warhammer 10th edition June Balance Dataslate and Field Manual

[brother_b]

So is there a way to find the other balance data slates? The older ones?

 

I thought there was an update removing cybernetica datasmiths from giving “infantry” keyword to their robots.

 

I also thought there were other updated rules to over watch, etc.

 

Does a new  data slate just override all those old rules or something, or is there a main  data slate that has everything that’s been changed?

[MagicHat]

19 minutes ago, brother_b said:

So is there a way to find the other balance data slates? The older ones?

 

I thought there was an update removing cybernetica datasmiths from giving “infantry” keyword to their robots.

 

I also thought there were other updated rules to over watch, etc.

 

Does a new  data slate just override all those old rules or something, or is there a main  data slate that has everything that’s been changed?

 

Regarding the datasmith, that is now a codex rule removing infantry keyword while with the robots.

[Focslain]

24 minutes ago, brother_b said:

So is there a way to find the other balance data slates? The older ones?

 

I thought there was an update removing cybernetica datasmiths from giving “infantry” keyword to their robots.

 

I also thought there were other updated rules to over watch, etc.

 

Does a new  data slate just override all those old rules or something, or is there a main  data slate that has everything that’s been changed?

The change to Overwatch and other strats are in the Core Rules Update. It's a separate document to the Balance Dataslate. 

Located here

[Emperor Ming]

Some of the new cards are changed already........

[Halandaar]

Really helpful update. Lots of changes to lots of different things across lots of different factions is just what I was looking for to confirm my opinion that this edition is a complete train wreck and I will be steering clear of playing 40k for at least the next 2 years. 

[crimsondave]

4 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

Really helpful update. Lots of changes to lots of different things across lots of different factions is just what I was looking for to confirm my opinion that this edition is a complete train wreck and I will be steering clear of playing 40k for at least the next 2 years. 

Bright side is there are some really awesome new kits out there.  If I get done painting before 11th drops I’m gonna come up with some kind of HH - 10th edition hybrid system to play.  Even if the game worked, 10th seems more about fishing for lethal hits/dev wounds than anything else.  Hard pass for me but seems a lot of people enjoy it.  To each his own.

[Orange Knight]

One change I think we can all agree was great:

 

The Impulsor can now transport 7 models. It's suddenly very useful with a lot of viable, character supported units to move around.

[Focslain]

21 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

One change I think we can all agree was great:

 

The Impulsor can now transport 7 models. It's suddenly very useful with a lot of viable, character supported units to move around.

Repulsor get 14, so I can now field a small squad of aggessors lead by Calgar and Biologis support for large amount of lethal.

[DemonGSides]

58 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

One change I think we can all agree was great:

 

The Impulsor can now transport 7 models. It's suddenly very useful with a lot of viable, character supported units to move around.

 

Kinda wish it was 8 so you could do the Indomitus Blade guard+cap+LT, but 7 is okay.

 

We just need Pods up to 11 so my Hellblasters or Pyreblasters can drop with a buddy, or I could get a Honor Guard+Cap+full blade guard squad for a melee bomb out of the pod.

 

But it doesn't matter anyways as Captains got curb stomped. 

[Karhedron]

54 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

But it doesn't matter anyways as Captains got curb stomped. 

 

Sad but you were getting 2-3 in every list so some sort of nerf was inevitable. The annoying thing is that Captain are now objectively worse than Characters in other armies that just provide a flat +1CP per turn as that can be spent on anything or saved for future turns.  Captains used to have the advantage that they could pull off 2CP stratagems or double-dip on a particular strat if you needed to so there was balance. Now they are just flat out worse.

[Minsc]

On the Flipside, Chaplains (especially Terminator-variants) got indirectly buffed with the change to Dev. Wounds, so I can actually see myself field one now, instead of going with Librarians or Captains.

[Orange Knight]

I always preferred the Terminator Chaplain for the wound modifier.

 

The Deathwing Knights are, once again, the best Terminators. Durable and versatile in combat.

2 hours ago, Focslain said:

Repulsor get 14, so I can now field a small squad of aggessors lead by Calgar and Biologis support for large amount of lethal.

 

Odd that the Repulsor Executioner didn't get an increase to 7. 

 

The transport differences between the two variants are really apparent now. You get less than 50% of the space, but the firepower isn't doubled.

[crimsondave]

50 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I always preferred the Terminator Chaplain for the wound modifier.

 

The Deathwing Knights are, once again, the best Terminators. Durable and versatile in combat.

 

Odd that the Repulsor Executioner didn't get an increase to 7. 

 

The transport differences between the two variants are really apparent now. You get less than 50% of the space, but the firepower isn't doubled.

Good bet that just got forgotten/missed.

[Emperor Ming]

The whole pivoting thing I don't like, there's now 3 pages of examples on how to move models

 

It actually makes models with massive oval bases way way better, 

 

no longer will you have to loose a huge amount of movement on a charge

[Minsc]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I always preferred the Terminator Chaplain for the wound modifier.

 

You couldn't know, but I strictly play Firestorm (because Salamanders) so the +1 to wound from the Chaplain was just a worse version of the Captains free strat as they have a +1 to wound strat available to them anyway, and whenever they weren't in combat I could use that for something else like AoC, so the Captain offered both more utility and is a better beatstick, so there was no point in the Chaplain.

But now with the free strat nerfed and Chaplains' FnP working against Dev. Wounds again, they do look viable for sure, even in a Firestorm detachment. 

 

29 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

The whole pivoting thing I don't like, there's now 3 pages of examples on how to move models

 

It actually makes models with massive oval bases way way better, 

 

no longer will you have to loose a huge amount of movement on a charge

 

Its worth noting that Oval Base =/= Round Base, so they'd still have to pay movement for pivoting. 

[Emperor Ming]

11 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Its worth noting that Oval Base =/= Round Base, so they'd still have to pay movement for pivoting. 

only 2 inches thou, so 

 

I once charged a kill rig around a small ruin and it took 8 inches to turn the back of its base. 

 

So not a nerf at all for any units like that, even turning a tank, 2 inches is nothing. Even a 90 degree pivot would be more than 2

[chapter master 454]

Talking to guys at the club I go to, found out the pivoting thing is actually kind of silly because with Imperial Knights you can have the deep strike enhancment be an 8" charge instead of 9 which when talking 2D6 is a massive probability shift (going from about 27% to to 41% and that's not including for re-roll).

Though that even applies to arriving from reserve if you are mad enough to do that with knights.

 

we'll see how the shakes out, lots of things arriving all at the same time so I wager this is going to get volatile real quick in terms of whats good and whats not.

 

For what it's worth: the captains are still good because remember, you can now you the ability on ANY stratagem. Yes you can't double dip but regardless having another means of gaining CP is always good. Don't knock it.

[Special Officer Doofy]

12 hours ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

 

Would you rather go back to the "good ol' days" where codex were dead on arrival for multiple editions and we got little to no updates during said edition? These frequent and in depth updates are objectively a good thing, because it means GW are trying (if not succeeding) to keep the game balanced and healthy.

 

I think most people mad at the drastic updates are mad that they have to happen in the first place more so than they exist. There is no good reason why at the start of the edition there was a faction in the 70% win rate and multiple in the 30% when the previous edition ended with everything in the 45-55% window. I was able to see the #1 faction (Eldar) and the bottom two (DG and LoV) just from the faction preview without any point costs.

 

Frequent and in depth updates are not "objectively" a good thing. The only thing objective about it is the billion dollar company put out a bad product that was not remotely balanced or play tested enough and it has to be constantly updated. That's like arguing a contractor is good because they came back for free at a later day and fixed their mistakes on a job. An actual good contractor would not have messed up in the first place to have to come back.

 

I feel most people mad at the update are not arguing for going back editions when you didn't even get a codex update. They are mad that after 10 editions and 30+ years the billion dollar company still can't get it remotely right the first time and have to constantly update the game to make it playable and balanced. It also shines a light on how far behind technology wise they are by not offering a digital product that can be updated. Instead they offer very expensive books that go obsolete quickly and need pdf pages to be usable.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, chapter master 454 said:

Talking to guys at the club I go to, found out the pivoting thing is actually kind of silly because with Imperial Knights you can have the deep strike enhancment be an 8" charge instead of 9 which when talking 2D6 is a massive probability shift (going from about 27% to to 41% and that's not including for re-roll).

Though that even applies to arriving from reserve if you are mad enough to do that with knights.

 

we'll see how the shakes out, lots of things arriving all at the same time so I wager this is going to get volatile real quick in terms of whats good and whats not.

 

For what it's worth: the captains are still good because remember, you can now you the ability on ANY stratagem. Yes you can't double dip but regardless having another means of gaining CP is always good. Don't knock it.

 

It's not gaining a CP though, it's just sometimes not spending it. And one of the main benefits was double tapping with it; the cost reduction was the gravy, and the ability to reuse an ability was the real benefit. That's now gone. That's the real nerf. 

[chapter master 454]

3 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

It's not gaining a CP though, it's just sometimes not spending it. And one of the main benefits was double tapping with it; the cost reduction was the gravy, and the ability to reuse an ability was the real benefit. That's now gone. That's the real nerf. 

I would argue the opposite actually, the double tap was the gravy and the bonus CP was the real bonus but I suppose me and you see it differently. Personally the double tap function was always a little wonky and did require sequencing or you couldn't get it, so maybe something they are trimming.

To each their own, however never knock CP generation in any form and this change has made any character with these abilities able to generate CP that isn't limited by the 1 CP per battle phase. If you were especially set on getting max value from it, you could in theory get 20CP during a game. 10 naturally from the game, 5 from real CP generators and then 5 instances of using these abilties.

 

Though to reiterate, that's just my stance on it as largely a buff but to others (aka those who play Imperial Guard :P) will see it as a nerf.

[Mogger351]

3 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

. It also shines a light on how far behind technology wise they are by not offering a digital product that can be updated. Instead they offer very expensive books that go obsolete quickly and need pdf pages to be usable.

Whilst yes the codex is a dud, as would the cards be, my app is up to date and my lists recalculated immediately. So they do have that digital product, you just cannot buy it in isolation for some reason. 

 

That said some changes are always going to happen, nothing is perfect and sometimes a chang is needed in a products life.

 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be dramatically fewer, or that some should have been handled before day 1, but some of the points and changes are in response to new missions changing the value of some units.The pivot thing isn't something I believe they'd have thought to tackle that way day 1 anyway, nobody was demanding it AFAIK, it seems based of their observations at events of people not be able to do what GW expect.

[Special Officer Doofy]

35 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Whilst yes the codex is a dud, as would the cards be, my app is up to date and my lists recalculated immediately. So they do have that digital product, you just cannot buy it in isolation for some reason. 

 

It's so annoying that you can't just buy it digitally. For a company that wants to be more environmentally friendly, you'd think it would be higher on their priorities offering a more polished fully digital option. 

 

35 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

That said some changes are always going to happen, nothing is perfect and sometimes a chang is needed in a products life.

 

I agree. I hope my post read more of I'm not against the updates, more so its just stupid that the product wasn't better and more thoroughly tested in the first place. Take something like indirect fire for example. In a game where there are so many line of sight and terrain rules and interactions, you would think they would know the strength of indirect fire and the value it can have at the drawing board instead of nerfing it later in an edition. 

 

As long as the core rules and individual faction rules are good enough and tested, it should only take point tweaks to get everyone into that 45-55% win rate. It shouldn't take going back through and changing half a codex from 4+ BS to 3+ for example.

[Zoatibix]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Whilst yes the codex is a dud, as would the cards be, my app is up to date…

 

My app is also updated- and yet I still have this for my Archon’s ability. I have to have another document to tell me what the rule actually says.

 

I take your point that we can’t expect perfection but GW can’t keep up with all of the changes, either.

Edited June 21 by Zoatibix

[Xenith]

19 hours ago, Naryn said:

But when the rules--not the meta, but the actual rules of the game--change so frequently, every game is a learning game. I never get to feel like I've mastered my army the way I did in previous editions. So the games are less fun, so I play less, so I'm less motivated to paint, so I don't have any new models to show off on the table, so I play less...

 

Same sentiment here. They're both changing rules and points. They need to fix one and modify the other, what they're trying to do is match up two spinning plates, with no success. Everyone knows that the fastest way for two lost people to meet is for one to remain stationary, if both wander off looking for the other, they may never meet. Keep the core rules the same, any units that really benefit from core rules, increase the points. 

 

Again, a symptom of hiring video game designers for tabletop. 

[FarFromSam]

Marines had one build that required a very large monetary investment.   That build could compete and was not crushing GTs.  Rather than raise up other detachments, they killed the one that worked?

 

This is such a confusing,  muddled, mess of an edition, I'm impressed it is also so bland for some.  Record time for an edition to begin to break down.   Yikes.   

 

Digital bookkeeping would help, but by the time you get an army painted, GW has changed the rules and removed its teeth.  I want to like the game, help me understand.