What would be your ideal Black Library book?

[calgar101]

5 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

I love ad mech books, and i like when they explore the more Eastern Roman government style huge areas of the Imperium are modeled after.

 

So what i want is a book with lots of Mech, politics and of course when you mix them two things religion, so honestly there is only 1 place in the lore to go.

 

The Moirae Schism, step right up folks for a classic tale of imperium of man infighting where every one is both the bad and good guy at the same time. 

 

You have it all, exploration of the very nature of the mechanicus as a religious organization, the nature of centralised - decentralised power structure and its relationship to the wider imperium.

 

But then you throw the special sauce into the mix, The Moirae schismatics were canonically on to something, they may not have understood it correctly, they may not have interpretative correctly, the core message may have gotten lost to their Ad mech wired brains. But they went looking into the light for answers and SOMETHING answered, and it dropped some truths on them. 

 

And like any religious fanatic who has seen the face of god they spread the good word, and boi oh boi did it spread. Suddenly you have Astartes, the Church and who knows who else involved. The conservative elements of leadership do what they always do when threatened and choose violence and the whole thing blows up into a hucckle that is as modern 40k still have repercussions.  

 

All the elements are there for a FANTASTIC (tho imperial centric) series ( i think 5 books would do). With a actual mystery at the heart of it that should never be solved. 

 

edit- I wanted to add for me, the dream is to play it straight, no chaos tricks, no it was the eldar all along. No it was the Leadership of Moirae doing some ploy to enact change in the ad mech. They looked into the light and the light answered.  The astronomicon is the source, the real mystery should be around what its actually saying and how the message is created.  And like all religious revelation how its interpreted. Then just have humans characters act like humans do and everything else will go full belly up naturally.  But the key thing is have the messages be real. I am so tired of third act 'it was chaos/ctan/old man withers' all along twists.

I would love this. My opinion is that it's one of the Emperor's many voices trying to fuse together two his largest supporter factions.

A trilogy or series on it and having it explored deeper would be great.

[grailkeeper]

Personally I'd like some books that focus more on the non combat side of things. Fight scenes are starting to blur into one. I prefer the likes of Dan Abnetts and Chris Wraight's work where you get a taste of day to day life. ADB used to say if he had free reign he'd write a Dark Eldar romance story but BL would never let him in a million years. I think a lot of people really like the books where we get to see bits of day to day life.

 

I wouldn't mind writing a BL novel myself 

 

If I were to write one, and if I were given free reign free from BLs usual constraints, I'd write a history novel. Look at a campaign or event not from the perspective of the protagonist but taking a more macro view sfter it happened. Perhaps the Heresy black books might be like this but I've never read one so I could be wrong. Otherwise maybe Casablanca but in the Eye of Terror.

 

Non GW authors I'd like to see write would include John Wagner, Bernard Cornwell and maybe Garth Ennis. John Wagners work wirh 2000ad basically invented grim dark. 40k could be described as Dune meets 2000ad. Bernard Cornwells books have been very influential on 40k authors. Grunts ghosts was influenced by Sharpe and the Black Legion series was influenced by the Winter King series. Garth Ennis can combine ultraviolet with bleak humour in a way I've loved since I was a teen.

Edited June 20 by grailkeeper

[darkhorse0607]

1 hour ago, grailkeeper said:

Personally I'd like some books that focus more on the non combat side of things. Fight scenes are starting to blur into one. I prefer the likes of Dan Abnetts and Chris Wraight's work where you get a taste of day to day life.

 

It's one of the reasons why I like Unremembered Empire so much, with the exception of the primarch superhero fight at the end. It's one of the few books, at least the few heresy books that let's you see a bit of the non-combat side of things

[Sothalor]

2 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Personally I'd like some books that focus more on the non combat side of things. Fight scenes are starting to blur into one. I prefer the likes of Dan Abnetts and Chris Wraight's work where you get a taste of day to day life. ADB used to say if he had free reign he'd write a Dark Eldar romance story but BL would never let him in a million years. I think a lot of people really like the books where we get to see bits of day to day life.

 

I wouldn't mind writing a BL novel myself 

 

If I were to write one, and if I were given free reign free from BLs usual constraints, I'd write a history novel. Look at a campaign or event not from the perspective of the protagonist but taking a more macro view sfter it happened. Perhaps the Heresy black books might be like this but I've never read one so I could be wrong. Otherwise maybe Casablanca but in the Eye of Terror.

 

Non GW authors I'd like to see write would include John Wagner, Bernard Cornwell and maybe Garth Ennis. John Wagners work wirh 2000ad basically invented grim dark. 40k could be described as Dune meets 2000ad. Bernard Cornwells books have been very influential on 40k authors. Grunts ghosts was influenced by Sharpe and the Black Legion series was influenced by the Winter King series. Garth Ennis can combine ultraviolet with bleak humour in a way I've loved since I was a teen.

 

You are missing out on the old Forgeworld campaign publications. The Horus Heresy 1.0 Black Books were probably their peak form, but stuff like the Siege of Vraks trilogy and the Badab War duology were just absolute *chef's kiss* in terms of "in-setting" presentations.

 

Campaign overviews written as in-universe historical narratives pieced together, in-narrator speculation for events with no surviving or known eye-witnesses, unit blurbs presented as technical documents, even book artwork spreads presented as in-setting propaganda pieces.

 

Far less of the blase, blow-by-blow "Heroic Named Character 1 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) indecisively duels Heroic Named Character 2 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) in the midst of Big Battle" sludge that the GW studio puts out, and more stuff like "Records indicate this person participated in this action, but eyewitness accounts are unclear and contradictory as to what actually happened."

 

There's a sense of scale and mindfulness of things like logistics, theater-level strategic goals, institutional inertia, fog-of-war, the byzantine internal politicking of the Imperium, etc.

 

They're very different from a typical narrative novel, but in terms of world-building delight, such wonderful reads.

[grailkeeper]

23 minutes ago, Sothalor said:

 

You are missing out on the old Forgeworld campaign publications. The Horus Heresy 1.0 Black Books were probably their peak form, but stuff like the Siege of Vraks trilogy and the Badab War duology were just absolute *chef's kiss* in terms of "in-setting" presentations.

 

Campaign overviews written as in-universe historical narratives pieced together, in-narrator speculation for events with no surviving or known eye-witnesses, unit blurbs presented as technical documents, even book artwork spreads presented as in-setting propaganda pieces.

 

Far less of the blase, blow-by-blow "Heroic Named Character 1 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) indecisively duels Heroic Named Character 2 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) in the midst of Big Battle" sludge that the GW studio puts out, and more stuff like "Records indicate this person participated in this action, but eyewitness accounts are unclear and contradictory as to what actually happened."

 

There's a sense of scale and mindfulness of things like logistics, theater-level strategic goals, institutional inertia, fog-of-war, the byzantine internal politicking of the Imperium, etc.

 

They're very different from a typical narrative novel, but in terms of world-building delight, such wonderful reads.

 

That sounds brilliant.

 

I was struck by how good a history book would be as a means of tellilng Warhammer stories when I read Anthony Beevors book on the battle of the Bulge (Actually now that I think about it he'd be my no 1 non- GW author to write a GW book). 

 

He mentioned that during the battle of the Bulge BAR gunners would fire a burst then immediately roll to the side. The reason for this was because the Germans would recognise the sound then immediately open fire on where it was coming from as a priority. If they didn't roll fast they'd end up dead. Imagine that being offered as another reason why Plasma gunners have short life expectancies. 

Edited June 20 by grailkeeper

[calgar101]

2 hours ago, Sothalor said:

 

You are missing out on the old Forgeworld campaign publications. The Horus Heresy 1.0 Black Books were probably their peak form, but stuff like the Siege of Vraks trilogy and the Badab War duology were just absolute *chef's kiss* in terms of "in-setting" presentations.

 

Campaign overviews written as in-universe historical narratives pieced together, in-narrator speculation for events with no surviving or known eye-witnesses, unit blurbs presented as technical documents, even book artwork spreads presented as in-setting propaganda pieces.

 

Far less of the blase, blow-by-blow "Heroic Named Character 1 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) indecisively duels Heroic Named Character 2 (Model Available on Warhammer.com) in the midst of Big Battle" sludge that the GW studio puts out, and more stuff like "Records indicate this person participated in this action, but eyewitness accounts are unclear and contradictory as to what actually happened."

 

There's a sense of scale and mindfulness of things like logistics, theater-level strategic goals, institutional inertia, fog-of-war, the byzantine internal politicking of the Imperium, etc.

 

They're very different from a typical narrative novel, but in terms of world-building delight, such wonderful reads.

Those were not handled by Black Library though, they had game designers writing them. However if that is an option, then yes please! The Imperial Armour series and the Horus Heresy black books are fantastic. More expansion of the 40k lore via Imperial Armour books is needed.

[DukeLeto69]

If we are wishlisting…

 

1. Proper commitment to letting Fehervari just do his thing over as many novels as he wants!

 

2. More Sabbat Worlds by Abnett AND other authors. Inc Interceptor City. More Gaunt's Ghosts.

 

3.  Pandaemonium by Abnett.

 

4. Watchers of the Throne 3 by Wraight.

 

5. Black Legion 3 by ADB.

 

6. Apostasy era books by multiple authors as a setting not a sequential series.

[Sothalor]

While we're generically wishlisting, I really wouldn't mind some follow-ups to the Crime lineup of characters. It seemed like they were going that direction with all their "A [character] novel" subtitles, but... we never got any more Zidarov or Noctis and Lux or Quilon Drask.

 

And really, Crime was one of their standout lines for showcasing "domestic" affairs in 40k. Unfortunately, I get the sense the Crime line just isn't as popular with the typical audience of readership, and that may have something to do with the lack of follow-ups.

[Bobss]

End of Empires, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. Sequel to Black Legion, part 3 of the Black Legion series and finale of its first trilogy collection.

 

About a dozen years or so after the events of Black Legion, we find Abaddon's forces rampaging across the Segmentum Obscurus. The Chaos forces, including fragments of Daravek's Legion Host, have been enjoying themselves, but Imperial resistance is stiffening - most notably from the Imperial Fists Chapter and a resurgent Black Templars. As this tale's narrator, we are immediately reintroduced to Khayon and co. who are themselves dropping onto an industrial world. They're here to reinforce Valicar, Ceraxia and Vortigern who not only need reinforcing but developing a little bit as characters! They're overseeing usual Chaos things: shipping off an entire planet's/system's raw materials, billions of (trillions? quadrillions? Moonreaper?) slaves and whatnot. Maybe Imperial forces are already on the planet - maybe Imperial forces have just broken into the system; I don't know. Khayon runs into a Grey Knights strikeforce, who we learn have been chasing him for the past decade and almost cornered him on several occasions. This parodies the beginning of Black Legion, where Khayon is attempting to assassinate Thagus Daravek. Khayon fights the boys in grey, his magic is weaker than outside the Eye, we learn more about the relationship a Tzeentchian warlord would develop with the newfound Ordo Malleus. Maybe they even refer to him as Ygethmor - who knows. Khayon survives, there's lots of exposition about how the war is going, we're treated to more delicious anecdotes about how the Chaos Legionaries are doing in the M31.700s.

 

We then rejoin with Abaddon at some kind of fleet mustering in realspace. We see all of the Ezekarion at a war council. In the same way these guys were more mutated in Black Legion than in Talon., they're even more mutated. There's a few new faces and a few new warbands. Khayon has a pose of Possessed Marines. Telemachon is decked out in more bling. Amurael is a Dreadnought now. Lheor is still Lheor. Abaddon talks about Drach'nyen, the Tower of Silence etc. and the purpose of the Crusade. Allied Chaos Warchiefs don't like this and either want to keep plundering or strike Terra. They quickly clear off and the Black Legion heads to the Tower of Silence in either a warp rift/or a section of the Webway. The place is very weird and the Black Legion have to fight their way through it, for what is basically years. There's tons of dream-like stuff, and the Tower pulls heavily on its historical namesake. Eventually Abaddon - and Khayon, as our tale's pair of eyes - encounter the Golden Figure. Sadly this isn't the Deceiver, but is Ra. It's resolved [somehow].

 

In the final third/quarter of the story, Abaddon and the bulk of the Black Legion are on a planet in the Eye. Maybe it's New Lupercalios or New New Lupercalios. With Drach'nyen en toe, Khayon remarks that Abaddon is increasingly distant [foreshadowing for the next arc - to be written when the Winds of Winter and Doors of Stone are released!) and the warp is drastically different around him. The roguish figure on pilgrimage in book 1 has been replaced by someone closer to Horus in his final days. Abaddon isn't a husk or anything, but he's simply operating on a different frequency. To complete this change, the Demon Primarchs are all summoned (or, physically arrive). There's lots of lovely descriptions of them, and we get delicious clarity on who and what Perturabo and Lorgar are now. Mortarion almost kills the Ezekarion with his plagues. The DPs all bow to Abaddon, minus Magnus. Cue the Kingbreaker scene. Magnus kneels. Abaddon becomes the champion of Chaos Ascendant, completing his transformation from First Captain to the Despoiler.

 

In the epilogue Khayon further remarks on Abaddon being elevated to a higher purpose. He's not a DP or anything like that, but with Drach'nyen, the Long War has taken on almost Biblical undertones as Abaddon continues to stare into the Astronomicon and do battle with the Emperor as the chief of His fallen angels. Khayon remarks that the Ezekarion-factions in the Legion are growing stronger and expects all-out factional warfare between his and Telemachon's factions.

Edited June 21 by Bobss

[DukeLeto69]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:46 PM, Sothalor said:

While we're generically wishlisting, I really wouldn't mind some follow-ups to the Crime lineup of characters. It seemed like they were going that direction with all their "A [character] novel" subtitles, but... we never got any more Zidarov or Noctis and Lux or Quilon Drask.

 

And really, Crime was one of their standout lines for showcasing "domestic" affairs in 40k. Unfortunately, I get the sense the Crime line just isn't as popular with the typical audience of readership, and that may have something to do with the lack of follow-ups.

Damn I forgot WH Crime in my wishlisting! Absolutely 100% this. Follow ups to Wraight’s and Haley’s novels at the very least!

[lansalt]

There are several important series with missing endings/sequels waiting to be released that have been already mentioned (Black Legion 3, etc). More from the top of my head:

• More about the Lion and his return. The book we got was good, but we need more about him meeting Guilliman, or the Space Wolves, or going to Terra. More about changes in the DA instead of apparently keeping the  status quo in the DA codex.
• A follow up to Apocalypse by Josh Reynolds. It had huge implications that fit perfectly into Guilliman's conflict about faith in the Dark imperium novels. And since we're at it, bring back Reynolds to BL and let him write!
• An end to the Deathwatch series by Steve Parker. Talon squad and Karras's story deserve a proper finale.
• More about the EC and the return of Fulgrim. The last book was a bit of a dud, IMO.
• A clean up of the Space Wolves continuity. The chronologically latest stories are a mess right now. Did Stormcaller found and bring back the HH-era 13th company with all their gear and led by Bulveye or not?
• Speaking of fixes, a proper book about the Ynnari and the eldar.

 

 

 

[skylerboodie]

I'm sure I'm in the minority as most people seem to like the mystery, but I'd like to read more about an earlier period of The Emperor and Malcador setting up the Imperium, interspersed with some flashback scenes to earlier in their lives (their meeting/friendship, the Sigillites etc), perhaps including some Erda (now that she's in the lore anyway), in the form of a trilogy by Aaron Dembski-Bowden or Chris Wraight.

[Taliesin]

Absolutely agree, that would be one of my top 3 picks.

[Knockagh]

Browsing this forum again and came across this tread. Having not read BL in a a year or more now I admit to hankering after a good romp through the decaying imperium!

 

The new setting holds little appeal for me but as others have said the Badab War would be great. I have always loved the Eldar and more tales from their early days, particularly pre and leading into the fall would scratch a massive itch. Thorpes Jain Zar was marvellous and desperately needs fleshed out. 

 

One  of my frustrations with GW was the dropping of the forge world black books mid series. I felt completely betrayed when they stopped. I had invested so much in the heresy era. I doubt they could ever properly be finished although it would be nice if they made an effort. 
 

 

[DukeLeto69]

I got back into W40k in 2006 after having played in the late 80s-early 90s. It was a shelf full of Black Library books in Waterstones Trafalgar Square that did it and I bought the Eisenhorn omnibus.

 

Despite not buying a single mini, between 2006-2023 I must have spent £000s buying most BL releases, most rulebooks, codices, background books, art books. I have the full set of FFG RPG books. Full set of Forgeworld Imperial Armour books and HH Big Black Books. Heck I even took to eBay to backfill my gaps in rulebooks and codices between 2nd and 4th edition plus BFG, Necromunda, Titanicus. In other words, in terms of GW products produced on paper, I own an almost comprehensive collection.

 

This year I have purchased two books. Both BL; tEatD 3 and Sea of Souls.

 

That’s it. Just two novels. GWs lack of proper marketing or fanbase engagement, the lack of excitement being generated, the stupid patronising Warcom content, the seeming lack of commitment to finishing book series already started, etc etc is simply sapping the enjoyment out of it for me. That makes me sad!

[The Scorpion]

On 6/20/2024 at 1:03 AM, DarkChaplain said:

 

I want him to finally get to write a novel about the Brotherhood of a Thousand, not to be confused with the Thousand Sons. He once mentioned some bits he was playing with conceptually, way back when, and it sounded great, unique and fascinating for a Space Marine Chapter. Sadly, it doesn't look like BL were on board with it, so we didn't get more than the little teaser in The Walker in Fire (iirc), with one of the Deathwatch guys being a Brother.

Walker in Fire left me absolutely impressed with it's Black Wing character, to the point I remember his name: Sevastin.

 

There is so little lore on the Black Wings, and yet Fehervari made a marine that is so utterly and clearly a Black Wing. Hands down the moment where I got convinced that Fehervari was GOATed

[grailkeeper]

I thought recently if GW wanted to continue books in the 30K setting they could do one for each legion. Not each primarch- they've done that. One about what the line grunts went through and the characters who otherwise havent had much spotlight. The main storyline has been completed so there's no need for each one to push the story on. They could have a bit set in the great crusade, reunion with with primarch and various different stages of the heresy. You could see real character development with gaps of decades in the story.

[Felix Antipodes]

I’ve been thinking about a series of bookend novels of late - two novels that cover the beginning and end of an event - rather than an ongoing series.  For example book one would cover something like a significant event in 30/40K like the Nova Terra Interregnum split and the second covering its fall.  There are several similar big event in the chronology (Morae schism, Age of Apostasy, etc) they could cover without getting bogged down in an endless series of books.  Just an idle thought… 

[The Scorpion]

It just occurred to me another book that I would love to write if I worked for BL, and had talent for writing in the first place, and well...

 

A story about the Sisters of Battle. I'd call it simply "Magdalene IX", and it'd be the tale of the fall of the eponymous planet. It is an existing lore event, a footnote in the Kastorel-Novem story.

 

Why do I think this would be interesting?

 

• Doomed mission: the Sororitas are the loyal servants of the Ecclesiarchy, but the plan to defend this shrine world was poorly thought out. Saving Magdalene IX was just not possible in hindsight. But hindsight is now. That book was then. Did the sisters zealously believed the world could be saved? Were they aware it was a stupid Ecclesiarchical move? What justification would they give themselves for this almost pointless martyrdom?

 

• Two sisters factions. Both the Order of the Argent Shroud and the Order of the Black Sepulchre were present at Magdalene IX. The Black Sepulchre is particularly interesting, and the POV of one of the factions could be used to explore and contrast the other 

 

• Foregone conclusion: Orks win. Orks are often used as fodder, and goofy comic relief (and rightfully so). But they deserve more poetrayals where they are truly monstrous and dangerous, which they are just as much as they are fooder and goofy. This book would have like a Helsreach vibe, exept the Imperials lose in the end. The protagonists would be clawing for a moral or symbolic victory, and that could be interesting too.

 

• Red Redemption: the shrine world was defended by thousands of these zealots. It'd be interesting to see how the sisters interact with this branch of the Imperial Creed deemed "too radical".

 

• Lore nuggets. I don't know if it fits the timeline. But the news of the failed raid on Kastorel-Novem would be a perfect setup for the darkest hour. The point where the ork supplies will not be cut off. Where the war can no longer be won. Where the characters from multiole backgrounds must accept that defeat is a foregone conclusion, and what to do with the time they have left.

In all of this, throw mentions of the Raven Guard, and of nearby Kiavahr.

Throw mentions of the Ork warlords.

Throw mentions of Necromunda, its ties with the Red Redemption.

Throw mentions of the Black Sepulchre's history.

Maybe sneak a reference to the Death Eagles?

 

I dunno. I feel its a footnote with hella potential.

[Scribe]

I, Emperor

 

Written by ADB AND Wraight, with a foreword by French.

 

Similar in size to Valdor, this book would cover the major sign post events of the Emperor's life.

 

Birth, and what it is to be a Gesalt Soul of the Shaman.

The fall of the tower of Babel.

Launching the Unification Wars.

His exploration of the Warp, and the beings we know as the Gods of Chaos.

His bargain/pact with the Gods.

The Launch of the Great Crusade.

His entombment, within the Golden Throne.

 

Mostly, I want to see the Tragedy that are his mistakes at all these moments or that led to these moments, made canon.

[DarkChaplain]

If we're on an Emperor history novel...

 

I'd add to that the Sigillites and Malcador in particular. We're supposed to have a whole line of Sigillites that Malcador is the last of, but we also have implied stuff from Horus that Mal was a warlord during the Unification Wars or somesuch. I want to know how and why the Emperor linked up with the Sigillites, if we're in that ballpark already.

 

In-between Babel and the Unification Wars, I'd put the long-implied Emperor/Arthur/Merlin stuff in there, and use it as a callback later. Maybe with the Georgius stuff about the Emperor subduing the Void Dragon. We've got the whole "king of ages" thing in TEATD now, via Abnett, might as well weave it into something more coherent. Plus, for a bit there, it seemed like Garro's Libertas was intended to be Excalibur or Caliburn or whichever it was.

 

Tie the narrative hooks together, if it has to be touched at all.

Edited August 5 by DarkChaplain

[Scribe]

2 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

If we're on an Emperor history novel...

 

I'd add to that the Sigillites and Malcador in particular. We're supposed to have a whole line of Sigillites that Malcador is the last of, but we also have implied stuff from Horus that Mal was a warlord during the Unification Wars or somesuch. I want to know how and why the Emperor linked up with the Sigillites, if we're in that ballpark already.

 

In-between Babel and the Unification Wars, I'd put the long-implied Emperor/Arthur/Merlin stuff in there, and use it as a callback later. Maybe with the Georgius stuff about the Emperor subduing the Void Dragon. We've got the whole "king of ages" thing in TEATD now, via Abnett, might as well weave it into something more coherent. Plus, for a bit there, it seemed like Garro's Libertas was intended to be Excalibur or Caliburn or whichever it was.

 

Tie the narrative hooks together, if it has to be touched at all.

 

I think the Excalibur bit was confirmed, and yeah I'd take all that.

[DukeLeto69]

16 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

I think the Excalibur bit was confirmed, and yeah I'd take all that.

Yeah count me in for that book too, although not sure about it being Valdor length, ie short novel. I think let Abnett write it and it will be split into five volumes ;-)

[DarkChaplain]

I think the idea / trick is to not let Abnett write it :')

[LemartestheLost]

Another book I’d love to see is an Iron Lords novel from Chris Wraight where the ‘nids hit the Grendl Stars and win/at least gain enough Barghesi DNA to evolve themselves. Maybe the Iron Lords enforce a penitent crusade upon themselves for their failure/ are forced to become fleet based etc, etc. Wraight handles subtext and footnotes from codexes/campaigns so well and I think he is a natural choice to flesh out a really cool and underrated chapter.