The BA ABC List in 10th?

[Jolemai]

ABC (Always Be Charging) type lists are often characterised by jump units. Throughout the editions, we've seen Nipplewing or large Death Company style lists, perhaps even variants of Blood Rodeo types, all which focus on forward pressure and getting the charge first and foremost.

 

In 10th edition, how would you go about running this style of list? What are the pitfalls to doing so? What units and leader combos come to mind? 

[Karhedron]

Jump Assault Intercessors are priced to move since the latest price cut and are great in an SoS detachment. 2-3 MWs, 20 S6 attacks on the Charge and 4 S10 power fist attacks are pretty good for 80 points. Adding a Jump Captain gives them an extra +1S and adds some more power fist attacks. Jump Sanguinary Priests improve the AP by 1 and grant a 5+++ but are fairly pricy for low hitting power.

 

VanVets are basically improved JAIs with +1S and the option to take either a Storm Shield for the 4++ or a pistol (probably inferno pistol for added armour busting). They cost an extra 5ppm over JAIs so use sparingly.

 

Death Company are good and can still take all Power Fists and Inferno Pistols. 10 fully loaded jump DC led by Lemartes are terrifying to behold. Foot DC in a Rhino are also an interesting option that some players have made good use of.

 

Even with the latest price cuts, I am not convinced about Sanguinary Guard. If you take them, put your Warlord with them as -1 to Hit and -1 to Wound on all incoming attacks helps mitigate their relative fragility. Your options for a Leader are either a Jump Captain or Dante.

 

Land Raiders are pretty good in 10th edition so ABC lists can potentially make use of other interesting units like Bladeguard Veterans. Personally I favour either the classic LR (lascannons do decent anti-tank work) or the Redeemer for the fearsome overwatch. The Crusader is slightly less impressive although you can potentially give up to 3 MSUs a ride and launch them at the enemy.

 

Lastly there is the Sanguinor. Whilst pricey, his ability to pop up and either plug gaps in your lines or exploit gaps in your opponent's is really good.

 

With all the good ABC units we have, the challenge is making sure that we don't skimp on necessary anti-tank.

 

With the meta looking like it is pivoting towards hordes, BA ABC lists have enough massed S6 attacks on the charge to chew through even large Ork hordes. Making sure you don't get caught flat-footed and counter-charged though is a challenge.

 

I guess a basic ABC list would look something like this:

 

140 Sanguinor

120 Lemartes

100 Jump Sanguinary Priest

85  Jump Captain with power fist

70 Lieutenant with Combi Weapon

 

280 10 Jump DC with Fists and Inferno Pistols (Lemartes goes here)

210 10 Vanguard Vets (5 Shields, 5 Inferno Pistols, Captain and Priest go here)

80 Jump Assault Intercessors with Power Fist Serg

80 Jump Assault Intercessors with Power Fist Serg

80 Jump Assault Intercessors with Power Fist Serg

100 5 Infiltrators (to clear landing zone if you want to DS or hug backfield Objective)

 

That comes to 1345 points which still leaves 650 for a combination of anti-tank and utility pieces. 

[Karhedron]

Mikey Herbert took first place in the recent South Yorkshire GT with this SOS list. Definitely ABC.

 

CHARACTERS

95 Captain with Jump Pack Warlord, Relic Shield, TH, Enhancements: Icon of the Angel
80 Captain PP + PF
80 Captain PP + PF
120 Lemartes
100 Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack
140 The Sanguinor

 

BATTLELINE

75 Assault Intercessor Squad HF TH
75 Assault Intercessor Squad HF TH

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

80 Impulsor Shield Dome
80 Impulsor Shield Dome

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

80 Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs PF 2 x PP
80 Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs PF 2 x PP

125 Baal Predator Flamestorm, 2 x HF
125 Baal Predator Flamestorm, 2 x HF

280 Death Company Marines with Jump Packs  x 10 (280 Points) IP + PF
65 Scout Squad ML, SRm 2 x Shotguns
210 Vanguard Veteran Squad with Jump Packs x10 (210 Points) Storm Shields

100 Callidus Assassin

[jaxom]

I'm guessing the 2 PP&PF captains are there for Finest Hour?

[Karhedron]

10 minutes ago, jaxom said:

I'm guessing the 2 PP&PF captains are there for Finest Hour?

 

I assume so too. They add quite a bit of muscle to the AI squads. Plus they can give them a free Red Rampage or AoC if no one else need the ability in a given turn.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Plus they can give them a free Red Rampage or AoC if no one else need the ability in a given turn.

This is what makes me hesitant about multiple captains (aside from narrative). I feel like I’m not getting the points if not using the Rites of Battle.

[Karhedron]

15 minutes ago, jaxom said:

This is what makes me hesitant about multiple captains (aside from narrative). I feel like I’m not getting the points if not using the Rites of Battle.

 

Multiple Captains do offer slightly diminishing returns but even so, Finest Hour or Angel's Wrath are good bonuses in their own right. Multiple Captains means you have much improved hitting power and you can apply RoB wherever you need it rather than being limited to one squad or losing it entirely if your single Captain gets squished.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Jump intercessors with a jump chappy can put out a lot of MW on the charge. 
 

That’s a combo I wouldn’t sleep on.

[Karhedron]

I think people have missed the potential of the Jump Chappy. Extra MWs stack with those the AIs generate on the Charge and the +1 to Wound on all those S6 attacks is pretty good. He is cheaper than a Jump Captain too although not quite as hitty.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I think people have missed the potential of the Jump Chappy. Extra MWs stack with those the AIs generate on the Charge and the +1 to Wound on all those S6 attacks is pretty good. He is cheaper than a Jump Captain too although not quite as hitty.

Plus the chappy’s MWs come in every round of combat.

 

my last marine game I did split the two up to spread the MWs around, but combined I think they could truly wreck a lot of stuff.

 

edit

 

it would be extremely good rolling but, a 5 man squad of JAIs and a JC could damn near wipe a 5 man squad of standard marines before even throwing a single punch, and damn near wipe a 3 man squad of gravis marines as well.

Edited May 30 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Brother Raul]

7 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I think people have missed the potential of the Jump Chappy. Extra MWs stack with those the AIs generate on the Charge and the +1 to Wound on all those S6 attacks is pretty good. He is cheaper than a Jump Captain too although not quite as hitty.

Chappy makes the MW a unit to death then consolidate into another unit to fight Strat more viable. People don't see it coming particularly if there's other more pointy JP units in the fight.

 

The JPAI are definitely a great addition to any ABC list, not that they have been particularly buffed but with the eminent nerfing of DC it's almost a buff. I'd be hesitant to add a Sanguinary priest (despite how much it helps them) but think Captain escorts or bare bones squads for jobs are a great use. OC make them just different to DCJP who definitely hit harder and are more durable still.

 

However the question is about ABC lists and think that's where JPAI shine.

 

AI on foot get the punchy foot captain but you loose a lot of the strengths of the JP versions in a ABC list and become more predictable. Needs a transport too. I'd also argue that Mephiston maybe better and might be the exception to this rule in a ABC list as he absolutely needs a a foot AI squad.

 

The transports are also the points for another dreadnaught which cannot hurt a ABC list.

 

IMO the JPAI in a ABC list are opportunistic chargers that generate threat bubble and give you some OC around the board as well as secondary options. Also delaying charges; if you want to hold something big up these guys are great. Cheap unit for heroic intervention too, looking at you warp talons.

 

Probably why a Captain or Chappy would be better elsewhere.

 

You want to save your strats for bigger units in a ABC list and I'd argue a terminator Captain and a JP Captain with Sanguinary guard would be a better use.

 

Think one of DCs main strengths going forward might be multi charging and this is definitely bigger squad dynamics territory but something ABC lists should be looking to do.

 

Terminators with rapid ingress are great for ABC lists also. 10 of them with a librarian can also multi charge and Hammernators too. Close to fail safe charges are you friend, as always, and double in ABC lists.

 

Still waiting on Primaris VV or Sanguinary guard data but it would have to be bad to not make a ABC list. Sanguinary guard points drop recently spices thing up, however these are units you want to spend time or resources into getting their charges off.

 

Nothing beats a ABC list faster than a 4 failed turn 2 charges so being realistic is important.  No point trying to get 5 9-12" charges off turn 2 when you could sacrifice a couple of units to make 3 6" charges turn 3.

 

A lot of armies have a squad tactics Strat or uppys/downys so the best thing about a ABC list is you draw those out early but need to maximise the number of your units charging early to apply that CP/1 use per turn pressure.

 

Finally armour. I am a Baal predator fan as it's got that distraction Carnifex thing going for it. IMO a good ABC list has hard threat priority at its core and dreadnaughts and Baal predators are essential for this.

 

Tank shock has made armour more relevant in this role so even if it's reduced to steaming slurry turn 1 or 2 it's still helping JP assault units position for charging and survive or adding to the ABC list via Tank Shock.

 

I've recently used Overwatch and Tank Shock to brutal effect with the Baal.

 

The overwatch on the Baal predator and DC dread for anti counter charge measures is also very handy (roasted warp talons) as ABC lists should carry some counter for a counter charge as they are very effective against ABC lists.

 

Also why the job monkey JPAI are so handy (area denial, screening and heroic intervention using the unit you don't need to charge Mortarion with next turn).

 

I am Brother Brockman and that's my 2 imperial credit on 10rh edition ABC lists.

[Brother Raul]

1 last point disrupting units like the incursor squad are also great for ABC lists. I've kind of slept on the state of imperial armaments and didn't realise the standard issue for a Primaris these days is a spork.

 

Paired combat blades in SOS on incursors with their haywire mine and the scout move are great synergy with a ABC list.