Some Blood Angel character help

[Helias_Tancred]

I sold off everything I owned 40k back in October, 12k of BA, and 10k of DA, and anything else except for my terrain collection. I called it my "hard reset" of the hobby. I took the cash and bought and built a Black Templar collection, 6k to be exact. I knew going forward I wanted one more marine collection for 40k. Blood Angels were my first army getting into the hobby back in 2013, and I owned them for most of that time up until last October. Going forward I'm going to do a 4-5k collection, holding off on a good part of it until after the codex and new models come out, but I did pick up Mephiston and Dante and will probably get the no-brainer units beforehand such as 10 intercessors, 10 assault intercessors, 6 inceptors, 6 aggressors, etc. 

 

In regards to generic characters I want to be exact this time around, I don't want to run out and just buy every marine character like I did last time ...  If I get a character, for example a captain, jump pack captain, chaplain, apothecary, etc ... I want to know which unit or units they will go with and have a reason for getting them!

 

I know my collection will have 10 jump pack intercessors, 10 death company with jump packs, 10 vanguard veterans, 10 sanguinary guard, 6 Bladeguard, and 5 terminators as my more offensive punchy units. So which characters are just no-brainers to get for running with those units? I've been out of playing Blood Angels for a good while now, so I feel a bit rusty and lost. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Brother Raul]

I am in a similar spot, it's fun with all these potential new options and great new models but frustrating that we haven't gotten half of it yet.

 

Now I am not sure how good DC are actually going to be in this edition (big rumours they will go to one special melee weapon per 5) but Lemartes is getting a lot of play. He limits incoming damage via the special rule plus gives lethals.

 

I am liking jump Captains with Sanguinary guard (cheaper and more tactical than Dante). Couldn't see them not working with VV depending after the codex.

 

Sanguinary priests are also great for both, giving 5+ FNP and another AP.

 

Librarians give a +4 inv, chappy w/ jps gives MW on the charge that stacks with AIJP, Liby in TDA gives sustained hits1 (strong) and Chappy in TDA gives a +4 on MW (strong too).

 

TDA Captains give rerolls to charge and a free strat.

 

Look into Tycho, he's a MW trap beast in DC mode and very tactical in regular mode with niche rules that can catch people off guard.

 

Other than that rules are kind of streamlined, most HQs give lethals or something. Mephiston is great but suffers the same lack of JP and rules as most editions so his squad is basically ablative wounds (unless VV gets added).

 

Not sure about Astorath. He's always occupied a weird spot in the codex.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

I've started off my new collection with Dante and Mephiston. Looks like they don't get used much at the moment? Sad.

 

 

[DemonGSides]

15 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

I've started off my new collection with Dante and Mephiston. Looks like they don't get used much at the moment? Sad.

 

 

 

Nah but they're absolutely phenomenal models so who cares what the competitive crowd thinks?

Dante's biggest issue is his melee is just slightly more anemic than you want; how he didn't get 3 damage on his Axe i'll never understand.  His other negative is that he's a Chapter Master without a CP+ gimmick; truly insane considering his title of Lord Regent of Imperium Nihilus (A title that's meant nothing and a half of the Imperium that's barely been looked at since the Retcon of the Indomitus Crusade).  He also comes stapled with a Battleshock ability which, of course, is useless.  However, he's got Sustained D3 on his pistol which is cool, considering it's a melta weapon.  Also, 12" movement is really nice.

Mephiston is in an even sorrier state, unfortunately.  Stuck leading units he would rather not, he's only middling-ly good with Assault Intercessors (you're going to always prefer a regular ol' Captain to him for that job, unfortunately), and his abilities are decent, just not great for what he gets paired with (LET ME TAKE MEPHISTON WITH BLADEGUARD, OR AN HONOR GUARD!) since Fights First REALLY wants you to have a strong hitting melee profile to take advantage of the "I GO FIRST, NO QUESTIONS ASKED".  His shooting is meh but his melee is REALLY good, just very hard to bubblewrap him with anything meaningful (I've run him with Sternguard and came away meh) and also take advantage of him.  Also the removal of the Psychic phase REALLY hurt him, since he's now forced to walk, instead of yeeting himself around with blood wings (IMO, he should be a jump troop classification and have a 12" move since he's always popping those wings out for like, any reason he can find).

As far as leaders, with what you've got, You're going to just kinda want a smattering of the best Jump Characters; Get a Jump Captain, get a regular captain, get a Jump Chaplain (I don't see this one getting an update with us, but if they just Primaris-scaled the old Jump Chaplain I'd be :cuss:ing ECSTATIC).  I think Aggressors are secretly really good in SoS (Twin-linked powerfists go punch punch punch) so if you do end up going that way, a Biologis is another good pick up, as well as another captain to lead the aggressors (Can have both in the same unit of aggressors, 8 Gravis Bodies throwing a ridiculous (I think around 40) shots every turn with lethals and a bunch of re-rolls plus Free Strats is a hell of a drug).

Hopefully this helps!

[Malakithe]

Kinda sad that no BA leaders can lead BGVs

[Helias_Tancred]

Agreed. It's a frigging travesty. 

[Malakithe]

I get it. They might be kinda broken if a SangPriest could join them in addition to the SoS bonus.

[Brother Raul]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:08 AM, DemonGSides said:

 

Nah but they're absolutely phenomenal models so who cares what the competitive crowd thinks?

Dante's biggest issue is his melee is just slightly more anemic than you want; how he didn't get 3 damage on his Axe i'll never understand.  His other negative is that he's a Chapter Master without a CP+ gimmick; truly insane considering his title of Lord Regent of Imperium Nihilus (A title that's meant nothing and a half of the Imperium that's barely been looked at since the Retcon of the Indomitus Crusade).  He also comes stapled with a Battleshock ability which, of course, is useless.  However, he's got Sustained D3 on his pistol which is cool, considering it's a melta weapon.  Also, 12" movement is really nice.

Mephiston is in an even sorrier state, unfortunately.  Stuck leading units he would rather not, he's only middling-ly good with Assault Intercessors (you're going to always prefer a regular ol' Captain to him for that job, unfortunately), and his abilities are decent, just not great for what he gets paired with (LET ME TAKE MEPHISTON WITH BLADEGUARD, OR AN HONOR GUARD!) since Fights First REALLY wants you to have a strong hitting melee profile to take advantage of the "I GO FIRST, NO QUESTIONS ASKED".  His shooting is meh but his melee is REALLY good, just very hard to bubblewrap him with anything meaningful (I've run him with Sternguard and came away meh) and also take advantage of him.  Also the removal of the Psychic phase REALLY hurt him, since he's now forced to walk, instead of yeeting himself around with blood wings (IMO, he should be a jump troop classification and have a 12" move since he's always popping those wings out for like, any reason he can find).

As far as leaders, with what you've got, You're going to just kinda want a smattering of the best Jump Characters; Get a Jump Captain, get a regular captain, get a Jump Chaplain (I don't see this one getting an update with us, but if they just Primaris-scaled the old Jump Chaplain I'd be :cuss:ing ECSTATIC).  I think Aggressors are secretly really good in SoS (Twin-linked powerfists go punch punch punch) so if you do end up going that way, a Biologis is another good pick up, as well as another captain to lead the aggressors (Can have both in the same unit of aggressors, 8 Gravis Bodies throwing a ridiculous (I think around 40) shots every turn with lethals and a bunch of re-rolls plus Free Strats is a hell of a drug).

Hopefully this helps!

Well said. Absolutely agree with the sentiment around both Dante and Mephiston.

 

They are expensive, squishy and have terrible special rules for what they should be from lore.

[Karhedron]

Dante definitely got short-changed on the CM-level special rules. Calgar and Azrael both generate +1CP which is always handy. Logan has an army-wide reroll charges and hits in melee (albeit once per battle). Dante is embarassingly bad considering he is meant to be 1500+ years old with all those centuries of experience.

[Helias_Tancred]

On 6/3/2024 at 8:43 AM, Karhedron said:

Dante definitely got short-changed on the CM-level special rules. Calgar and Azrael both generate +1CP which is always handy. Logan has an army-wide reroll charges and hits in melee (albeit once per battle). Dante is embarassingly bad considering he is meant to be 1500+ years old with all those centuries of experience.

 

There's been a 40k consistent pattern of Dante and Mephiston being bad compared to their peers, going on multiple editions now, especially Dante imo. He gets screwed all the time with poor rules. 

On 6/3/2024 at 8:43 AM, Karhedron said:

Dante definitely got short-changed on the CM-level special rules. Calgar and Azrael both generate +1CP which is always handy. Logan has an army-wide reroll charges and hits in melee (albeit once per battle). Dante is embarassingly bad considering he is meant to be 1500+ years old with all those centuries of experience.

 

How would you re-write Dante for 10th edition?

 

 

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

How would you re-write Dante for 10th edition?

 

I suppose to represent him Regent of Imperium Nihilus, giving him the +1CP per turn rule would be simple and effective.

 

If we want something a bit more unique and interesting, I would give him something to represent his favoured tactic of leading massed Deep Strike assaults. For example, all units Can reroll charges if they arrived from Reserves on that turn.

[DemonGSides]

Yeah at a minimum I need him to have Lord Solar level CP generation, just a freebie each turn.

 

Then his ability needs to lean into either like Karhedron said or something that leans into his lore as being old and indomitable. I want his stat line to be impressive while also being a force multiplier.  I don't want him to get a battle shock ability even tho that's traditionally what the Death Mask gave out, but something like inspiring units around him to do better would be pretty slick. Then you wouldn't feel as bad paying for a Sanguinary Guard bodyguard. 

[Karhedron]

The problem with Battleshock is just that GW over-values it. Unless you have something else to leverage or exploit any failed tests, it is a pretty trivial penalty.

[BitsHammer]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The problem with Battleshock is just that GW over-values it. Unless you have something else to leverage or exploit any failed tests, it is a pretty trivial penalty.

They really made a mistake when they failed to decrease leadership to make it more impactful. 30k had it right: if you want leadership type things to matter then the average score needs to be lower so it actually comes into play more often.

[Alternis]

Oh boy I definitely gotta wade in here. 

 

Soooo don’t give Mephiston too much flak, he’s the only unit in our codex who hits at strength 11 in melee

 

but the funniest bit is when he’s attached to a unit of 10 assault Intercessors sitting on an objective (hopefully in cover) 

 

it’s just a bad day for anyone looking to assault the unit, pop a red rampage and you can even take out C’tan’s and with the new seasons mission rules coming in, Mephiston is about to become way more useful in an assault Intercessor unit for scoring plays. 
 

 

as for Dante, unfortunately he is sub par as far as chapter masters go, Marneus Calgar and Azrael in particular are laughing at him, he needs a stronger melee profile and needs to bring more to the unit he’s attached too apart from a +1 to hit.

 

According to rumour though we should be getting at the very least a new Lemartes and either Astaroth or Sanguinor coming soon, so hopefully GW gets their rules team in line and fixes Dante

[Paladin777]

A jump captain on the charge is also S11. Just saying. You can also get him to AP-4 with AoW and a priest in the squad. 

Edited June 10 by Paladin777

[Brother Raul]

Thats the spice. 270 points for Mephiston, SP and 5 AI is actually really good.

 

Don't dismiss 3 plasma pistol shots before the charge either. 

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Brother Raul said:

Thats the spice. 270 points for Mephiston, SP and 5 AI is actually really good.

 

Sadly you can't put both Mehpy and the SP in the same squad.

[DemonGSides]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Sadly you can't put both Mehpy and the SP in the same squad.

 

So dumb.  I hate this type of stuff that GW's pulling with the Leaders.

[Karhedron]

13 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

So dumb.  I hate this type of stuff that GW's pulling with the Leaders.

 

Agreed. I get that the idea is reduce Deathstars but some of the restrictions make no sense. An Apothecary can join a squad with a Captain or an Lt but not a squad with both. 

[DemonGSides]

Yeah I can almost understand the whole "3 Leaders is just far too many for one unit." But almost every other restriction so far has been a big 

Edited June 13 by DemonGSides

[Xenith]

On 5/31/2024 at 2:37 AM, Helias_Tancred said:

So which characters are just no-brainers to get for running with those units?

 

Hard to say, there's the current no brainers, but these might change in 6 months with the FAQ/updates.

 

Personally, I'd go with your favourite models, they will never go out of fashion. 

[Helias_Tancred]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Hard to say, there's the current no brainers, but these might change in 6 months with the FAQ/updates.

 

Personally, I'd go with your favourite models, they will never go out of fashion. 

 

Solid advice. You're right, by the time I start tackling this (I already have Dante and Mephiston, I love both but that hardly counts as all my characters lol) who knows what the BA rules will be?

 

Offhand I'm thinking of a Captain across several different versions; on foot, with jump pack, in gravis armor, and in terminator armor. Chaplain on foot, in terminator armor, and with a jump pack. Primaris Lieutenant on foot. Sanguinary Priest with jump pack because I'm going to do a primaris version of Corbulo copying what We Paint Minis (YouTube) did. After that most likely an apothecary biologis to accompany gravis units, techmarine .... and I'm starting to run out of character needs and ideas?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14 by Helias_Tancred

[Rhavien]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Hard to say, there's the current no brainers, but these might change in 6 months with the FAQ/updates.

 

Personally, I'd go with your favourite models, they will never go out of fashion. 

 

I have to say, that's a bold statement . I'm sure there are several characters I didn't touch for years over years in the past. However, right now there are actually many viable or at least usefull combinations. I would hesitate to paint up a chaplain on bike right now, cause of the lackluster bikers to accompy him. But this also could change in a heartbeat if they get a new kit with more options or a rules update. Thinking about the current situation, nothing is for sure anymore  at least not for too long.

[Helias_Tancred]

That was my thoughts exactly on a bike chaplain. Why? Sadly the Outriders are very meh right now, and theres better thematic choices for Blood Angels that are better supported in the rules.