Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis: The Devastation of Tallarn + New Models

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

29 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

I'm quite looking forward to seeing what they do with the campaign rules - found the missions in the rulebook get stale quite quickly as they just move the point you need to capture around the board.

I wonder if 'fog of war' will let everyone know what it feels like to be a Raven Guard player, even if for a short while?

And hoping that the battle honours/veteran rules won't add more bloat to a game already bursting at the seams..

Fog of War is nothing new as it was already present in SM2. This is how it works:

 

1. Player 2 leaves the room.

2. Player 1 deploys his entire army.

3. Player 1 takes a light/soft blanket and covers his deployment zone with it.

4. Player 2 enters the room and deploys his army.

5. The blanket is removed.

6. Done.

[Pacific81]

Yes that could well be it @Deus_Ex_Machina ! I believe the rulebook recommended you use the main gamebox to hide the view of your opponent's side of the table :)

[Matrindur]

Taken from the Goonhammer review there are no additional units so this is irrelevant

 

Spoiler

Taken from the The Devastation of Tallarn Army Cards description:

 

Quote

This 24-card pack contains:
– 2x Legiones Astartes Formation Cards
– 6x Legiones Astartes Detachment Datasheet Cards
– 3x Legiones Astartes Vehicle Commander Cards
– 2x Solar Auxilia Formation Cards
– 11x Solar Auxilia Detachment Datasheet Cards

 

For Astartes we currently only know about four detachments (Sabre, Sicaran Arcus and Punisher and Terrax) and even if they split up the Sabre too thats still only 5 while there are 6 cards here. They might have combined the Sicarans and doubled up to 6x but in the book itself the Battle Tank section has two pages while the Transport and Light Armour sections have one each which would only make sense if the Sicarans are split.
There are also the 3 Vehicle Commanders which I don't think we heard anything about before?

 

For SA we have 11 detachments while we know about 7 (Four LR versions and 3 Super heavy versions) so I also can't see any variation of combining and doubling up that would make sense and add up to 11 cards
For book pages we have three for the Heavy Armour and four for the Battle Tank sections.

 

In conclusion its very likely there are more kits coming

 

Edited August 3 by Matrindur

[Arendious]

On 7/31/2024 at 4:55 AM, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Fog of War is nothing new as it was already present in SM2. This is how it works:

 

1. Player 2 leaves the room.

2. Player 1 deploys his entire army.

3. Player 1 takes a light/soft blanket and covers his deployment zone with it.

4. Player 2 enters the room and deploys his army.

5. The blanket is removed.

6. Done.

How is infiltrate handled in that scenario? Both players deploy infiltrators after the blanket comes off?

 

I had envisioned FoW working more like Space Hulk contact icons. Beyond a certain range you place a token for each detachment, etc.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Is that blanket thing really a thing?

 

It sounds terrible for Terrain and model safety.

 

[Mandragola]

They have two suggestions for fog of war deployment. One is to put face down cards down for detachments and put the models there afterwards. The other is to put some kind of screen between the sides. There’s no mention of how to handle infiltrate. 
 

Actually though, hidden deployment is only an optional part of the fog of war rules. The main part is to limit all shooting (apart from barrage) to 18” range, and with penalties even then. 
 

Theres also the option of deadly fog, which is ludicrously deadly for infantry. 
 

I worked on a review of the book for Goonhammer at https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-legions-imperialis-the-devastation-of-tallarn/

 

Here’s our look at the new tanks. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-legions-imperialis-sicarans-russes-and-super-heavies/

 

I haven’t seen the cards. It’s possible there are cards for legion command tanks. These are Predators, Sicarans (any but the Arcus) and Kratos that get Command, inspire, master tactician and a 6++. Not a new model but a new way to use existing ones. Here’s my command Kratos. Need to paint some normal ones now for it to boss about. 
 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 8/4/2024 at 4:08 AM, Interrogator Stobz said:

Is that blanket thing really a thing?

 

It sounds terrible for Terrain and model safety.

 

That´s why you take a very light blanket.

 

On 8/3/2024 at 3:51 PM, Arendious said:

How is infiltrate handled in that scenario? Both players deploy infiltrators after the blanket comes off?

 

I had envisioned FoW working more like Space Hulk contact icons. Beyond a certain range you place a token for each detachment, etc.

I don´t remember any units from SM2 who had a rule akin to Infiltrate. Although this means that there wasn´t any to be found. If you wanted to quickly cross the board you had to rely on drop pods, moles, bikes and transport vehicles.

[irlLordy]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I worked on a review of the book for Goonhammer at https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-legions-imperialis-the-devastation-of-tallarn/

 

Here’s our look at the new tanks. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-legions-imperialis-sicarans-russes-and-super-heavies/
 

 

Thanks for the review. However, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the new SA superheavies in the tank article? I assume the default build here would be two shadowswords?

[Mandragola]

8 minutes ago, irlLordy said:

 

Thanks for the review. However, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the new SA superheavies in the tank article? I assume the default build here would be two shadowswords?

Yeah, bit of crossed wires with two authors I’m afraid. The superheavies should be added soon, with some guidance on magnetising them. 

[DuskRaider]

10 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Is that blanket thing really a thing?

 

It sounds terrible for Terrain and model safety.

 

We used to play a variation of Zone Mortalis back in the day where enemy units were represented by “blips” or empty, painted bases or tokens until they were in LoS. That way you had no idea what you were about to come into contact with around the corner… a unit of Breachers, a Contemptor or even a Primarch in some games. I would probably just do that with some bases and have numbers on them or something representing one of your units. You unveil it after the enemy is within 18” and vice versa. 

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Yeah, bit of crossed wires with two authors I’m afraid. The superheavies should be added soon, with some guidance on magnetising them. 

 I didn’t realize you were a part of the Goonhammer team. Love your folks’ AT articles, I was hoping you’d start doing them again soon. 

[Mandragola]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

I didn’t realize you were a part of the Goonhammer team. Love your folks’ AT articles, I was hoping you’d start doing them again soon. 

Yeah I’ve been writing there for a couple of years, mainly about heresy. The AT articles were great, but nothing to do with me. I hope there’s some new content for AT soon because it’s been a while without any.
 

There were some people playing AT at the GHO and I kind of wished I was, but went with a friend who only plays 28mm heresy. 

[Noserenda]

Yeah ive used blips, maps, cards, dice, barriers and even photos to do surprise deployments but never a blanket... Just the horror of everything spiky hooking on for a ride, this is warhammer... So many spikes! :D 

[Mandragola]

To be fair the book doesn’t suggest putting a blanket over your models. It would certainly come up with a few infantry stands stuck to it.

 

I've never tried this kind of thing myself. I guess you ought to have a look at the board before deployment to see where things like terrain and objectives are before putting any barrier up. I generally prefer the “blip” approach. Only issue is the sheer number of detachments you tend to have in LI, each requiring a blip. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

The blanket is superior to blips in every way. With blips you know that some kind of unit is there. With a blanket you know absolutely nothing. And no, there is ZERO chance of some model catching itself in the fabric, if you place the blanket in a precise fashion. You can even use supports under the blanket so that it won´t touch the units. And remember that when I speak of a blanket something more akin of a lightweight cloth is placed atop the board.

 

An alternative for placing the blanket onto the table would be for Player 1, who already placed his troops, to hold the blanket as a screen in front of his deployment zone while Player 2 places his army. If I remember correctly that was the way we have done it more than twenty years ago. 

[ZeroWolf]

17 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The blanket is superior to blips in every way. With blips you know that some kind of unit is there. With a blanket you know absolutely nothing. And no, there is ZERO chance of some model catching itself in the fabric, if you place the blanket in a precise fashion. You can even use supports under the blanket so that it won´t touch the units. And remember that when I speak of a blanket something more akin of a lightweight cloth is placed atop the board.

 

An alternative for placing the blanket onto the table would be for Player 1, who already placed his troops, to hold the blanket as a screen in front of his deployment zone while Player 2 places his army. If I remember correctly that was the way we have done it more than twenty years ago. 

If I recall correctly, this is what my brother and his friends did 

[Lord Marshal]

Just hire a magician for ten minutes. I'm sure they'd appreciate the work.

[Arendious]

4 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The blanket is superior to blips in every way. With blips you know that some kind of unit is there. With a blanket you know absolutely nothing.

Maybe it's the grognard in me, but the blips seem much more thematic and "realistic" than "A wild Auxilia Brigade appears!" 

 

Imperial sensor technology and battlefield awareness might not be particularly well developed, but we know they have enough to give, at minimum, rough positions for opposing units. 

[DuskRaider]

I don’t care if you know that something is there, it’s the fact that you don’t know what it is. It could be anything that you’re approaching and it may not work to your advantage… I know that if I were moving my Tactical Squad up the board toward a blip and it was a Reaver Titan, I wouldn’t be too thrilled. 

[tychobi]

Try a black trash bag as your "blanket". Should hide fine as long as no one peeks and won't drag or damage models easily either. 

[Pacific81]

Bearing in mind also that the minis are quite small..a few strategically placed boxes on your side of the table to conceal what the unit is while staying your own side or the table (actually think that is what we used to do 30 years ago with Epic Space Marine!)

[Mandragola]

Interesting to hear about these various screens working. Fair enough. I’ve never tried it but if it can be easily done then all is good. 
 

There’d be various ways to do infiltrators. You could give them written orders or else just place them after the screens are removed, kind of as normal. 
 

I’d reiterate though that this is an optional part of an optional rule, at least as far as this book goes. Players can obviously do this any time they want but in theory it’s meant to be paired with the 18” visibility from having thick (and potentially poisonous) fog everywhere. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

8 hours ago, Arendious said:

Maybe it's the grognard in me, but the blips seem much more thematic and "realistic" than "A wild Auxilia Brigade appears!" 

 

Imperial sensor technology and battlefield awareness might not be particularly well developed, but we know they have enough to give, at minimum, rough positions for opposing units. 

If you follow that route then forget about blips too. Imperial satellites have investigated the entire battlefield hours in advance and are still watching when the opposing forces will arrive. 

 

Fog of War is relevant when your different kinds of surveillance technology does not work for one reason or another. For example in the first HH book a particular storm was raging all across the planet "Murder" so that investigating it from orbit was impossible and also preventing communication to the ground. 

 

 

[Xenith]

15 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

For example in the first HH book a particular storm was raging all across the planet "Murder" so that investigating it from orbit was impossible and also preventing communication to the ground. 

 

The Megaarachnid also hid under blankets to conceal their presence from the Imperium. Horus and Sanguinius did not approve of this tactic. 

[apologist]

Given the model-centric and physical nature of GW's games, I can see why blips, chits, markers etc. weren't used. While you might get a more 'realistic' game by shifting blips around and gradually revealing things, it doesn't look half so nice as a board full of models. Shame, as concepts like this can really add to the immersion. 

 

Having said that, it would have been cool to have seen GW produce a sprue of cool-looking blips/markers/flags to support this release; along the lines of the Adeptus Titanicus accessories sprue. 

 

 

Replace the reactor track markers with (say) double-sided pieces that have blackletter codes on (A1, A2 etc.) would be an easy way to reference the Formation and Detachment a unit belonged to, and would have pulled double-duty for non Fog-of-War games in helping keep track of things like which Detachment(s) are in which Transports; what's in reserve etc.

 

They could do double duty by being the right size to cover the order tokens. The Fog-of-War mechanics could then have involved some granularity – getting close enough  with your own models could reveal the Detachment, but not reveal its order; while new units (like the Damocles command Rhino or Marauder Vigilant) could do the opposite.

 

The tokens could have the icons for the various Detachment types (Core, Support, Vanguard, Artillery) etc., to make for a halfway house. You know there's a Battle Tank detachment there, but not its exact composition.

[Marshal Rohr]

Me turning around to see a blanket laid over the table: Is that a Warmaster Titan or are you just happy to see me

 

 

 

heyoooooo