Chainfists, 10th edition and SOS.

[Brother Raul]

Hail Brothers and Sisters,

                                              Was doing the final math hammer on the terminators load out today and found something out, which is probably already common knowledge but worth mentioning.

 

Basically trying to figure out how many chain fists to take when I realised they were STR 12 9th edition but now only STR 8.

 

It's offset a bit by anti vehicle 3+ but in a SOS detachment a powerfist goes to STR 10 on the charge and wounds toughness 9 on a 3+ anyway and hits more (3+/4+).

 

Oath of moment gives both options +1 to hit but a 2+ on the powerfists then becomes 2+ hits v +2 wound on toughness 11+ armour.

 

Both cause the same damage.

 

There's a bit of T11+ in the game at the moment so the 3+ anti vehicle still has play but it's very role dependant.

 

Also how many chain fists are people seeing/ running on squads in 10th please? That's always a good place to start when trying to figure these things out. *Again list dependant.

[Karhedron]

With more hordes cropping up in the meta, I would be cautious about putting too many Chain fists in there. It gives more AT punch but reduces the squad against everything else. I would probably only put 1 per squad normally. 2 would be the maximum. 

[TheArtilleryman]

I have one chainfist in my terminator squad just because I prefer the look of power fists but felt like I should have at least one CF. 
 

I really feel like they should look like the chaos termie ones where you have the chain blade attached to a power fist rather than the little hand holding the mini chainsaw.
 

They always used to just be power fists but better, which I preferred. However with the current rules I understand how that wouldn’t work as we don’t have the fine points system to differentiate them so both need some pros and cons.
 

I know the thread is about the maths so a bit OT but it was just my brain splurge.

Edited June 1 by TheArtilleryman

[AutumnEffect]

Chain fists are a trap tbh.

 

The WS 4+ isn't worth Anti Vehicle 3+. If it also had better AP it might be different but as it is you're better off getting the more accurate fist.

[Brother Raul]

Seems like in 9th they were a genuine special weapon. I'd have taken 5 on a squad as with STR 12 you are getting great wound rolls.

 

Its a big change for 1 edition removed.

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, Brother Raul said:

Seems like in 9th they were a genuine special weapon. I'd have taken 5 on a squad as with STR 12 you are getting great wound rolls.

 

Its a big change for 1 edition removed.

It’s odd that in this edition where vehicle toughness has been buffed so much, that this dedicated anti-vehicle weapon has had its strength nerfed.

[AutumnEffect]

57 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It’s odd that in this edition where vehicle toughness has been buffed so much, that this dedicated anti-vehicle weapon has had its strength nerfed.

 

That could be part of why they nerfed them. They could also have overestimated the value of Anti-Vehicle 3+ on it. 
It's really the WS 4+ that kills it because it makes you worse at anything not a vehicle.
You're getting .33% more efficiency in attacks against Toughness 8+ vehicles but at the cost of -.55% efficiency against everything else.

 

If it had Anti-Monster as well as Anti-Vehicle or keep them at 3+ hit and just limit the number you can take then it'd be viable. As is it's just not worth it, IMO.

 

Edited June 3 by AutumnEffect

[Paladin777]

@AutumnEffect

 

those numbers aren't right. You're getting 25% less efficiency against everything else, even steven against T8 vehicles, and +50% efficiency against vehicles with T9+

 

in any case, I run 2 chainfists in my terminator squad, but that's because they're already modeled that way, though I generally agree with your conclusion of them not being worth it, especially in SoS, which is what I run. 

Edited June 3 by Paladin777

[AutumnEffect]

14 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

@AutumnEffect

 

those numbers aren't right. You're getting 25% less efficiency against everything else, even steven against T8 vehicles, and +50% efficiency against vehicles with T9+

 

You're correct. I half way realized that when I thought back to the post a little later but figured the gist was correct enough not to go back and change it.