Games Workshop has once again dropped the ball with Terminators.

[Tacitus]

7 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

He also has the Ancient vibe with the OC stuff too. It just feels all over the place. 

That feels like a throwaway gimmick. 

[Orange Knight]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:25 PM, Karhedron said:

 

My understanding is that the model designs come first and the rules are developed afterwards. I think he started life as a true Gravis Apothecary but his availability coincided with the design decision to remove revival abilities from 3-wound Marine models (e.g. Deathwing Apothecary). This left him without a role so they slapped on rules to turn him into a sort of pseudo Lt.

 

I also think this is the case.

 

And I also think that in future rules iterations he will function more like a regular Apothecary. 

[Karhedron]

On 7/17/2024 at 10:38 PM, Orange Knight said:

And I also think that in future rules iterations he will function more like a regular Apothecary. 

 

I hope so. If Eldar Spiritseers can resurrect Wraithguard then I don't think bringing Gravis infantry is a particularly big deal. 

[Indy Techwisp]

We comparing Gravis to Terminators again?

 

I think the biggest dropped ball for Terminators is that Grey Knights Terminators apparently are getting their stats printed ahead of the Grey Knights codex in the new Inquisitorial Agents codex, all but confirming that they are not getting updated this edition, since the IA codex is a one model codex despite technically being the faction launch.

 

A perfect opportunity to update the Terminators and nope.

Hopefully Grey Knights players can withstand their small Termies until 11th for the next chance.

Edited July 22 by Indy Techwisp

[DemonGSides]

I would think that the perfect time to update GK would be their codex that's coming out next year, but that might run into Space Wolves timing of refreshing a la DA and BA.

IA having the datasheet doesn't "prove" anything other than that they're gonna be in the IA codex.  Data sheets have been changed mid edition before.

[Karhedron]

Technically it does not matter if the GKs listed in AI do not match the unit listed in the GK Codex since they are separate army options. One is intended to be fielded as an allied unit, the other as part of an all-GK force.

 

As long as the new GK Termie kit (assuming it comes) contains the options needed to build the unit in the AI Codex then it is fine. If it includes extra options as well, that is also fine, it just means that allied units do not have access to all the options found in the unit from the full army which is actually not unreasonable.

 

It would only be a problem if the GKTs in the AI Codex have an option for something like a Psycannon that is then removed from the new kit and GK Codex entry but that seems unlikely.

[Cryptshadow]

i agree with basically majority of what OP is saying, They are basically just heavier tactical marines or heavier intercessors that can melee, at least thats how they feel for me looks wise. Why would these elite guys just bring a rapid fire bolter when you could take heavier weaponry, Heavy plasma, assault cannons, heavy flamers etc

 

Before i started collecting i think i had tried out dawn of war 3, and terminators in that game come down raining bullets with each one carrying assault cannons and one guy has the missile launcher and they would shred almost every unit, and i thought thats how terminators were for a bit lol and im kinda sad thats not how they are, and i believe they can only take either the assault cannon or the missle launcher? yeesh

[HeadlessCross]

16 hours ago, Cryptshadow said:

i agree with basically majority of what OP is saying, They are basically just heavier tactical marines or heavier intercessors that can melee, at least thats how they feel for me looks wise. Why would these elite guys just bring a rapid fire bolter when you could take heavier weaponry, Heavy plasma, assault cannons, heavy flamers etc

 

Before i started collecting i think i had tried out dawn of war 3, and terminators in that game come down raining bullets with each one carrying assault cannons and one guy has the missile launcher and they would shred almost every unit, and i thought thats how terminators were for a bit lol and im kinda sad thats not how they are, and i believe they can only take either the assault cannon or the missle launcher? yeesh

I don't have a problem necessarily with the weapons they have besides the Assault Cannon, but I think a better proliferation of Heavy Weapons would help as well. You get one at five dudes, but a total of three at ten dudes. 

 

I'm still going to shill my fix of them hitting on 2+.

[Indy Techwisp]

 

I'm still going to shill my fix of them hitting on 2+.

 

On the one hand, 2+ for Terminators would certainly help.

On the other hand, Grey Knights with Battleline Terminators hitting on 2+ would snap the game in half.

 

It needs to be a more tailored fix if it's gonna work, but also not a fix that only makes specifically Loyalist Basic SM Terminators better and leaves all the other Terminators to rot.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

On the one hand, 2+ for Terminators would certainly help.

On the other hand, Grey Knights with Battleline Terminators hitting on 2+ would snap the game in half.

 

It needs to be a more tailored fix if it's gonna work, but also not a fix that only makes specifically Loyalist Basic SM Terminators better and leaves all the other Terminators to rot.

I already said explicitly it would be for Vet Terminators, so to exclude the Grey Knight troop ones. 

[Indy Techwisp]

 

I already said explicitly it would be for Vet Terminators, so to exclude the Grey Knight troop ones. 

 

Does anyone have Veteran Terminators?

Or is this a concept for a new Terminator unit?

[Beta galactosidase]

 

 

Does anyone have Veteran Terminators?

Or is this a concept for a new Terminator unit?

The premise is that Grey Knights put a lot of  less-veteran marines in TDA, due to the extreme missions they go on and their enormous resources. The whole objection is over them being a troop choice, after all.

 

Notoriously the Grey Knights do have a more-super tier of terminator called Paladins.  They were often complained about as having broken rules, 13 years ago.

 

So HCs suggestion is unconteoversial, that GK have a rare tda squad and a legendary tda squad, where all other Chapters use a rare squad, between the two.

 

The Dark Angels also have a second level of terminator

 

To me, if you're willing to house rule or wishlist, but you still use nine stats and any edition of 40k, it's futile.  Terminators should only have six stats on their profile

 

 

Edited August 13 by Beta galactosidase
common, rare, legendary

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

Does anyone have Veteran Terminators?

Or is this a concept for a new Terminator unit?

Everyone besides Grey Knights, which have regular troops and their Vets (which are Paladins). It's a cross faction fix for all SM and CSM armies, really. Personally I think GW has played it too safe with hit values to make most stuff hit on a 3+. We need more 2+ (like with Marine Vets in general and Eldar Aspect Leaders) and more 4+ (GW updating the Daemon Engines to hit on 3+ for all their weapons was a mistake).

[Cenobite Terminator]

Deathwing Knights have it going on, even more so when you attach a terminator Chaplain. Survivable and can shred big units.