptors (tie). Both of those work for either the hard hitting, raiding aspect of the Eighth or their trolling shenanigans, especially their comms interference and tendency to raid prisons for recruits/cannon fodder. Interesting Combo: Mark of the Hound + Lord Discordant + Reavers' Haste. "Scout+ Advance + Charge Missile" might be the best job for a Lord Discordant.

 

[Muskie]

I will follow through and make the Diseased Sons the Irony Warriors of Nurgle. The Renegade Raider list may be better, but I have multiple havoc squads and am so tired of being outgunned. I will bring the dakka. I also have my long stalled trench table project and themed my bases around mud and trenches. I will still field Plague Marines and Nurglings because some dreams never die.

[jimbo1701]

Am I correct that there is no way to represent the new night lord upgrades on legionaries in the codex aside from proxy? 

[Kaiju Soze]

1 hour ago, jimbo1701 said:

Am I correct that there is no way to represent the new night lord upgrades on legionaries in the codex aside from proxy? 

Well, the kit includes a variant heavy melee weapon (the chainglave) and icon bearer. Otherwise no, which is pretty standard for the kill team kits; typically only a couple of special operatives get main game rules.

Edited May 14 by Kaiju Soze

[AutumnEffect]

I'm looking forward to trying a Havoc squad with Heavy Bolters in Pactbound Zealots marked to Tzeentch.

The math for them is actually surprisingly good. Turns out when Heavy Bolters get Sustained Hits 1 & Lethal Hits that proc on 5+ they can threaten a broad range of targets.
Feels good to have heavy bolters be solid.

[Karhedron]

I don't play Chaos but those new Detachments are starting to tempt me towards Heresy. There looks like a good variety with several solid possibilities.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That the idea has infected you means it's too late.  You are marked, friend.  Join the Long War.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

And pledge some for Call to Arms in the chaos stronghold!

[Lord Marshal]

Is it just me who finds it funny that the Not!Oath Of Moment rule went to the Veterans of the Long War Detachment instead of the Renegade Chapters?

 

I know Renegade Reavers is very specifically trying to cover Red Corsairs, but you'd think thematically it fit the "hopped off the Emperor's wagon a few centuries ago at most" armies better.

 

Not a complaint, just a realisation. 

 

Edited May 14 by Lord Marshal

[AutumnEffect]

17 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

Is it just me who finds it funny that the Not!Oath Of Moment rule went to the Veterans of the Long War Detachment instead of the Renegade Chapters?

 

I know Renegade Reavers is very specifically trying to cover Red Corsairs, but you'd think thematically it fit the "hopped off the Emperor's wagon a few centuries ago at most" armies better.

 

Not a complaint, just a realisation. 

 

 

Honestly I think it fits more with the chaos detachment than it does the loyalist. I remember whenever the Horus Heresy books came out and the oath of moment became a 'thing' that the legions did pre-heresy.

I actually haven't seen any lore mentions of it still being a thing post heresy. Not saying there are none, I just haven't seen them. 

I'm also excited to try out a unit of just basic melee Legionaries in the Renegade Raiders. The +1 AP vs units in range of an objective is great with their re-roll wound rolls in melee vs a unit on an objective. 10 man unit with an Accursed Weapon on the Champion and a Heavy Melee Weapon they'll kill 7 other marines in melee which isn't bad numbers. They'll blender chaff.

Edited May 15 by AutumnEffect

[Maximus]

I've just got into Chaos (a Chaos Lord, 2 war dogs, a box of legionaries and one of terminators so far) and so was interested to see the new detachments to kind of steer my next purchases. I like the look of the Renegades, but also the Black Legion type one. Goonhammer have a good write up with articles for each one which, for a newbie like me, makes for useful reading.

[Brother Nathan]

generally i like it but ... starting to notice a few inconsistency that confuse me. i was playing around with enhancements as the thoughts of potentially having 2 in a unit could do well but i see little overlap. and do like the idea of a warpsmith in a squad of havocs giving them +1 to wound with autocannons.. anyway

bastion plate says chaos lord may take it (but not jumppack lord) but chaos lord with jumppack is a different unit, and dosent have chaos lord key word right? weird but alright... then i looked at the night lord detachment which has one similar but its wording is chaos lord and in brackets but not one in terminator armour... but its a highlighted key word? can chaos terminator lord take bastion plate? is this not strange/ a fail on key words? thoughts?

else wise i like the detachments and likely will mostly stick with the iron warrior one as it suits my army play style

[Redsun]

What does "TARGETTARGET" do?

[TrawlingCleaner]

I think the things that are most exciting for me to try out at the Lord Disco, Legionnaries, Defilers, Bikes and Raptors all in the Raiders detatchment. Obviously points mean a lot here (and the points that were printed in the codex seem way off the mark) but I think these all get a big boost from Raiders.

The Lord Disco especially seems like it benefits from Raiders (being Mounted and not a vehicle) more than other detatchments, extra AP is great for it's low AP melee attacks and also pushes the Melta shots in -5 AP which ignores even Land Raider Armour saves. There's an enhancement that gives the unit 6" Scout move which could be pretty handy, I think there's a good few situations you'd want to use that and get aggresive with the Disco.

I also think the Enhancement to Re-roll all hits and wounds if within 12" of the enemy deployment is kind of nuts when he always wants to be doing that. Makes him much more reliable at picking up MEQs and light vehicles, and a bit more potent into T11 profiles too with the Lance on his glaive. Although definitely not the right target I think

 

Defilers and really any low AP guns or weapons like the Predator Destructor, Forgefiends with Autocannons, Most Havoc Weapons, Chaincannons, chainswords etc are all boosted pretty nicely with the detatchment and also to move a lot more too which lets them get better angles or avoid return fire

 

Something I am concerned about is that this detatchment really focuses in on forcing your opponent off objectives with frankly incredible bonuses on top of Dark Pacts. Is it too much? I guess we'll see and if I'm worrying too much as I suppose the trade off for a great detatchment is that a lot of the datasheets are quite average and focus close range fighting which most armies are able to deal with our foot troops very easily. The game's damage does seem to be focused on MEQ killing output

[ShotgunFacelift]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:26 PM, GreaterChickenofTzeentch said:

 

Iron Warriors: Fellhammer. Interesting Combo:  Chaos Lord with Daemon Hammer and Iron Artifice in a 10 man unit of Chosen with a Master of Executions. That will hurt a lot of things, especially getting out of a transport to rocket forward to advance, shoot, and charge to explode whatever they hit, then consolidate forward, let opponents take a swing and pop off other stratagems for payback before blasting their way free via Point Blank Destruction.

 

 

Sounds like a fun unit to build an army around

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:43 AM, AutumnEffect said:

I'm looking forward to trying a Havoc squad with Heavy Bolters in Pactbound Zealots marked to Tzeentch.

The math for them is actually surprisingly good. Turns out when Heavy Bolters get Sustained Hits 1 & Lethal Hits that proc on 5+ they can threaten a broad range of targets.
Feels good to have heavy bolters be solid.

Ive used nurgle havocs with a hellbrute from the index.  It wasn't that good because havocs are just marine bodies.  As soon as they look too threatening they are gone.  Also just having ap -1 means you get hard countered by armour of contempt.  

[AutumnEffect]

3 hours ago, SanguinaryGuardsman said:

Ive used nurgle havocs with a hellbrute from the index.  It wasn't that good because havocs are just marine bodies.  As soon as they look too threatening they are gone.  Also just having ap -1 means you get hard countered by armour of contempt.  

 

Interesting, out of curiosity what did you arm your Havocs with? Mark of Nurgle gives Sustained Hits 1 which heavy bolters already have. 

 

They are definitely a piece to try and force unfavorable trades, but I think they have good value. The heavy bolters with Tzeentch mathematically should outright kill 5 MEQ profiles a turn which is actually really great trade potential for their cost.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

Interesting, out of curiosity what did you arm your Havocs with? Mark of Nurgle gives Sustained Hits 1 which heavy bolters already have. 

 

They are definitely a piece to try and force unfavorable trades, but I think they have good value. The heavy bolters with Tzeentch mathematically should outright kill 5 MEQ profiles a turn which is actually really great trade potential for their cost.

I used heavy bolters... I modelled them in 9th so I didnt know heavy bolters would have sustained hits in 10th.  Their output was good with abaddon and/or a hellbrute but they were not very cost efficient or durable.  An autocannon pred about the same cost and can actually absorb enemy firepower.  Much superior imo.  

 

I dont see how a 130 point unit is a great piece if you are targeting units that typically cost 90 to 100 points.

[AutumnEffect]

1 hour ago, SanguinaryGuardsman said:

I used heavy bolters... I modelled them in 9th so I didnt know heavy bolters would have sustained hits in 10th.  Their output was good with abaddon and/or a hellbrute but they were not very cost efficient or durable.  An autocannon pred about the same cost and can actually absorb enemy firepower.  Much superior imo.  

 

I dont see how a 130 point unit is a great piece if you are targeting units that typically cost 90 to 100 points.

 

The Autocannon pred is really good but I haven't compared the two mathematically.

 

The reason why it's good for trades is because it would take a 160 point unit of Intercessors 95 shots, or all 5 turns of a game to kill them while it would only take the 120 point Havoc squad 2 turns to kill all 10 intercessors.
That's fantastic comparative firepower for the cost.

A 25% cheaper unit with more than double damage output.

They are a 'glass cannon' but they are far from bad. I don't want to get into an argument about it but I would give them another shake and see how they turn out.

 

 

 

Edited May 16 by AutumnEffect

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I guess but you wouldn't use intercessors to efficiently remove other intercessors.  You would use hellblasters or inceptors or bladeguard.

 

I dont think heavy bolter havocs are BAD, they just arent that good.  They exist is this awkward space where they dont really trade up and are very vulnerable to being traded up into.  They are also slow, only OC 1, and have no character support.  I'd much rather take 5 warp talons, a predator tank, 20 cultists, 5 legionaries, another support character, or even 10 plaguebearers.

[AutumnEffect]

3 hours ago, SanguinaryGuardsman said:

I guess but you wouldn't use intercessors to efficiently remove other intercessors.  You would use hellblasters or inceptors or bladeguard.

 

They are actually pretty comparable to Hellblasters. Slightly better for 5 points more.
5 Hellblasters will do 9.26 wounds to a MEQ but only if they Overcharge and risk the Hazardous.
5 of the Heavy Bolter Havocs will do 10 wounds to a MEQ with only the heavy bolters (not counting the Champion's range weapon, prolly a plasma gun to maybe chip a wound in) and have the Toughness 5.
I can see some potential play here with them in a Rhino. 

 

3 hours ago, SanguinaryGuardsman said:

They are also slow, only OC 1, and have no character support. 

 

Those aren't really much of an issue with fire support unit.

 

I'm just saying man. Should give em a try with the Tzeentch mark. 

Edited May 17 by AutumnEffect

[Brother Nathan]

not quite the no support unit... they can take awarpsmith though no overlap... unless... you give him an enhancement... as an iron warrior i am tempted to stick them on an objective with one with ironbound eminety (spelling?) for a plus 1 to wound... autocannons going ater tanks on 4+ or other stuff on 2+? ok it dosent help their ap... may haps heavy bolters?