Hopes for book 3

[Crablezworth]

So I still hope we get an faq or two before we see book 3 but I figured it'd be worth discussing what we're hoping for or expecting from the tallarn book. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about formations of legend, my fear is like the titans of legend in AT you will need some kind of special unit card or something to run them, though that seems less likely. 

 

There were hints at what sounded like an all tank or tank heavy game mode/scenario/mission set which would makes sense given the setting, a few months ago it'd be a game mode I'd probably turn my nose at but given how strong infantry have shown to be I'm sorta excited to have games with more armour or an entirely tank battle focus. 

 

The new units don't seem too amazing but the sicaran arcus seems cool, interested to see how the drills work. 

 

Lastly there were hints an environmental or new terrain rules or both and I think that's what I'm most excited for in terms of something that might help shake things up. If for example there's an environmental rule for the life eater virus, I'm hoping its something like infantry can only spend so long outside of a transports or structure without taking damage or just melting. 

 

What's everyone hoping for/expecting/wishing for? 

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

Insane Wishlist (a.k.a the Youtuber Clickbait Speculation):

Primarchs, Mechanicum army, First hints at Custodes and Daemons as alignment-locked minor factions, more types of Infantry for both SA and SM, Subfactions for SA, The "Tank Heavy/Only" gamemode being fully balanced on release and viable for tourney play.

 

Idealistic, but Reasonable Hope:

Some kind of rule to let allied SA benefit from your SM subfaction ability, Some keywords and abilities being adjusted for SA and SM tanks to allow them to actually do what they should on paper (Demolisher Cannon actually being able to "demolish" terrain, for example), The "Tank Heavy/Only" gamemode being at least somewhat functional on launch, Trenches as a new terrain feature giving some light benefits to infantry but leaving them more exposed than hiding inside a house does (probably an area terrain type thing), Some new Lore to fuel creative thinking and expand our setting knowledge a little, Formations of Legends are fun and fluffy to run but not gamebreaking.

 

Pessimistic and Realistic Guess:

More rules that are just Titanicus but again, Some kind of rule that invalidates the Arvus Lighter ramming tech, New Environmental Effects make the Ravenguard's "Infiltrate Everything" ability look fair and balanced in comparison, The "Tank Heavy/Only" gamemode is either broken entirely and nigh unplayable or somehow still results in Infantry Spam being the meta for the gamemode, Lore reprinted directly from one of the HH books with little to no edits at all, Some Formations of Legends are insanely busted and invalidate any other type of list in Competitive play for their faction (Think "Host of the Dragon Emperor" from MESBG being so OP it invalidated all other Easterling lists).

[Marshal Rohr]

-Veletarii and Vanguard Detachment

-Hermes Sentinels

-Assault Detachment with Breachers and Assault Squads

-Heavy Support Detachment with Anti-Infantry and Anti-Armor

-Mastodon

-Whirlwinds and Arcus

 

[apologist]

The things I'm most enthused about for Legions in general are more infantry sprues, so I'll echo @Marshal Rohr in his hopes for Breachers; along with different heavy weapons. I'm moderating by hopes, however, as they're rather against the grain of the Tallarn theme. I'd also like to see more classic vehicles like Whirlwinds and Hunters get a spin.

 

The game seems more than crunchy enough for my tastes, so additional complexity through environmental rules is something I'm neutral about.

 

I like the idea of the pseudo-historical Formations of Legend; and hope that this will  tie into missions that aren't purely objective-based. Some asymmetrical missions would be lovely, and would seem to fit the theme.

[DuskRaider]

Assault Terminators would be cool, something with Rend. Honestly, we need Super Heavy tanks for Astartes… I’m kinda surprised we haven’t seen FelBlade and Spartan chassis variants yet. 
 

I am excited for an all-tank mode. Originally I was quite excited for the Infantry, but I think at this point their OP nature has kind of pulled me out of the immersion and I would prefer to focus on tank column battles instead until something is reworked. I’d love to see GW put out some kind of expansion for AT to include tanks as I feel it would give a little more depth and also give Knights something to reliably kill lol. 
 

I am curious as to what the Formations of Legend will entail. Perhaps it will give us more Legion rules to balance things out a bit more and even start giving SA some of their own flavor, though I don’t know how it would work since I think more of Imperial Guard / Army like Tallarn Desert Rats, Steel Legion, Krieg etc. 

 

I’m expecting the Environmental effects to be a lot like the Titanicus Open Engine rules, which can be a lot of fun to use. I’m wondering if they’ll go down that route again and give us Planetary effects as well. 

[apologist]

Terminators are a good call, @DuskRaider – I'd like to see them, and they seem a bit better suited to Tallarn. 

 

Thinking about it further, I'd like to see a game mode or set of environmental rules which, for *MacGuffin reasons*, allows them to 'patch' a few oddities, like the speed of infantry when they march. Together with being on boards with fewer intact buildings, I think infantry would naturally be less overbearing.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's so weird on the infantry front.

 

Nothing adds visual granularity like infantry; they're the smallest models and they really help show off the big ones with proportionality. The initial wave of masses of vehicles also made infantry kinda a cool, underexplored option, and were generally far easier to build as a nice bonus.

 

But, theyre really, really powerful. Not just ogryns, but basically everything that has the infantry unit type outside of like, pure las tercios. They move super fast,can take transports for even more speed, can garrison buildings for heavy durability, get in the way, can have some horrific shooting (looking at you marine heavy supports and every tarantula/rapier), and have some devastating melee as well. Theyre also dirt cheap in points, to a degree that just doesn't add up when you actually compare what you get. The only downside to them is despite all that, they're incredibly expensive to buy from GW.

 

Basically it feels terrible to collect a single type of infantry due to cost (like terminators or assaults), feels terrible to paint and base it all for a list, and then feels terrible to play because you just mob stuff down with your insane cost efficiency. Maybe tallarn will be a pseudo balance point where infantry will be really punished, like they only have one turn out of a transport/garrison until the die. 

 

[Crablezworth]

I really hope that's how life eater virus works, like infantry in the open more than one turn just like melt or take some crazy casualties and flee towards the nearest structure or transport or something. 

[Crablezworth]

2 hours ago, apologist said:

Terminators are a good call, @DuskRaider – I'd like to see them, and they seem a bit better suited to Tallarn. 

 

Thinking about it further, I'd like to see a game mode or set of environmental rules which, for *MacGuffin reasons*, allows them to 'patch' a few oddities, like the speed of infantry when they march. Together with being on boards with fewer intact buildings, I think infantry would naturally be less overbearing.

 

Yeah its actually sort of nuts to think that in the entire terrain section not a single terrain type even slows infantry down. A problem with them being overbearing is certainly how fast they are but its also that, because they can charge, blind (without los) around a corner or from behind a big los blocker, that 10 inch charge is just too much imo. GW's big hope was that the balance would be like overwatching with pd weapons but that honestly is a big part of what ruins the larger games is just endless reactions, which is a bridge too far for me. I feel like cutting infantry charge to 5 would also make stuff like bikes feel a bit more special. Infantry almost never use their bolters or lasguns either because the range is often shorter or the same as their charge. Just always feels weird to take out like a heavy tank with a handful of baseline soldiers. 

[Crablezworth]

6 hours ago, apologist said:

The things I'm most enthused about for Legions in general are more infantry sprues, so I'll echo @Marshal Rohr in his hopes for Breachers; along with different heavy weapons. I'm moderating by hopes, however, as they're rather against the grain of the Tallarn theme. I'd also like to see more classic vehicles like Whirlwinds and Hunters get a spin.

 

The game seems more than crunchy enough for my tastes, so additional complexity through environmental rules is something I'm neutral about.

 

I like the idea of the pseudo-historical Formations of Legend; and hope that this will  tie into missions that aren't purely objective-based. Some asymmetrical missions would be lovely, and would seem to fit the theme.

 

My concern with adding more infantry is them feeling useful and well costed in the game, like I'm worried about breachers on account of what should likely be their claim to fame, survivability in close combat isn't really in play because for whatever reason gw just said no saves of any kind in combat, so unless they get some special rule exemption I'm not really sure how best they'd be able to represent them ruleswise. Similarly as much as I want more heavy weapons infantry for aux and marines, if they're not handled delicately and have the weapons stats be well considered/costed the concern is more of what we have now, no one wanting plasma, everyone wanting missile launchers. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

-Veletarii and Vanguard Detachment

-Hermes Sentinels

-Assault Detachment with Breachers and Assault Squads

-Heavy Support Detachment with Anti-Infantry and Anti-Armor

-Mastodon

-Whirlwinds and Arcus

 

 

Hermes sentinels would be interesting to see, definitely want to see mostodon eventually 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Only one thing is on my wishlist:

 

Tallarn featured epic tank battles? Then I want at last access to LRBT, Malcadors, Sicarans and Predators to bolster my models from the core box. Apart from that I need nothing else as there is still lots of stuff from the Great Slaughter book which is missing in my collection.

 

Ah, and a hope that GW is not stupid enough to try to emulate 30K HH with LI. We don´t need all the units from the 28mm version shoehorned into the epic game.

[Crablezworth]

10 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Only one thing is on my wishlist:

 

Tallarn featured epic tank battles? Then I want at last access to LRBT, Malcadors, Sicarans and Predators to bolster my models from the core box. Apart from that I need nothing else as there is still lots of stuff from the Great Slaughter book which is missing in my collection.

 

Ah, and a hope that GW is not stupid enough to try to emulate 30K HH with LI. We don´t need all the units from the 28mm version shoehorned into the epic game.

 

I tend to agree in terms of emulating hh, I only want new units if they add something beyond aesthetics to the game. Even the lrbt variants they previewed are sorta pushing it, I don't just want stuff to be a box ticking exercise with little thought put into the weapons/roll/cost of each new unit. 

[malika666]

I would love to see some models that don’t have a 32mm counterpart

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m surprised no one has made a Leviathan or Capitol Imperialis from a 32mm tank yet. That would be a blast to play against. I’ve been scoping out some toy kits to make the older models. 

[DuskRaider]

Speaking of ridiculously large models… I’m surprised that we haven’t seen an Imperator yet. It’s obviously doable, though I can see it being extremely expensive points and cost wise, but you would think they’d jump on that. I suppose Titandeath or The Great Slaughter would have been the best time to do it. 

[Crablezworth]

Well part of the reason I'm less than inspired to take too many more swings at making rules for some of the big stuff is I don't find the larger model rules terribly interesting. 

 

Apart from being big health bars that rarely even have to turn facing let alone move with access to long range powerful weapons they can split fire, there's not a lot going on there sadly. Warmaster is a bit too much and very undercoated so that doesn't really excite me for an imperator of the trend will be similar. I made some initial rules for the grimdark crodax's as like big slow transports that can carry a bunch of dudes but they're not very useful for the same reason the more expensive transports aren't that useful, who needs a transport with how much infiltrate is free and being able to run 15 inches, nothing ever slowing ya down. There'd still be an argument to be made that a big transport could provide protection but again because of how combat works its difficult to tempt someone to spend hundreds of points to carry and protect like 40-80pts of troops. 

 

 

I wish titans had a simple core mechanic like for every weapon they choose not to fire they can attempt to repair a wound or void shield early.  That and a bit more risk to those in proximity when they die. That and maybe cost the weapons to have them make more sense. Knights also need to make more sense. 

Edited June 28 by Crablezworth

[DuskRaider]

I’ll be real with you, I just want them to release an Imperator so I can use it in AT lol. Titans in LI are boring and either way too weak or way too powerful, there’s not much in between and even then they’re basically relegated to walking gun platforms with no unique abilities or anything to make them feel like Titans. 
 

I was hoping a Titan Maniple or Knight Household would be fun and interesting to play in LI, but sadly they’re just… not. Worst part is, Knights should be perfect for this game. They’re a bit too weak for the most part in AT so I figured LI would be their time to shine but it’s been anything but that. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, so much potential, so much imbalance.

In order to grow the game, we need a 2.0 on the rules ASAP.

[malika666]

I feel that an Imperator Titan might be a bit much, but indeed a Leviathan or Capitol Imperialis would be cool to see. The Hellbore and Mole also come to mind here. And if the Mechanicum will show up I'd like some Ordinatus vehicles.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, I'd much rather see a new faction, like The Mechanicum or Daemons or Talons than a 'uge Boi.

This game just isn't made for Knights and Titans...atm.

Edited June 28 by Interrogator Stobz

[Crablezworth]

16 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Yep, I'd much rather see a new faction, like The Mechanicum or Daemons or Talons than a 'uge Boi.

This game just isn't made for Knights and Titans...atm.

 

It's not even really made for tanks or planes either, all to expensive points wise when infantry and walkers seem to take the cake. 

 

I'm totally at a loss for making planes like 90-150pts but then making a detachment of 8 dedicated AA tarantulas 61pts, and on the aux side letting it infiltrate with no limits. 

 

20 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Yep, so much potential, so much imbalance.

In order to grow the game, we need a 2.0 on the rules ASAP.

 

I wouldn't say 2.0 but it does need a very heavy faq and if not a player made faq and mission packets that contain further restrictions on formations and change scoring. 

[malika666]

On 6/29/2024 at 2:57 PM, Crablezworth said:

 

It's not even really made for tanks or planes either, all to expensive points wise when infantry and walkers seem to take the cake. 

So wait… if the game isn’t made for Knight, Titans, and other big stuff…but also not for tanks and planes, what is it made for? 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Infantry. 

So really, to fix the game Infantry need fixing.

[malika666]

12 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Infantry. 

So really, to fix the game Infantry need fixing.

In other words, it’s basically a 32mm scaled game but then with smaller miniatures?

[DuskRaider]

39 minutes ago, malika666 said:

In other words, it’s basically a 32mm scaled game but then with smaller miniatures?

If you mean it’s infantry focused, yes. If you mean infantry perform similar, no. They’re much more powerful in LI than they are in 28mm 30K. Like… game breakingly powerful.