Which primarch was/is the most open-minded to accepting Xenos?

[Helias_Tancred]

Subject line says it all. Thanks. 

 

 

[Wormwoods]

Horus, briefly, with the Interex before that all went to cuss? 

 

Failing that, probably Vulkan or Sanguinius? Y'know, the nice ones. It's a low bar, obviously, they're all absolute bastards.

[Valkyrion]

If future actions can be used to justify past intentions, then Guilliman. 

If ignorance is your bag, then Lion and Magnus, who both thought the Watchers and the thousand sons familiars were xeno species, rather than warp entities. 

Dubious entry with Leman Russ, given the Space Wolves are massive hypocrites, so fenrisian wolves are either xenos, mutants or there are, in fact, wolves on fenris. 

 

Otherwise, Alpharius, probably, what with the whole Cabal thing. 

[Valkyrion]

11 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

Horus, briefly, with the Interex before that all went to cuss? 

 

Failing that, probably Vulkan or Sanguinius? Y'know, the nice ones. It's a low bar, obviously, they're all absolute bastards.

 

The Interex were human but kept a sort of alien zoo. Vulkan had a pretty torrid time with the Dark Eldar, so I'm not sure he'd really be high up in the xenos tea party list.

I can't think of many positive interactions, really. The Emperor's Children and Word Bearers didn't immediately attack the Eldar, so a tick in their columns I guess?

 

[Karhedron]

I seem to recall Vulkan criticising Curze for killing some Eldar who had surrendered (possibly including a child) so that may qualify.

 

Guilliman is probably the most open-minded though as he has an Eldar Farseer on his flagship as an advisor.

[Helias_Tancred]

I was thinking Guilliman, or maybe Sanguinius when he was alive? I never considered Vulkan given his history with the Dark Eldar in his upbringing?

[Helias_Tancred]

I guess another question is which primarch would be the most hesitant to kill Xenos simply for being Xenos? As in they'd use their brain first, think about it, and possibly even have some amount of tolerance (as long as the Xenos species wasn't a threat to humanity?)

 

 

[terminator ultra]

one of the missing primarchs lol

[Karhedron]

Fulgrim (before corruption) had some patience with Xenos. He listed several Eldar Maiden worlds as unfit for colonisation so as not to spoil them.

 

Broadly speaking, all the Primarchs were products of a pretty xenophobic father and empire. There are degrees of variation within that but were probably based on pragmatism. Remember that most Xenos in 40K really do just want to kill/eat/enslave humanity. The closest the Imperium might come to alliances are the Eldar and the Tau and even they are hardly trustworthy.

[INKS]

1 hour ago, terminator ultra said:

one of the missing primarchs lol

This is or was rumored to be true. I do not recall the book but it was mentioned that one of them may have had too much contact with a Xenos species and was or could have been the reason for their extermination. 

[terminator ultra]

28 minutes ago, INKS said:

much contact with a Xenos species and was or could have been the reason for their extermination. 

the lost and the dammed is the name for them currently used, so witch one makes more sense? 

[INKS]

21 minutes ago, terminator ultra said:

the lost and the dammed is the name for them currently used, so witch one makes more sense? 

It may have just been some made up talk. But there was a passage in a book between I think it was Malcador and one of the Primarchs about the missing primarchs and how, even if they were there they would not be counted among the loyalists. Most often people assume this means they fell to chaos but I don't know if that is actually true, we'll probably never get a clear picture on that or not. Can't seem to find a source for the Xenos thing so that might just be speculation. But when you said it above it triggered that memory of hearing that before, somewhere.

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, terminator ultra said:

the lost and the dammed is the name for them currently used, so witch one makes more sense? 

 

No, the names for the lost Legions were the Purged and the Forgotten. Whether this meant one was purged and the other forgotten or whether both were purged and forgotten is unclear. The short story "Chamber at the end of Memory" sheds some light on the forgotten element though with Malcador admitting to erasing the memories of the missing Primarchs to the point where Dorn could not even remember their names.

[AutumnEffect]

There is at least one case during the Great Crusade of the Imperium creating a protectorate for a Xenos race that was deemed harmless: the Adarnian.

 

There wasn't a religious bent towards the xenophobia back then so who knows if something similar would be possible in the 41st millennium.

 

Like with most things, the answer is probably 'it depends' and it would depend a lot on what kind of xenos we're talking about. Something 'harmless' with only Neolithic levels of technology or a star spanning empire that has a history of doing terrible things to humans?

[INKS]

50 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

No, the names for the lost Legions were the Purged and the Forgotten. Whether this meant one was purged and the other forgotten or whether both were purged and forgotten is unclear. The short story "Chamber at the end of Memory" sheds some light on the forgotten element though with Malcador admitting to erasing the memories of the missing Primarchs to the point where Dorn could not even remember their names.

Ah yes, this is what I was talking about, this conversation.

25 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

There is at least one case during the Great Crusade of the Imperium creating a protectorate for a Xenos race that was deemed harmless: the Adarnian.

 

There wasn't a religious bent towards the xenophobia back then so who knows if something similar would be possible in the 41st millennium.

 

Like with most things, the answer is probably 'it depends' and it would depend a lot on what kind of xenos we're talking about. Something 'harmless' with only Neolithic levels of technology or a star spanning empire that has a history of doing terrible things to humans?

I don't know the current lore, but isn't this more or less what happened with the Tau, The Imperium stumbled across them and they had almost no tech. Then they sort of got lost in the shuffle so to speak and boom, tech explosion to where they are now.

[AutumnEffect]

26 minutes ago, INKS said:

I don't know the current lore, but isn't this more or less what happened with the Tau, The Imperium stumbled across them and they had almost no tech. Then they sort of got lost in the shuffle so to speak and boom, tech explosion to where they are now.

 

The Tau were actually scheduled to be purged. A colony fleet was en-route to colonize the planet and wipe out the Tau but it was destroyed by a warp storm that stopped further efforts.

[Xenith]

I'd say probably Magnus. For him, knowledge > everything, so if he could learn from them, he'd preserve them, famously bringing him into conflict with other Primarchs. 

 

The ultimate fate of all xenos within the imperium was death or subjugation, though, to assert humanity's monodominance. I still think Magnus would be the one most likely to coexist.

[Orange Knight]

Guilliman is very open minded, he is actively allied with Xenos and has Eldar farseers on his personal council.

 

The Lion clearly tolerates the Watchers.

 

I imagine that many of the Primarchs would have a very pragmatic approach to this issue.

 

[Tacitus]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:36 AM, Orange Knight said:

Guilliman is very open minded, he is actively allied with Xenos and has Eldar farseers on his personal council.

 

The Lion clearly tolerates the Watchers.

 

I imagine that many of the Primarchs would have a very pragmatic approach to this issue.

 

That brings the discussion to the finer point:  Which Xenos?  Not all Xenos are "created equally". Ratlings and Ogryn for example are pushed towards Homo Sapiens due to their value in the Guard. I assume nobody needs another trip down the Social Commentary embedded in 40K memory lane - but those two could easy be seen as parallels to Antebellum Mulato while Aeldari compare to dark skinned African descent serving in the militaries.  Greater common enemy, but still segregated, mistrusted etc. 

[Karhedron]

Ratlings and Ogryns are abhumans (stable subspecies of humans) rather than Xenos. Classing them as abhumans rather than mutants grants then a degree of tolerance from the Imperium.

Alpharius/Omegon worked extensively with the Cabal during the Horus Heresy which was made up of a number of species including Eldar and (I think) a Slaan.

[Tacitus]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:13 AM, Karhedron said:

Ratlings and Ogryns are abhumans (stable subspecies of humans) rather than Xenos. Classing them as abhumans rather than mutants grants then a degree of tolerance from the Imperium.

Alpharius/Omegon worked extensively with the Cabal during the Horus Heresy which was made up of a number of species including Eldar and (I think) a Slaan.

That was my point.  The (fictional) people who make "the rules" in The Imperium ruled that those two were abhuman as opposed to xenos.  Because they had value to the war effort. Just like the Machine God Cult got a special exemption in order to procure titans and a hundred million billion lasguns. 

[Karhedron]

I don't think any of the human sub-species are classed as Xenos. They are abhumans if they are stable or mutants if they are not. Psykers, Navigators, Ogryns, Ratlings and even Pariahs are recognised as "human".

 

The only exception I can think of are Votann and that is simply because most of the Imperium are not aware they are descended from humanity and the Votann are not interested in correcting them.

[Orange Knight]

The votann are clearly a human sub species. They are classed as Xenos.

 

Their culture is divergent from the Imperium, but also oddly similar in the way they cling on to the past and are in gradual decline.

 

The AdMech and certain elements within the Imperium must surely be aware of this fact, even if they don't know about the STCs. They would have acquired Votann specimens over the ages.

 

In a funny way, the Votann are worse than the Imperium. In effect they revere and worship ancient AI constructs that were designed to serve humanity. Their culture is a twisted parody of what humanity is supposed to be. The AdMech fall into the same trappings, but they are only one aspect of the Imperium - not it's entire identity. 

Edited June 21 by Orange Knight

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Why would you want to be? An open mind is simply an unguarded Fortress. The galaxy belongs to humanity and humanity alone. You can cry about the Emperor or accept the truth that he was right. 

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

On the one hand, Guilliman quite literally has Elrad on Speed Dial and a Farseer on his personal retinue (who shares a name with the Ultramarine's Half-Eldar Chief Librarian from back in the OldHammer days), so despite not really trusting the Aeldari he certainly finds them useful enough to have on-hand.

 

On the other hand, Jagatai Khan has yet to leave the webway and for all we know he's hit it off with the Harlequins or Corsairs and is just having the time of his life flying around the webway and dunking on Deldar.