Thoughts on the Codex so far?

[Metzombie]

Even without Rapid Ingress they can be very usefull. They can take undefended objectivs and score secondaries quiet easy.

[Kaiju Soze]

Rapid Ingress and the Advance+Charge+1" charge move strat. Red ones go faster isn't exclusive to Orks.

[Maximus]

So I am just looking for a low points unit to complete my army list, and I know previuosly Nurglings have been popular but with the recent changes I am seriously considering Flesh Hounds. They have a much better stat line (apart from wounds, although there are 5 in a unit as opposed to 3 for Nurglings) and the "leader" of the unit has a ranged weapon equivalent to a flamer. If I paint them to look like dragons they would fit in nicely with the the fluff of my army which is Dornian Heresy Salamanders. What does the combined wisdom of the warp think?

[LSM]

Sadly, Flesh Hounds aren't Battleline, so if you want to take a unit of them you also need to take a unit of Bloodletters.

[MadEdric]

I had me a game Sunday using the Soulforge detachment. I was pleased at how it played. It is one of the few detachments that build off of dark pacts. Man can it build off of them.

Near my Warpsmith (who had the Tempting Addemdum), the beasts were getting Sustained or Lethal hits, +1 to wound, and rerolling all hits, just for a  risk of 2-4 MW. Not a bad trade. This made even the humble venomcrawler a serious threat to most targets. 

I'll be trying out the Fellhammer detachment next.

[Brother Nathan]

looking at the stats soo far and interesting which detachments are preforming well... Pactbound Zealots (67%)and soulforge (55%) are doing the best whilst raiders (50%) is the most common but not quite preforming as well which i find suprising. but them itll take a bit for players to tech into such builds. im most interested in fel hammer but ive to finish my league games out first... 

[Maximus]

17 hours ago, LSM said:

Sadly, Flesh Hounds aren't Battleline, so if you want to take a unit of them you also need to take a unit of Bloodletters.

Thanks, @LSM , I hadn't spotted that; back to the drawing board.

[Cryptix]

Honestly I'm starting to consider 10 Legionnaires with a Master of Execution in a Rhino for soulforged - it's a lot of points, but it's come up twice now where I've had to move multiple daemon engines onto a point because my defilers and maulerfiends don't have enough attacks to mop up a tough unit like plague marines or Terminators.

[MadEdric]

10 hours ago, Cryptix said:

Honestly I'm starting to consider 10 Legionnaires with a Master of Execution in a Rhino for soulforged - it's a lot of points, but it's come up twice now where I've had to move multiple daemon engines onto a point because my defilers and maulerfiends don't have enough attacks to mop up a tough unit like plague marines or Terminators.

I used a unit of 10 assault Legionnaires with a Chaos Lord and really liked how they perform. They hunt objective campers and the reroll wounds they get can really add up. I didn't think the Lord mixed that well as the free strat ability never came up, but a MOE might be a better fit. 

[Brother Nathan]

2 minutes ago, MadEdric said:

I used a unit of 10 assault Legionnaires with a Chaos Lord and really liked how they perform. They hunt objective campers and the reroll wounds they get can really add up. I didn't think the Lord mixed that well as the free strat ability never came up, but a MOE might be a better fit. 

Which detachment? Some have auto use strats 

[Prot]

I think most people picked "raiders" to be the competitive one.

 

I tried it... I'm very familiar with my Chaos, and I played against Nids and I couldn't kill anything. This is a brutal nids list to face. Most people I know really dislike playing this guy entirely because of his list. (He's a nice guy, just a brutal list). It's full of cheap monsters, and a brutal combination of too survivable and too much damage for the points.

 

I got clobbered by it using Raiders. I mean not even close. I just couldn't dent it, and the inability to push him back left my detachment in a vulnerable spot. Just way too many carnifex's, and those shooty monsters are 130 which is just absurd since that's what a Helbrute costs. That thing wipes about 6-8 Chosen a turn even with a 4++.

 

So anyway, I'm actually sad I sold my Soul Forged IW. They were (imho) the best. I had a good run with them (undefeated) and now they're gone. I don't think Raiders is my favourite anyway. I'm trying Votlw now.

 

Also I'm going to leave Abaddon out of it. I think he's officially reached Primarch status: Too expensive for what he does. 

 

[MadEdric]

6 hours ago, Brother Nathan said:

Which detachment? Some have auto use strats 

This was in the Soulforged detachment. No real strats for infantry there, besides the generic ones. Always forgot I could do a command reroll for free. Besides the assault Legionnaires, I also had a 10 man shooty squad that pretty much camped in the back with my cultists while the beasts did most of the work. 

[Muskie]

My plans haven't changed. We are busy at work, that is a broken record. I will pledge to paint a model, maybe even two models, four models would be a lot for me to paint. I am mainly focussed around painting and putting models that haven't been on the table in over a decade if not twenty years back on the table because I fight the long war. Irony Warriors of Nurgle until 11th Edition or the one person I play with gives up. I still think there are plenty of cool things in the book, plus you can add Plague Marines or Bezerkers or Plaguebearers or apparently Bloodletters. I've painted all those things. Plus you can do a knight or the Lord of Skulls. I'd need to devote like half a year to a model that large, someday...

 

May thigh knife chip and break or something. No one has tried all the combos and GW rebalances or releases new missions all the time. The optimal army list six months ago is not the optimal army list today, so I just paint what I buy, try to have fun. Looking cool is its own reward.

[Galron]

18 hours ago, Prot said:

I think most people picked "raiders" to be the competitive one.

 

I tried it... I'm very familiar with my Chaos, and I played against Nids and I couldn't kill anything. This is a brutal nids list to face. Most people I know really dislike playing this guy entirely because of his list. (He's a nice guy, just a brutal list). It's full of cheap monsters, and a brutal combination of too survivable and too much damage for the points.

 

I got clobbered by it using Raiders. I mean not even close. I just couldn't dent it, and the inability to push him back left my detachment in a vulnerable spot. Just way too many carnifex's, and those shooty monsters are 130 which is just absurd since that's what a Helbrute costs. That thing wipes about 6-8 Chosen a turn even with a 4++.

 

 

 

Sounds like my buddy and his list. 2 Hive tyrants, swarmlord, 3 of the big gun bugs, 3 of the -1 to hit if you are within 6" brain bugs with the blast d6+3 -3AP str 10 3 damage shots, a couple squads of zooanthropes and some assorted other odds and ends. When he sets up it looks like the offensive line for a football game and then "HIKE" and all those various shooty monsters with the anti-marine guns just move advance and shoot thanks to the hive tyrants, most are T10+, W10+, 4++ and they move a minimum of 9" on a bad advance roll. I call him up for a game when I need to practice a list for a tournament. 

[Prot]

5 hours ago, Galron said:

Sounds like my buddy and his list. 2 Hive tyrants, swarmlord, 3 of the big gun bugs, 3 of the -1 to hit if you are within 6" brain bugs with the blast d6+3 -3AP str 10 3 damage shots, a couple squads of zooanthropes and some assorted other odds and ends. When he sets up it looks like the offensive line for a football game and then "HIKE" and all those various shooty monsters with the anti-marine guns just move advance and shoot thanks to the hive tyrants, most are T10+, W10+, 4++ and they move a minimum of 9" on a bad advance roll. I call him up for a game when I need to practice a list for a tournament. 

 

Yup that's most of it. Plus a Norn Queen (?). It feels like everything has a special rule. -1 to hit, fights first, etc, etc..  Zoanthropes and the shooty stuff surrounded by the dirt cheap -1 to hit dudes. 

 

How are you beating this list with CSM?

 

As a side note, I will have my second game with Votlw tonight. Don't know what I'll face though.

[Galron]

Havent played it with CSM. Still trying to make my drop pod and vanguard space marines work lol. CSM are next on my to do list for vows 3 and 4. I am interested to see if and how they are going to nerf warp talons.

[Brother Nathan]

So final pre codex game done and sitting playing with list in fellhammer seige host.... does this do what i think...

Chaos termys for reroll hits on dark pact. Iron artifice for anti veichles/fortificatiors on a 4+ for all attacks. Termy sorceror...sure combiweapon devistatijg wounds combines nicely... but more interestingly infernal gaze d6 attacks. The focused one... devistating wounds... which in combination is tasty. Its fairly casino cannony but bare stats averages 2 mortals against a tank. But stacking the termy reroll and sustained 6s on a good shot count roll with rerolls to hit (not seen anything for wounds yet) 4+devistating. With counting sustained to break even on shotcount with rerolls6 shots should be 6 hits. 3 wounds ie 6 mortal wounds average. But possibly all wound and roll a 3 for damage is 18 damage. Absolute max... 6 shots become 12. 12 wounds triple to 36 mortals.... very very unlikey...but fun prospect right?definately gonna run it for giggles (more likely to kill itself mind but still...)

[Relic]

Expensive due to the bodyguard, but yes that works!

 

I'd probably just cheap out on a normal Sorcerer with it. 

 

Re the Nids - faced that kind of list as well. Narrow loss, but my force got wrecked. I basically played the primary and secondary game, killed off his smaller units and hoped to hang on long enough to win on pts. 

 

That said - my list was designed for that and still lost (narrowly). Not too surprising, vehicles and monsters are a pain for CSM imo. Reliable AT is an issue (at least for me).

[Brother Nathan]

I mean its a unit i was taking anyway... deepstriking termys for tough  objective stealers rerolling charges and reducing armour on select armoured unit...  so for me it cost 10 points. They easily paid for themselves in points in every game but could most of that have been done by a better unit... likely.  But  they did enough. Would a termy lord with bastion plate be better?  Possibly.  But fun options regardless

[Relic]

The idea is good and perhaps I am underestimating Terminators - the Sorcerer himself and the upgrade makes total sense to me. 

 

Terminators are a bit pricey and don't hit particularly hard, which is my concern with them.

 

[Karhedron]

Like loyalist Terminators, the lack of AP on the Stormbolters renders their shooting pretty marginal although they hit well enough in melee. I guess Dark Pacting for Lethal Hits makes the Storm Bolters a bit more relevant than Loyalist ones but still not great.

[Brother Nathan]

That is true but they are tough to kill. 2+ 4 plus t5 w3 is tough enough this edition... but in fellhammer anything stronger than str 5 at range is -1to wound and strat for a 5++ . Their shootings pretty pants  but combat is decent. Why is why iv been primarily using them  to take home objectives. 

 

Also for ap dont forget deathhex lasts from shooting phase til next movement round...

Edited June 16 by Brother Nathan

[Prot]

Maybe it's just me but I've just decided to pull Termies out of my lists for a while. I'm just not feeling like the points are worth it right now. I'm just getting these continuous matchups that seem to put me at a disadvantage with Termies.

 

My best use case was in Fellhammer. My best detachment so far is the Soulforged detachment. (Very good, lots of fun, but my results appear slightly better than the community at large.)

 

I think Raiders is popular for good reason. I had 2 games this week with it, and I got a turn 1 charge off with Chosen (led by Abaddon) in it and that was fun, but I lost against that monster Nid list that just wrecks face in my meta. 

 

Honestly I'm tempted to go full Red Corsairs, including Huron. I think for his points, and the re-deploy of 3 (?) units is entirely worth it. In all my games so far the one unit that does seem to continually keep me going is the Legionaries. There's a few good ways to use them, and when I compare them as Battleline compared to other marine battleline, they are super solid.

 

A lot of the other stuff is situational. I'm having trouble finding that 'must have' unit for this codex (outside of Legionaries). Most of it is situational... perfect example is Venom Crawlers are kind of borderline choices now, but put them in Soulforged detachment with Vashtor within 6" and you got a new level of destruction there for pretty cheap. 

 

Aside from legionaries the only thing making all my lists is Warp Talons. Just almost mandatory to take these. Not just because they can hit hard, but the scoring aspect is nearly mandatory for me. 

 

Unfortunately, (for me) it looks like the heavy cultist spam is taking the competitive scene. I'm not a fan, and I foresee GW getting heavy handed on Cultists again which will punish us all even though they're really only super relevant in one detachment. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

I'm enjoying Raiders mainly because it's just how I like to play. All Gas, No Brakes. In the games I played the additional AP really helped the units with low AP like Destructors, Defilers and Crawlers, even Legionaries Chainswords start to cut through tougher units

 

I've seen the light with Legionaries now and they've gone up massively in my standings. The MoE seems like a really good pick to go with Legionaires because needing the target to be under Starting Strength is a really easy thing to do for most targets. If the target is on an objective you're getting additional AP and Reroll wounds, for 160 points it's a great little cruise missile unit.

 

Huron is great IMO, he's got some great abilites. As you mention @Prot , the Redeploy is really handy, his OC ability really helps flip objectives from larger units and the move D6" after an enemy ends their move feels really good when it denies charges or move blocks, It's also one of the more sought after abilites from the Dread Reavers detatchment. He's no slouch in combat either, especially mixed in with Legionaries Rerolls. All for 80pts too! In a MSU Legionaries squad, it's another 160 pt cruise missile with more utility that the MoE.

 

If you're taking Legionaries it kind of feels neccessary to take a Rhino or two, they're great springboards with surprising shooting between Havoc Launchers, Combi Bolters and Firing Deck 2 I think they've chipped out a fair few wounds for me. Also most of our foot troops are just marines so will die very quickly and they mostly seem to be fire and forget units. Having a staging point to jump out of is very handy

[MadEdric]

So I got a game in this weekend and tried the Fellhammer Siege-Host. I left the majority of beasts out this time as the detachment seems more infantry orientated, I added more Legionaries and a brick of 10 terminators led by a Lord.  I was pleased how they worked, but truthfully, the detachment seems a bit generic compared to the Soulforged Warpack, 

In the Soulforge detachment, the detachment ability was in constant use everytime a beast attacked, it felt like I was really boosting them when I used the Debt and Tempting Addendum. It felt like I could turn the dial to 11 with them.

The Fellhammer never felt that way, they played just like the old index force, but without Mark benefits. Their detachment ability is rather lackluster, being only useful against shooting attacks. They really did not feel like a Siege Force in any way.

One strat that did get a lot of use was Brutal Attrition. 

What the detachment really felt like was a force meant to weather out shooting and have a couple of tricks to make assaulting them painful.  This can be greatly skewed by the army you face, against Orks you don't face much shooting, and a lot of times they could remove a unit, but at least with Brutal Attrition you could get around 3 MW on them.

The force still played well, as I think that Dark Pacts is one of the best Faction abilities out there right now. Even though I probably suffered around 20 MW from failed tests, the benefit it gives is substantial, especially with a Helbrute around to get both Sustained and Lethal hits. 

In all, I'd say Fellhammer is solid, but I think Soulforged was more fun to play.