Another "Valrak has said this" post: Demons may get chopped into the cult marines armies

[Nephaston]

19 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this exact thing been a rumour/wishlist concept for a while now?

Pretty much. But it's also such a low hanging fruit that even a GW designer might come up with the idea. Or read it somewhere and fell in love with the idea.

 

21 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 because 10th is the most AoS like edition

which is hilarious, as right now AoS 4th is clearly inspired by 10th (and seemingly written and formatted better)

[crimsondave]

3 hours ago, LameBeard said:

I think this is how it was originally and it’s best it goes back this way. It allows a slightly larger range for the cult legions (some suffer from limited choices right now), and the mixed daemons never felt right to me. Happy for daemons and mortals to march together under one banner!

I remember being confused after being away for a while when I saw Khorne/Slaanesh and Tzeentch/Nurgle in the same armies.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Yeah - like how it used to be. I have never seen it any other way actually! But it makes sense to me. Never understood why they would be separate, seemed like more one dimensional armies then. But what dO I know..

[Orange Knight]

I'm not a big fan of Chaos Daemons. I don't feel their general aesthetic fits the 40k setting as well it does AoS.

 

The army has always been in a strange place on the tabletop, and is never really balanced correctly with other factions, or internally with it's own units and rules.

 

On top of everything, thematically it makes almost no sense that dedicated Tzeentch and Nurge Daemons would be seen on the same battlefield. The Chaos Gods war with each other more so than they do with the factions in the material universe.

 

I think I would be OK with the faction being re-worked in some way. I also get the impression that GW doesn't want armies to cross over into different gaming systems. They have cleaved the various HH units out of 40k despite the majority of the range being plastic for the 1st time. I imagine they want the Daemons in their current iteration to be an AoS army 1st and foremost.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Putting the Daemons into their matching Legions would make a lot of sense.

 

Personally I would actually like it if AoS and 40k had unique Daemons. I think the current models fit AoS well but some are a bit of a miss match for 40k. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

I would love for them to combine the daemons with the cult Legions. It's something I've wanted since I've came back in 8th, and one of the few things I thought AoS did better than 40k.

 

But this talk of daemons leaving 40k and some weird new 40k only daemons coming is just silly. Daemons have always been in 40k, I don't see them leaving anytime soon.

[Marshal Loss]

Back to the way things were, more or less - I'd be massively in favour of this

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I never really felt like demons of chaos felt like an actual army, especially since there’s so few options for each individual god of chaos.

 

 

[ThePenitentOne]

Yes, it's just excellent that Slaanesh will have to wait until the end of the edition for both their Marines and their Daemons- whoo hoo!

 

I know, there will be a daemons of Slaanesh PDF. Whatever.

 

I wonder how many daemon units will get cut.

[Nephaston]

10 minutes ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I wonder how many daemon units will get cut.

Blue Scribes and Skullmaster are afaik the only stuff left that isn't plastic or forge world resin, so they might not make it.

[Tokugawa]

Very bad if it's true. That means GW would jam unsalable daemon models in EVERY future heretics astartes box, especially the 2008 lesser daemons kits. 

 

Rules wise, as a DG player, since I already bring allies from this or that faction since 8th, I won't be too surprised. But the assumed "nurgle marine" book would possibly lose the access to all the "borrowed from CSM" stuff like predators. Can't be optimistic about it.

Edited May 20 by Tokugawa

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

22 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Very bad if it's true. That means GW would jam unsalable daemon models in EVERY future heretics astartes box, especially the 2008 lesser daemons kits. 

Idk what you mean by unsellable models.

I’ve seen a lot of demons players with a wide variety of kits/units.

[Mana]

Does anyone else collect a daemon army? Because I do. I want to be able to continue playing with a pure daemon army without having to add chaos marines to it. Don't care where the rules are, I want more choices, not less.

I also collect regular CSM and Death Guard, mixing armies with daemons is fine, like it happens now, but  I want to still be able to field just daemons as an army.

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

52 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Rules wise, as a DG player, since I already bring allies from this or that faction since 8th, I won't be too surprised. But the assumed "nurgle marine" book would possibly lose the access to all the "borrowed from CSM" stuff like predators. Can't be optimistic about it.

 

Eh, losing access to a 20+ year old model like the predator that GW doesn't seem to want to update anyways because it's tied to a firstborn kit isn't the end of the world. Plus, only DG are in that position. WE and TS did not get as many dedicated units and share more with the main codex, doubt they will lose everything.

 

Plus this is a rumor. Let's not worry or celebrate until it's official.

[Noserenda]

Having a separate codex makes perfect sense when they crossed over more and people were mostly fielding mixed daemons, if people arent doing that and the current army selection makes crossing over awkward then its probably better to split them down. If you are playing a narrative/open game you can always just mix them back up again anyway.

Worth mentioning that we will soon have all 4 Chaos gods in their own codexes too which has probably held it up so as not to block Slannesh daemons. Then just Belakor, Vashtorr and maybe a generic daemon unit in the Chaos marine codex.

Nothing unfluffy about mixed daemons either, lots, possibly even most daemonic incursions are just a cult or incautious psyker ripping open a warp portal and all the nearby daemons popping out for a jaunt/takeout. Sure theyll collapse into infighting at some point but right now its all good :D 

[Dark Shepherd]

It seems counterintuitive to me for GW to junk a codex that they sell a lot of copies of

 

Low sellers like Harlequins and Deathwatch I can understand or merging codexes with very low sheet counts like Knights

 

That said IF we are getting some or all of Emperors Children, Imperial Agents, Dark Mech, Slaves to Darkness, I can see why theyd want to reduce the studios workload/number of codexes/obligation for new models (which could also crossover with separate models for separate systems)

[Emperor Ming]

GW will absolutely shelve codex's that aint pulling the money in

 

There is already a history of them doing that

[MithrilForge]

@Emperor Ming- unfortunately I have to agree with you here . 
GW only does things nowadays that 100% make them money, not just things a small fan base want… 

I have a fair few boxes of Khorne daemons patrol and starter boxes waiting for either being able to join some world eaters or finally being used as a Warhammer Fantasy army  I wonder how the dice will fall on this… I’ve had em long enough what’s another year of waiting 

 

M 

[Lord_Ikka]

Moving daemons from their own codex to incorporate into all of the various "cult" Legion codices makes sense. Gives each Legion a large amount of extra units- ones that already exist and don't have to have time/effort/money invested into the way you need to do to create new unit options. Only real issue is Belakor, but I wouldn't put it past GW to just release a detachment for him and the Slaves of Darkness in the balance dataslate just like they did with the new Druhkari detachment. That would cover the detachment, and just have Belakor's datasheet put in every cult Legion codex to make sure he can be used, since he is undivided he would be appropriate to add into any of the codices. 

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Only real issue is Belakor, but I wouldn't put it past GW to just release a detachment for him and the Slaves of Darkness in the balance dataslate just like they did with the new Druhkari detachment.

Another candidate is the Chaos knight codex, since Be'lakor manages to call an entire knight household his own. Afaik House Korvax is also the only named group that serves Be'lakor, as any other of his followers are usually just deputized Marine Legions or Daemons. Maybe even an opportunity to reintroduce furies as dedicated undivided fodder.

[Arkzein]

I'm all for it, the cult ranges (and EC will be no different) are anaemic and would bump them up to feeling like a full faction and differentiate them further from CSM. (arguably they already are though in playstyles, opens up more possibilities and balance options for each though). Daemons by themselves never really made sense, particularly all lumped in together. The ally options have been on and off a shambles with things pointed for best use rather than just for daemons and faction daemon soup being sidelined / very specific.

 

Leans into GW separating kits so you can only use them for one thing as well (though would have thought the hard business reason for all the Chaos Soup was along the lines of "well I have 500 points already, may as well start a second army" which is would break). As someone noted above could be you have cults with daemons and a Daemon codex, able to balance each separately then without the clunky allies rules and still leaving open to soft entry to a second or third army.

 

On Thousands sons, where else can they really go with them? More Tzaangors? Hard to do much else with marines when most are dust and might make sense now why they never got a second waves and WEs were so thin. DG really aren't much better when you take all their characters out really.

 

Finally having all 4 cult factions out makes it more possible. Per the Vid maybe not long to wait to find out though. TBH though that's the 4th or 5th date for EC floating around. If they are getting closed you'd expect some rumours to get firmed up shortly as production windows loom.

 

Would look forward to some funky rules summoning units off Icons within 6 inches when doing X task and the like again, not to mention just the theme of a mixed horde of cult troops and daemons.

 

GW flip flopping between editions is very GW after all as well. Looking forward to Furies and Hounds in 11th edition CSM.

Edited May 21 by Arkzein

[Wormwoods]

Sounds good to me. Now fold the Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and Custodes into that upcoming Imperial Agents book. Some things are better as additions to other forces.

[ZeroWolf]

6 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

Sounds good to me. Now fold the Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and Custodes into that upcoming Imperial Agents book. Some things are better as additions to other forces.

Given that custodes literally just got a codex, I think you'd be waiting a while for that  To be honest, Death Watch are the only ones that I could see being folded into the AoI codex. Grey Knights are still popular enough I believe to warrant being their own dedicated force. Won't have long to find out on that front though what's happening.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I am all for the different Chaos Gods not liking each other get some kind of Animosity towards each other, back too..

 

I actually don´t remember how it worked in 3rd Ed, when the Demons popped in.. But I liked the mix. In 2nd Ed you earned the summoning by various things. Doing wounds for Nurgle? Close comabt kills for Khorne? Cool but a but unbalanced as getting those close combat kills (if I even remember that right) would happen later...

 

But the old thing with mixed Chaos Space Marines armies - ie different Legions, under a powerful Chaos Lord. Or justa  pure Legion - supported by summoned demons is what thematically I feel is the coolest.

Seems like going all demon was another way to sell more models? But I was not really around when that happened.. 5th Ed?

I´ve just read the White Dwarfs a little bit, from that era...

 

it is both weird and cool going back and forth on how it works. One edition being pure demons, the other mixed, in various ways. But I think it is being done a little too much. Messes peoples expensive armies just too much. Getting fresh Codice is one thing, just screw collections up to sell the same things again - is another.. In my humble opinion..

 

Glad i have some old buddies that can and want to play those older editions now and then.. But they are the ones playing Chaos, i just banish them so..

[Mogger351]

GW will never get daemons right for the customer base imo. They're marketing and making the army as chaos daemons, which I'm fairly convinced a lot of people read as "4 chaos daemons god armies in a book". 

 

There's a long history of people complaining for more units in mono god armies because they lack options, which maybe they do, but they're 1/4 of the army GW is selling you.

 

The rules have struggled between herding cats into using undivided forces, to actively punishing using more than one god.

 

Honestly I don't think there is a "good" option. An allies codex could work but obviously some people own full armies and are passionate about then. Some people will have an undivided force they like which would struggle if you split them into god books. GW are backed right into a corner of their own making here.

 

Nevertheless, I'd say Daemons as a stand alone faction have been the most dysfunctional and awkward, it needs something to happen.