Games Workshop has once again dropped the ball with Terminators.

[Orange Knight]

We should consider that 40k is primarily a shooting game (nothing wrong with that) and often times the successful melee units are a combination of cheap and/or fast, or they can access cheaper transports.

 

I will continue to lament the missed opportuny to redesign the 40k Terminators to follow on in the footsteps of the great units that exist in 30k. Eg:

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

On 5/30/2024 at 4:15 PM, jaxom said:

What would I do if I were GW tweaking Terminator rules?

Terminators are the elite of the elite. They deploy to take on the largest threats of an enemy force. Their skills are unmatched and complimented with weapons and armour inhabited by the most ancient and bellicose of machine-spirits.

1. Add the Sustained Hits 1 rule to their Storm Bolter profile.
2. Add the Lethal Hits 1 rule to their Power fist profile and/or increase Power fist strength to 10.
3. Add Sustained Hits 2 to their Lightning claw profile
4. Change the Fury of the First rule to read, "Each time a model in this unit makes an attack that targets your Oath of Moment target, an unmodified roll of 5+ scores a Critical Hit and an unmodified wound roll of 5+ scores a Critical Wound."
5. Replace Terminator Assault with Fury of the First.

 

Gotta admit, I'd hate to see Terminators end up looking like this, if only because us Chaos factions will never get a Terminator rework that's anything close to this since there's nothing in our armies competing against Termies like the Gravis Aggressor does.

Our terminators would inevitably be pushed further into the dirt whilst the Loyalist Terminator still wouldn't see much play even after the changes because no matter the stats on the datasheet, a unit of Terminators will never meet the expectations we as a community set out for them.

 

On another note, IMO Terminators "fit" better when they actually have an Elites role to fill.

With 10th ed boiling all the unit "types" down to just HQ, Battleline, Dedicated Transports and "Other units", Terminators are competing against literally everything else in the army rather than just the other "Elites".

Edited June 1 by Indy Techwisp
Added a new point

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Gotta admit, I'd hate to see Terminators end up looking like this, if only because us Chaos factions will never get a Terminator rework that's anything close to this since there's nothing in our armies competing against Termies like the Gravis Aggressor does.

Our terminators would inevitably be pushed further into the dirt whilst the Loyalist Terminator still wouldn't see much play even after the changes because no matter the stats on the datasheet, a unit of Terminators will never meet the expectations we as a community set out for them.

 

On another note, IMO Terminators "fit" better when they actually have an Elites role to fill.

With 10th ed boiling all the unit "types" down to just HQ, Battleline, Dedicated Transports and "Other units", Terminators are competing against literally everything else in the army rather than just the other "Elites".

I wouldn’t be surprised if chaos got some sort of possessed terminators or something similar next edition.

[Indy Techwisp]

26 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if chaos got some sort of possessed terminators or something similar next edition.

 

Base CSM probably will eventually, but I doubt the Cult factions will (except DG, since they already have Possessed Terminators iirc).

 

For Loyalists tho, other than Assault Terminators getting an updated datasheet and new models, I doubt base LSM will get any changes to Terminators at all until 11th.

What would help Terminators in 10th would be some kind of Detachment specific Boost for running a Termie focused force, but that would ideally be the 1st company Detachment and as we can see it hasn't done that.

I guess LSM will need to hold out for a second codex somewhen around the halfway mark of the edition...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I also want to say I think the T difference between gravis and TDA is important to game play.

 

at T5 2+/4++ 3W targeting terminators with high S, high AP weapons is not necessarily the best way to see return on investment in terms of damage.

 

meanwhile T6 3+ 3W means you need higher S to be effective, and high AP weapons are very good against them.

 

terminators are more likely to tank a few lascannon shots unscathed, but a mass of lasgun shots is likely to sneak some damage through.

 

conversely if a lascannon hits it will probably fry a gravis marine, and lasguns are less likely to do any damage.

 

a krak missile/grenade might be the better option for gravis, while the frag better for terminators.

 

if terminators go to T6 or higher I think it really hinders any sort of balance between aggressors and terminators 

[casb1965]

Will be interesting to see how GW deal with Terminators when they bring out the GK codex, at the moment using tons of PA Strike squads seems to work more effectively. 

[jaxom]

6 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

if only because us Chaos factions will never get a Terminator rework that's anything close to this since there's nothing in our armies competing against Termies like the Gravis Aggressor does.

If I were in charge, I’d give them some parity. Make a theme of 5+ crits; so Chaos terminators crit on 5+ when they use Dark Pact. Loses some efficacy in Pactbound Zealots, but still good.

[Indy Techwisp]

14 minutes ago, jaxom said:

If I were in charge, I’d give them some parity. Make a theme of 5+ crits; so Chaos terminators crit on 5+ when they use Dark Pact. Loses some efficacy in Pactbound Zealots, but still good.

 

Sounds like a pretty good solution for CSM Terminators, but it would leave the Cult Terminators behind since we don't have a unifying "Dark Pacts"-like faction ability for it to key off.

(Well, technically TSons and WE do have one, but Cabal and Blood points are already stretched thin as-is without needing to squeeze in a 5+ Crits for Termies option.)
 

Also, somewhat unrelated, but Grey Knight's Terminators are a prime example as to why a "standardised" Terminator buff across the board would cause issues.
While it'd be nice for the LSM Termies, CSM Termies and occasional Cult Termies to get what is mechanically a slight buff, Grey Knights comp would almost immediately pivot to full Termie swarms and suddenly be hell-on-earth to deal with.

 

Realistically, it needs to be a case-by-case basis for each Terminator.
Something I highly doubt GW would do.

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Sounds like a pretty good solution for CSM Terminators, but it would leave the Cult Terminators behind since we don't have a unifying "Dark Pacts"-like faction ability for it to key off.

*SNIP*

Also, somewhat unrelated, but Grey Knight's Terminators are a prime example as to why a "standardised" Terminator buff across the board would cause issues.
While it'd be nice for the LSM Termies, CSM Termies and occasional Cult Termies to get what is mechanically a slight buff, Grey Knights comp would almost immediately pivot to full Termie swarms and suddenly be hell-on-earth to deal with.

 

Realistically, it needs to be a case-by-case basis for each Terminator.
Something I highly doubt GW would do.

That makes a lot of sense for Cult and GK terminators. I think they're also all different from SM and CSM terminators because they make up a larger percentage of their faction's units. They don't need to stand out in the same way because (as far as I'm aware) nothing really competes for the same role in those armies. Deathshroud and Blightlords each have a unique thing going, Scarab Occult are the anvil unit of TSons, etc.

[Beta galactosidase]

When you're in a Terminator squad, there's a Sergeant, a gunner, and up to three other brothers.  That's what it's like to be one of those characters, or models come to life.  The squad has one weapon that can expend all its ammunition very quickly, so the gunner needs other brothers to cover him with slower firing weapons that have lighter, higher quantity ammunition. That's a interaction where each of the characters has a role, literally plays a role.

 

The purpose of the rules is to enable the models to do that.  If 40k 10th edition doesn't give you environment for what the characters experience in-universe, then you need a different game.   A 10th Ed marine army has about 55 models, and in the background Marines fight in battles that size all the time with the fireteam-style terminator squads.  The game certainly isn't too big for fire teams, the rules are just wrong.

 

 

[casb1965]

11 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Also, somewhat unrelated, but Grey Knight's Terminators are a prime example as to why a "standardised" Terminator buff across the board would cause issues.
While it'd be nice for the LSM Termies, CSM Termies and occasional Cult Termies to get what is mechanically a slight buff, Grey Knights comp would almost immediately pivot to full Termie swarms and suddenly be hell-on-earth to deal with.

 

Realistically, it needs to be a case-by-case basis for each Terminator.
Something I highly doubt GW would do.

 

Totally agree, Terminators should not be standard across all armies.

I think the problem with GK Termies is the lack of choice amongst its units, if you over buff the Termies then the other units won't get used. I guess we'll find out how GW fix that when the codex comes out 1 week before 11th ed is released 

[Evil Eye]

I realized, there's another way GW dropped the ball with Terminators- they made them too big!

 

Hear me out. I don't have any of the new Termies, and my Primaris supplies are pretty small, but I was comparing some old and new scaled Marine models and I noticed something weird going on. To show what I mean, first of all here's a comparison of the old and new loyal Terminators, along with a Chaos one.

The new Terminator is a full head taller than the older design! The Chaos Terminator, by contrast, stands only slightly taller than the old Assault Termie, though he does have much better proportions overall.

 

Now I appreciate these aren't the best photos ever, but anyway. I was comparing my converted truescale "de-Primaris'd" Captain to the wonderful metal Terminator Chaplain and realized their heads come to almost the exact same height, with minimal proportional differences. Here they are standing next to a 100% oldscale Sternguard.

The Chaplain is slightly set back too, which makes him look slightly shorter than he actually is in this photo!

Now, I know Terminator armour is bulkier than regular power armour, but unless platform heels are part of the blessed panoply of TDA's subsystems, it shouldn't be making you a full head taller than a regular Marine. It can't even be handwaved as Primaris size increase either; the Captain is directly based on a Primaris miniature! (This also goes some way to confirming my feelings that the in-universe height difference between Primaris and Firstborn is negligible, and certainly not a full head, and that Primaris miniatures are the size regular Marines are supposed to be).

 

Now I was wondering if the Chaplain was considerably bigger than a regular Terminator, so I compared him to a plastic oldscale Terminator (with 3D printed head). As it turned out, whilst the Chaplain is slightly taller than his plastic brother, most of the height difference is in the posture, notably the "power squat" of the plastic one.

And just for ref, here's the same Terminator next to another oldscale power-armour veteran.

Now obviously the plastic one has clearly stylized proportions and posture, primarily to accommodate the fully modular construction, which the three-piece metal Chaplain lacks and thus has far better posture (and slightly improved overall proportions). But as you can see, it's not THAT far off.

 

Finally, I decided to compare the Chaplain to a new-scale Chaos Marine (a 3D printed one admittedly, but it's the same size as a modern "true-scaled" CSM or Primaris anyway so he'll do). And once again, the Chaplain was almost the exact same size.

 

From looking at this, obviously GW thinks that Terminator armour gives a full extra head of height...unless you're a traitor? it's possible they were following tradition from how the old Terminators were considerably bigger than old Marines, but that was the same with Chaos back in the day, and their Terminators are now much the same height as power-armour-clad Marines (which I personally prefer).

 

Now, Space Marine scale has always been all over the place, but we seem to have three separate scales now, if we work logically and consider a member of a "scale" to be representative of an average-height Marine.

1: Classic scale (old Firstborn, including now-very-old metal Terminators).

2: "True" scale (Primaris, Chaos Marines and Chaos Terminators, the very few Firstborn models to be made post-Primaris, older plastic Terminators and their then-contemporary metal characters such as the Chaplain in the pics).

3: "HUEG LIEK XBOX" scale (new Terminators).

 

Classic scale is obviously too small to be the "correct" scale, even if I personally like it. True-scale encompasses the majority of modern (post-Primaris) Marines, with the solitary exception of newer Terminators, which are massively larger than any other Marine, loyal or traitor, in the range.

 

So, assuming you care enough about scale to want a consistently true-scaled Marine army, irrespective of Primaris/Firstborn debates, modern Terminators are too damn big! Now, obviously, converting older Terminators to be a bit better proportioned isn't a massive burden, especially with 3D printing being a thing, but if we're talking about what GW could do about it, there's a few options if they gave a Jokaero's about having everything be properly scaled (they don't).

1: Replace the new Terminators with newer, smaller ones more in line with the Chaos Terminators (extremely unlikely but ironically probably the best option).

2: Replace the Chaos Terminators with similarly inflated new models (please no)

3: Replace the entire Primaris range AGAIN to make them even bigger than they already were to reinforce the "Primaris are big!" scale creep and argh NO NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE EMPEROR NO

 

...Ahem. Lost my composure there.

 

Anyway. Point is, new Terminators. Too fething big. Nice models, but drastically oversized.

 

God, I hate scale creep.

[MoriyaSchism]

53 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Classic scale is obviously too small to be the "correct" scale, even if I personally like it. True-scale encompasses the majority of modern (post-Primaris) Marines, with the solitary exception of newer Terminators, which are massively larger than any other Marine, loyal or traitor, in the range.

 

So, assuming you care enough about scale to want a consistently true-scaled Marine army, irrespective of Primaris/Firstborn debates, modern Terminators are too damn big! Now, obviously, converting older Terminators to be a bit better proportioned isn't a massive burden, especially with 3D printing being a thing, but if we're talking about what GW could do about it, there's a few options if they gave a Jokaero's about having everything be properly scaled (they don't).

1: Replace the new Terminators with newer, smaller ones more in line with the Chaos Terminators (extremely unlikely but ironically probably the best option).

2: Replace the Chaos Terminators with similarly inflated new models (please no)

3: Replace the entire Primaris range AGAIN to make them even bigger than they already were to reinforce the "Primaris are big!" scale creep and argh NO NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE EMPEROR NO

 

...Ahem. Lost my composure there.

 

Anyway. Point is, new Terminators. Too fething big. Nice models, but drastically oversized.

 

God, I hate scale creep.

To give my two cents in regards to scale and scale creep. I think all factions that feature Space Marines should ultimately be the same scale going forward and I think it was a mistake to make non-cult Chaos Marines slightly shorter than the Primaris Marines. The Plague Marines in Dark Imperium for example are almost the same size and their Terminator Lord is almost exactly the same size as one of the modern Indomitus Terminators. It's really strange they decided to make Chaos Marines shorter after the Death Guard release. As for the in universe height concerns, I ignore that part and my point of reference is the 30th anniversary art they did for White Dwarf with the Crimson Fists in which the Primaris and the regular Tactical Marines look about the same.

 

If you compare the current batch of Indomitus Terminators to Aggressors and Terminator conversions based on Aggressor and Heavy Intercessor bodies you'll see that they are about the same size. A standard Gravis armour Marine is about a whole head taller than a standard Primaris unit. I think this time around I believe the design studio was inspired by the conversions people were doing online. I think you're better off converting Chaos Terminators with the new bodies. Personally I think current Chaos Terminators look good in terms of style but their proportions and arm positioning are really bad. Compare the Chaos Terminator to that old Terminator Chaplain and you'll see what I mean. The current Loyalist Space Marine Indomitus Terminators are probably the best iteration of Terminators they have done so far. My reasoning for this is that they are seemingly the most modular kit I have seen so far when combined with 3D printing. Every single armoured plate on them can be replaced and there are STLs out there for all manner chapters. You can assemble the body as an empty frame missing most of its armour plates and you can replace them with anything, you could even graft armour plates carved off the Chaos Terminators on them.

[jaxom]

[DemonGSides]

Yeah that whole screed is just a lot of "I've got old models and don't like new stuff."

New terminators are great scale correction compared to old terminators.  Terminators should look massive and impressive.  They're also almost exactly in line with the Death Guard terminator in size; deathshroud actually stand slightly taller due to the accoutrement, but their heads are in similar places.  Chaos Terminators by themselves are also very similar; not even a full head shorter, but with more pronounced posing in the stride.  Heads are roughly the same size, as are arms, between the two new kits.

Chaos Terminators are just suffering from the posing issues of the old assault terminators.  They're all mid-stride or almost crouching, whereas the new terminators are Guts from Berserk shuffling forward menacingly.

Definitely didn't need a full post comparing a whole bunch of things that aren't a Chaos Terminator OR the new Terminator lmao

 

2 seconds of googling found this; definitely a little bit smaller, but not egregiously so, and nowhere near the levels of old terminators vs current terminators.  Factor in that the new terminators look good in scale with other Marine stuff, I think new terminators are pretty much perfect.  Only issue is lack of oath papers.

 

Edited June 13 by DemonGSides

[AutumnEffect]

There's another option if you really, really can't stand the chaos termis looking a tad smaller: convert them.

 

You can buy a Leviathan loyalist Terminator body for approximately $7.00 USD on ebay at time of posting. Buy a box of Chaos Terminators and slap their shoulder pads, weapon arms, heads and fence posts on the loyalist bodies. Defile/Cover up/Remove the Crux or any loyalist bits you don't like.

 

It would be $35 for 5 but hey, that's not really that crazy and you've got your bigger termies and it's an easy peezy conversion. You might even be able to sell off or make use of your unused Chaos Terminator bodies or get a bulk deal if you buy multiple bodies (also saw that as an option on ebay) which'll recoup some cost in the conversion.

 

Edited June 14 by AutumnEffect

[Nephaston]

The new termie kit is surprisingly easy to create bits for (if one has the knowhow and tools for it) and one of my go-tos is steadily increasing their repertoire. For example this is what they offer for converting termies to look proper in 30k.

 

And as of a couple days ago they got around to making fist bits.

 

Even including heresy kosher variations, stripes, checkers, trim, studs, spikes, etc.

 

Now sadly it's either playing the waiting game or directly commissioning them if we want fiitting chaos parts (I know I want them) but so far I never managed to snag a commission slot.

[Rhavien]

New loyalist Termis are in scale to new Primaris Marines. They are supposed to be taller than their brothers in power armor. No need comparing them to a nearly two decades old chaplain. 

Don't get me wrong. I also like and own those old models and I'll continue to use them beside my new ones, but I won't complain about them being slightly bigger and have legs that could actually work. My plan is to give them a slight hight boost through a rebase and call it a day. 

[Paladin777]

I never understood why termies should be any taller at the face than regular marines in power armor, tbh.

Edited June 15 by Paladin777

[Tacitus]

On 6/12/2024 at 1:06 PM, Evil Eye said:

I realized, there's another way GW dropped the ball with Terminators- they made them too big!

 

Hear me out. I don't have any of the new Termies, and my Primaris supplies are pretty small, but I was comparing some old and new scaled Marine models and I noticed something weird going on. To show what I mean, first of all here's a comparison of the old and new loyal Terminators, along with a Chaos one.

The new Terminator is a full head taller than the older design! The Chaos Terminator, by contrast, stands only slightly taller than the old Assault Termie, though he does have much better proportions overall.

 

Now I appreciate these aren't the best photos ever, but anyway. I was comparing my converted truescale "de-Primaris'd" Captain to the wonderful metal Terminator Chaplain and realized their heads come to almost the exact same height, with minimal proportional differences. Here they are standing next to a 100% oldscale Sternguard.

The Chaplain is slightly set back too, which makes him look slightly shorter than he actually is in this photo!

Now, I know Terminator armour is bulkier than regular power armour, but unless platform heels are part of the blessed panoply of TDA's subsystems, it shouldn't be making you a full head taller than a regular Marine. It can't even be handwaved as Primaris size increase either; the Captain is directly based on a Primaris miniature! (This also goes some way to confirming my feelings that the in-universe height difference between Primaris and Firstborn is negligible, and certainly not a full head, and that Primaris miniatures are the size regular Marines are supposed to be).

 

Now I was wondering if the Chaplain was considerably bigger than a regular Terminator, so I compared him to a plastic oldscale Terminator (with 3D printed head). As it turned out, whilst the Chaplain is slightly taller than his plastic brother, most of the height difference is in the posture, notably the "power squat" of the plastic one.

And just for ref, here's the same Terminator next to another oldscale power-armour veteran.

Now obviously the plastic one has clearly stylized proportions and posture, primarily to accommodate the fully modular construction, which the three-piece metal Chaplain lacks and thus has far better posture (and slightly improved overall proportions). But as you can see, it's not THAT far off.

 

Finally, I decided to compare the Chaplain to a new-scale Chaos Marine (a 3D printed one admittedly, but it's the same size as a modern "true-scaled" CSM or Primaris anyway so he'll do). And once again, the Chaplain was almost the exact same size.

 

From looking at this, obviously GW thinks that Terminator armour gives a full extra head of height...unless you're a traitor? it's possible they were following tradition from how the old Terminators were considerably bigger than old Marines, but that was the same with Chaos back in the day, and their Terminators are now much the same height as power-armour-clad Marines (which I personally prefer).

 

Now, Space Marine scale has always been all over the place, but we seem to have three separate scales now, if we work logically and consider a member of a "scale" to be representative of an average-height Marine.

1: Classic scale (old Firstborn, including now-very-old metal Terminators).

2: "True" scale (Primaris, Chaos Marines and Chaos Terminators, the very few Firstborn models to be made post-Primaris, older plastic Terminators and their then-contemporary metal characters such as the Chaplain in the pics).

3: "HUEG LIEK XBOX" scale (new Terminators).

 

Classic scale is obviously too small to be the "correct" scale, even if I personally like it. True-scale encompasses the majority of modern (post-Primaris) Marines, with the solitary exception of newer Terminators, which are massively larger than any other Marine, loyal or traitor, in the range.

 

So, assuming you care enough about scale to want a consistently true-scaled Marine army, irrespective of Primaris/Firstborn debates, modern Terminators are too damn big! Now, obviously, converting older Terminators to be a bit better proportioned isn't a massive burden, especially with 3D printing being a thing, but if we're talking about what GW could do about it, there's a few options if they gave a Jokaero's about having everything be properly scaled (they don't).

1: Replace the new Terminators with newer, smaller ones more in line with the Chaos Terminators (extremely unlikely but ironically probably the best option).

2: Replace the Chaos Terminators with similarly inflated new models (please no)

3: Replace the entire Primaris range AGAIN to make them even bigger than they already were to reinforce the "Primaris are big!" scale creep and argh NO NO NO NO NO NO PLEASE EMPEROR NO

 

...Ahem. Lost my composure there.

 

Anyway. Point is, new Terminators. Too fething big. Nice models, but drastically oversized.

 

God, I hate scale creep.

If you look the "heads" are actually at the same height.  Terminator Armor has a "topper" that adds to their height.  If you were actually building a suit for cosplay you'd have a backpack that comes up over the head in a cowl. 

[Xenith]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:46 AM, Orange Knight said:

40k started out as a skirmish game, and for a few editions after that the armies were still relatively small compared to what is run today in a standard 2k game. In those early days, unit design philosophy was different to the one that dominates today.

 

Agree. From 20 years online, the gradual shift from UK 1500pt standard to US 2000 pts was due to the US tourney scenes desire to be able to bring "all the toys to a game to deal with anything"*, while the UK scene was about making a tight army that might have weaknesses. I recall the old 'Ard Boyz tourney was even 3000pts, to really remove any thought from army building. 

 

As armies can thusly include more answers to other things, the value of the generalist diminishes drastically, as instead of the one generalist you can afford two specialists which are more efficient. 

 

I think dropping back to 1500pt standard would be better, as well as bumping points. 

 

*Not said in a derogatory way, just directly quoting or paraphrasing the dominant discussion on he internet at the time. GW 40k Grand Tournaments were generally 1500pts of 40k, with smaller tourneys being 1000 or so. Standard for games around 2000-2015 1000pts 40k or 1500pts WFB. In 3rd, 2000pt games were reserved for large, special events, models like chapter masters and abaddon were locked behind 2000pt game minimums so they wouldn't be regularly seen on the battlefield. 

Edited June 17 by Xenith

[AutumnEffect]

I always enjoyed 1500 points as well, but we also have to acknowledge there's a direct incentive for larger games to be the norm.

Games Workshop can sell more models.

[jaxom]

On 6/17/2024 at 12:59 PM, AutumnEffect said:

we also have to acknowledge there's a direct incentive for larger games to be the norm.

Games Workshop can sell more models.

True, though in this case it was originally TOs getting feedback from players that they wanted larger armies; as @Xenith mentioned. I think it was in 5th or 6th edition?

 

Personally, I think there'd be more sales for 1500 points because one would get used to rotating portions of their collection in and out of use, rather than seeing 2000 points as a goal. Probably just me, though.

[Indy Techwisp]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:08 PM, DemonGSides said:

Yeah that whole screed is just a lot of "I've got old models and don't like new stuff."

New terminators are great scale correction compared to old terminators.  Terminators should look massive and impressive.  They're also almost exactly in line with the Death Guard terminator in size; deathshroud actually stand slightly taller due to the accoutrement, but their heads are in similar places.  Chaos Terminators by themselves are also very similar; not even a full head shorter, but with more pronounced posing in the stride.  Heads are roughly the same size, as are arms, between the two new kits.

Chaos Terminators are just suffering from the posing issues of the old assault terminators.  They're all mid-stride or almost crouching, whereas the new terminators are Guts from Berserk shuffling forward menacingly.

Definitely didn't need a full post comparing a whole bunch of things that aren't a Chaos Terminator OR the new Terminator lmao

 

2 seconds of googling found this; definitely a little bit smaller, but not egregiously so, and nowhere near the levels of old terminators vs current terminators.  Factor in that the new terminators look good in scale with other Marine stuff, I think new terminators are pretty much perfect.  Only issue is lack of oath papers.

 

 

Out of interest, do you know how a Scarab Occult Terminator lines up height wise to the new Termies?

The legs are pretty straight for a Terminator, and line up as expected compared to rubrics but I'm sure I've seen people pointing out that SOTs are only still in the same post code as the current Scale because of the headcrests.

Edited June 27 by Indy Techwisp

[jaxom]

14 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Out of interest, do you know how a Scarab Occult Terminator lines up height wise to the new Termies?

Not a direct comparison, but:

https://beyondthetabletop.com/true-scale-terminators/
 

There’s a size line up with the new Terminators all the way at the bottom that includes a Chaos Terminator; and about half way is a comparison of all the Chaos options including SO. They are smaller (I want to say “slighter” too) than Chaos Terminators and Blightlords.