New box vs addon sprues

[Theduke08]

Greetings!

 

What is everyone thinking about the upcoming Blood Angels refresh?  Are we going to get a brand new Death Company box or just get some assault intercessors with an upgrade sprue.  Im leaning towards a full reimagining of the classic box.  

[Helias_Tancred]

I think we're going to get new sculpts for Astorath, Lemartes, and the Sanguinor (fingers crossed I'd love to see a new Sanguinary Priest too!). We will get a new primaris sanguinary guard kit and it will be a big deal!  We'll get an upgrade sprue kit like what Black Templars, and now Dark Angels, received as well. 

 

Firstborn death company will still exist through 10th edition. They will be gone next edition though. No new Death Company box but there will be rules for primaris death company with jump packs (that is the writing on the wall for the firstborn). 

 

I left Team Baal back in October of last year, but I've been a BA player and collection owner since getting into the hobby back around 2012, and I want one more 40k collection to go alongside my Black Templars and all signs indicate it will be a ~5k Blood Angel collection (I already went out and bought Dante and Mephiston fyi). 

 

Edited June 18 by Helias_Tancred

[Theduke08]

34 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

I think we're going to get new sculpts for Astorath, Lemartes, and the Sanguinor (fingers crossed I'd love to see a new Sanguinary Priest too!). We will get a new primaris sanguinary guard kit and it will be a big deal!  We'll get an upgrade sprue kit like what Black Templars, and now Dark Angels, received as well. 

 

Firstborn death company will still exist through 10th edition. They will be gone next edition though. No new Death Company box but there will be rules for primaris death company with jump packs (that is the writing on the wall for the firstborn). 

 

I left Team Baal back in October of last year, but I've been a BA player and collection owner since getting into the hobby back around 2012, and I want one more 40k collection to go alongside my Black Templars and all signs indicate it will be a ~5k Blood Angel collection (I already went out and bought Dante and Mephiston fyi). 

 

 

I think you are spot on except for the Death Company box.  I feel like they are the wildcard addition to this release.  

 

I also would be shocked if we dont see a Sanguinary Priest as its such an iconic/unique unit.  

[Helias_Tancred]

The reason I don't think a new primaris Death Company box is in the works is because of the chapter sprue kit that is. In that kit you will get parts that better convert primaris kits to Death Company (intercessors, jump pack intercessors, etc), including hand flamer, inferno pistol, thunder hammer, etc plus additional BA thematic shoulder pads. 

 

I'm sizing my predictions for what new Blood Angel stuff there will be based on what the Dark Angels received. But we could get another unit kit?

Edited June 18 by Helias_Tancred

[Paladin777]

I'd be incredibly surprised if the FB DC dataslates stay in the codex. Other than that, I'd guess you're probably right. 
 

I honestly think the BA specific boxnaughts are the real wild card. 

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

I'd be incredibly surprised if the FB DC dataslates stay in the codex. 

 

I agree. Dark Angels lost their DW Command squads among other things, despite their being in the Index so I am not holding out high hopes.

[Helias_Tancred]

19 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

I'd be incredibly surprised if the FB DC dataslates stay in the codex. Other than that, I'd guess you're probably right. 
 

I honestly think the BA specific boxnaughts are the real wild card. 

 

To your first comment, I think that too but I didn't feel strong enough in it to say it. lol.

 

Last comment, excellent point! I totally overlooked it.

 

[DemonGSides]

Yeah I think boxnaughts survive through edition, DC becomes an upgrade sprue in a 5 man Jump Pack intercessor kit, and Sanguinary Guard are our real Update unit. Heroes are in flux, I'm guessing Lemartes, Astorath and Sanguinary, we retain Corbulo as is but also get a primaris Sanguinary Priest, though with AoS recently leaning on dual hero/epic character kits might mean GW is more open to that and we see Corbulo/SP combo kit. 

Edited June 19 by DemonGSides

[ThaneOfTas]

DC will just be an upgrade sprue for intercessors, both jump and assault. 

 

Firstborn DC wont be in the codex.

 

Box-naughts i think will be in this editions but not next edition. If we are very, very lucky we might get rules for a DC Brutalis, but ithat might just be wishful thinking. honestly im going to paint mine as DC regardless so it doesn't super matter.

 

Sang guard are getting a new kit, hopefully it wont be bland and lacking in options, but I'm calling it even odds at best.

 

Sanguinor will be getting a new model, and im expecting him to be a big boy.

 

Astorath, Lemartes, Corbulo and Tycho are the wildcards.

 

I fully expect Tycho to be removed, let the poor guy rest.

 

Either Astorath or Lemates will get an update this edition, i think rumours are leaning towards Lemartes currently. I don't expect to lose either from the codex.

 

Corbulo/Sang Priest are at the biggest risk i think. Dark Angels lost Interrogator Chaplains as a unique datasheet, Sang priests could go the same way, just becoming fancy looking apothocaries. On the other hand, a dual kit for Corbulo and a generic Sang Priest could also be very possible. they've been doing stuff like that more nd more lately, so its not unreasonable.

[CastellanDeMolay]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:56 AM, ThaneOfTas said:

DC will just be an upgrade sprue for intercessors, both jump and assault. 

Looking at what they're doing with Stormcast in AoS in the new edition, I wonder if GW might make something like that for SM which could, with the use of a chapter specific upgrade sprue, represent Primaris versions of a few different, albeit somewhat analogous units, like Death Company, Sable Eye, Wulfen, etc. Monkey's paw time: Is it worth sharing a kit in order to get new DC minis? 

[Blindhamster]

I fully expect death company to be an upgrade sprue, or rather, I expect our chapter upgrade sprue to heavily emphasise death company rather than our line troops - which makes me sad in many ways, I want nice line troop stuff, and I would rather just pain models black with painted on saltires personally.

 

i am intrigued about lemartes and corbulo as I think others may be right and we might get the AoS or Lazarus treatment and have those two characters as kits that build a regular jump chaplain and a generic sanguinary priest.

 

i think our actual new unit kit will be sanguinary guard because their armour is unique enough to warrant it. I don’t think we will get two actual kits, unlike BT and DA.

 

- upgrade sprue that focuses pretty heavily on death company gear, likely has a couple unique looking melee weapons (hopefully at least one sword, like @Sete I need me swords!), I think we may get chapter specific assault intercessors style pads, as a nod to our love of jump infantry.

- sanguinary guard that probably has a slightly different unit footprint to current (look at the other elite bodyguard type units), probably a nice assortment of bare heads between these and the upgrade sprue though which will be nice.

- characters

- lemartes apparently is a consistent rumour even though I don’t think he needs an update model wise and lore wise if he goes primaris it would be weird, so probably won’t, or they’re just going to hand wave it

- astorath or sanguinor have both been rumoured. I think we will get one but not the other this edition. I personally think that’s “all” we get though. A notably smaller update than BT and DA

[DemonGSides]

Lemartes doesn't have to go Primaris, just a scale refresh. Literally just boost the size of his current model in CAD or whatever they use to do modelling and release it in plastic and I'd be thrilled.

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Lemartes doesn't have to go Primaris, just a scale refresh. Literally just boost the size of his current model in CAD or whatever they use to do modelling and release it in plastic and I'd be thrilled.

Depends if they want to go the double kit approach and make it also the jump chaplain kit I guess, have we had a character refresh that wasn’t made primaris yet? (Outside of grey knights)? Was the deathwing guy confirmed to have crossed or not? I know he was “mortally wounded” but don’t know if he also crossed the rubicon.

[DemonGSides]

26 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Depends if they want to go the double kit approach and make it also the jump chaplain kit I guess, have we had a character refresh that wasn’t made primaris yet? (Outside of grey knights)? Was the deathwing guy confirmed to have crossed or not? I know he was “mortally wounded” but don’t know if he also crossed the rubicon.

 

Named characters I think have all crossed the Rubicon, which is definitely a stick in the craw.  But I'm hoping with the combination of the Terminator "Who knows what kind of marine is wearing the armor" and the Black Templars getting a scattershot of both, we might see them feel a little less inclined to force everything into Primaris.  Like, the BT Castellan was, at release, emphatically mentioned to not be Primaris as he did not release with a Primaris keyword.  Now a days, he has the Tacticus Keyword, so he's basically a Primaris, but at least on release he was specifically non Primaris.

 

So yes and no.  I wouldn't mind a double kit approach, but I really liked Lemartes as he is currently, and I like what the Jump Chaplain looks like currently, and they aren't very similar (Some armor similarities, but the Jump Packs being the huge difference).  I can't imagine we get another Blood Angels Jump Chaplain like we did previously, so i'd expect any new Jump Chap to be a lot more generic, and not be able to just build Lemartes out of it.

[Blindhamster]

The castellan was actually specifically called out as “use as either” to be fair. And belial is lore wise confirmed as having crossed the rubicon.

 

it could well be he doesn’t cross the rubicon, it just seems unlikely considering the current trend is all.

 

Im thinking a generic jump chaplain is coming as it’s in the marine codex. Wonder if it may actually be that our upgrade kit comes with things to make a new generic character “lemartes” - not what I’d want necessarily but could imagine it.

 

Lemartes as he stands now is overall fairly generic looking really, details like the Binet are totally reasonable to expect on any chaplain for example… 

 

based on the new rumour @Chapter Master Valrak dropped about sanguinary guard, it sounds like the wing style jump packs are going have now are going and ones like Dante has are the direction anyway

[LemartestheLost]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

 

based on the new rumour @Chapter Master Valrak dropped about sanguinary guard, it sounds like the wing style jump packs are going have now are going and ones like Dante has are the direction anyway

 

I may actually fall to the Black Rage if we get puny Dante Jump pack wings on the new Sang Guard. Like, hey GW, maybe the folks who picked this faction because they enjoy the whole angel/wing aesthetic would like the new models to have the wings the unit is known for? It's just soul crushing to watch them miss a layup like this. The death masks gotta be perfect recreations of the original sculpts or else they're just selling jump pack intercessors painted gold. Going to be really bummed when we lose our flavor after the codex.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

The castellan was actually specifically called out as “use as either” to be fair. And belial is lore wise confirmed as having crossed the rubicon.

 

it could well be he doesn’t cross the rubicon, it just seems unlikely considering the current trend is all.

 

Im thinking a generic jump chaplain is coming as it’s in the marine codex. Wonder if it may actually be that our upgrade kit comes with things to make a new generic character “lemartes” - not what I’d want necessarily but could imagine it.

 

Lemartes as he stands now is overall fairly generic looking really, details like the Binet are totally reasonable to expect on any chaplain for example… 

 

based on the new rumour @Chapter Master Valrak dropped about sanguinary guard, it sounds like the wing style jump packs are going have now are going and ones like Dante has are the direction anyway

 

The Castellan was never given a designation either way by GW directly, just lots of internet speculation and then WarCom called him a Primaris on Twitter at one point.  I don't really consider Twitter postings from the marketing team as my end all be all for GW decisions, but at least on original release it was left murky.  I don't think there was any concern that Belial was anything but Primaris; he's explicitly stated as such.  The Castellan never was; Helbrecht was, as was Grimaldus, but they've also been moving more towards a "who cares" approach, at least superficially, for a lot of this stuff so I was hoping Lemartes might be able to keep his FB status (Since I think putting an active Black Rage sufferer through the Rubicon is one layer too many of "AND YET SOMEHOW HE SURVIVES" without making it just a laughable 'procedure' it's already started to become).

 

I just think it'd be weird and against the spirit of what a Death Company is for; they're our glorious dead who haven't quite figured out they're dead yet; I would think the Rubicon would be the last thing on the mind for anyone still FB and in the DC, personally.

 

 

The generic JumpChap being Lemartes is exactly the scenario I don't want.  BA Chaplains are just different enough to not want them to be genericized; the Jump Chap we have is one of our coolest models.  I think the Corbulo/Sang Priest double kit makes WAY more sense.

 

A Generic Jump Chap and then a separate Lemartes is fine, even if they do "primaris" him. I just don't see the point of adding the dreaded P label; just makes people angry for no reason.  Lemartes is the opposite of Generic, even though he has some pretty standard kit; a very bespoke pose, a crozius that incorporates a chalice (no other model has that), even his skull helm incorporating the BA Sunburst is pretty bespoke.  I would hate to lose his bits of flavor just to get a dual kit out the door when the dual kit would have to be so generic that he'd lose all of his Saltires and Blood Angel iconography.

 

 

Sanguinary Guard will end up having full nipple plate so they'll be plenty different from JPAI.  I never put the wings on mine anyways as they felt kinda tacked on.  I would rather them do something different than Dante though, if for no other reason than Dante has always looked DIFFERENT than Sanguinary Guard, even though they share similar color schemes of Gold.  He's always had the traditional style JP and the SG we've had for so long have the Heresy era jump packs.  I'm fine with losing those style of jump packs, but give us SOMETHING fancy on top of the nipple plate they're gonna come with, otherwise we're gonna look like scrubs compared to something like the ICC, who look dope as hell for what DA have as motifs.

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, LemartestheLost said:

I may actually fall to the Black Rage if we get puny Dante Jump pack wings on the new Sang Guard. Like, hey GW, maybe the folks who picked this faction because they enjoy the whole angel/wing aesthetic would like the new models to have the wings the unit is known for? It's just soul crushing to watch them miss a layup like this. The death masks gotta be perfect recreations of the original sculpts or else they're just selling jump pack intercessors painted gold. Going to be really bummed when we lose our flavor after the codex.

As a blood angel player from back as far as 2nd edition, I mind it less, Dante has the iconic look to me, moreso than sanguinary guard. I'm actually hoping the new sanguinary guard might have armour that is far closer to Dantes (so more sleak than typical power armour). So long as they're muscled and have nice details I'll probably be pretty happy. I don't see losing the big wings as losing flavour personally, but we'll see!

 

55 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

The Castellan was never given a designation either way by GW directly, just lots of internet speculation and then WarCom called him a Primaris on Twitter at one point.  I don't really consider Twitter postings from the marketing team as my end all be all for GW decisions, but at least on original release it was left murky.  I don't think there was any concern that Belial was anything but Primaris; he's explicitly stated as such.  The Castellan never was; Helbrecht was, as was Grimaldus, but they've also been moving more towards a "who cares" approach

The castellan was either or, at your preference, that was kind of the point (and honestly, for generic characters is the best approach), I'd agree that the base design was VERY firstborn though, because of the  art it was based on.

 

57 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

for a lot of this stuff so I was hoping Lemartes might be able to keep his FB status (Since I think putting an active Black Rage sufferer through the Rubicon is one layer too many of "AND YET SOMEHOW HE SURVIVES" without making it just a laughable 'procedure' it's already started to become).

Lemartes special thing is that despite succumbing, he has moments (even long ones) of lucidity where he isn't consumed by the rage (unlike everyone else), this is shown really nicely in his writeups but even moreso in the novel "Lemartes: Guardian of the Lost". Maybe they'll go the mephiston route and see if somehow the rubicon gives him more control, who knows. Or maybe they wont mention the rubicon and he'll gain the tacticus keyword, or maybe he'll stay outright firstborn, I feel the last one is least likely due to the direction the codex has been going for multiple editions now.

 

59 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

I just think it'd be weird and against the spirit of what a Death Company is for; they're our glorious dead who haven't quite figured out they're dead yet; I would think the Rubicon would be the last thing on the mind for anyone still FB and in the DC, personally.

Lemartes is a special case, per above. But yeah I agree with other folk that this will bethe book that current firstborn death company rules go away most likely, I just don't see them continuing to sell the existing unit.

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

I just don't see the point of adding the dreaded P label;

I suspect, if anything the tacticus keyword is more likely than the P label these days.

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

  Lemartes is the opposite of Generic, even though he has some pretty standard kit; a very bespoke pose, a crozius that incorporates a chalice (no other model has that), even his skull helm incorporating the BA Sunburst is pretty bespoke.  I would hate to lose his bits of flavor just to get a dual kit out the door when the dual kit would have to be so generic that he'd lose all of his Saltires and Blood Angel iconography.

Thats fair. That said:

- we've seen crozius with multiple options now

- multiple heads are the norm with characters

- even unique shoulder pads and/or leg fronts wouldn't be totally crazy

 

And to be fair, including in an upgrade kit: special crozius arm, special head, two special shoulder pads and maybe even a leg front panel (or two) would cover the above potentially.

 

p.s. I hate sculpted saltires personally, so wouldn't be sad to see those go from the range entirely lol.

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

Sanguinary Guard will end up having full nipple plate so they'll be plenty different from JPAI.  I never put the wings on mine anyways as they felt kinda tacked on.  I would rather them do something different than Dante though, if for no other reason than Dante has always looked DIFFERENT than Sanguinary Guard, even though they share similar color schemes of Gold.  He's always had the traditional style JP and the SG we've had for so long have the Heresy era jump packs.  I'm fine with losing those style of jump packs, but give us SOMETHING fancy on top of the nipple plate they're gonna come with, otherwise we're gonna look like scrubs compared to something like the ICC, who look dope as hell for what DA have as motifs.

As I said to our fellow frater above, I'm personally hoping for more unique looking armour on the sanguinary guard, though I imagine they'll stick more closely to the existing/tycho design in actuality. Whats interesting is that the closest thing to official sanguinary guard for the heresy are apparently basic mk6 marines now haha (based on the "official" conversions from forgeworld). It is pretty interesting to see how they're going to end up honestly, the whole thing of an updated design means they're likely going to take queues from the other newer marine kits, for good or ill (I really hope they dont get the little "wings" on their legs like the captain got!)