Varnish help

[Ahzek451]

I'm looking for some guidance on the use of vallejo varnish.

 

Background: I've almost exclusively used the GW Munitorum varnish to protect my models. I've got the process mostly down, I eliminate the humidity and do x3 thin sprays in ideal conditions, shake the can for the right amount of time, spray at the right distance, etc. Most of the time I have been content with the results however, I always tend to get a slight and subtle "fog" effect. Mind, I've seen what bad fog looks like if you don't spray under good conditions. 

 

I've decided to branch out to using vallejo varnishes and I've seen different things across the internet. I ultimately settled on the premium types in the attached picture. Matte, satin, and gloss.

 

My goal is to paint on (brush, not spray), this varnish to the point that it retains every trace of the origional paint job without making it foggy or otherwise. 

 

The best I've been able to understand is I need to put down a layer of the gloss first, and end with a layer of matte. 2 thin coats. 

 

Is this right? Has anyone had issus with "yellowing" over time or in the sun with the vallejo  premium colors? How long do you let it dry before adding the 2nd matte layer? 

 

Do you put the gloss on, put any water decals, then matte over in that order?

 

I've read 2 different things that one yellows worse than the other, acrylic or polyurethane,  which is it?

 

Why do all 3 bottles say acrylic but the matt says acrylic polyurethane?

 

I appreciate any help with this. 

Edited July 7 by Ahzek451

[Sky Potato]

11 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

The best I've been able to understand is I need to put down a layer of the gloss first, and end with a layer of matte. 2 thin coats.

One coat of matte over the gloss has been my experience - both through the airbrush and by brush.
 

11 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Is this right? Has anyone had issus with "yellowing" over time or in the sun with the vallejo  premium colors? How long do you let it dry before adding the 2nd matte layer?

I’ve been using the Vallejo Poly for 2 years, no yellowing to date.
 

11 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Do you put the gloss on, put any water decals, then matte over in that order?

For decals, I gloss, decal, gloss, then matte.
 

11 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Why do all 3 bottles say acrylic but the matt says acrylic polyurethane?

They’ve changed the labels recently. The old labels all state Acrylic Polyurethane. The SKU code (62.06x) have stayed the same.

[Ahzek451]

Thank you, that was most helpful. 

 

If I may ask a few more questions:

 

If the pattern is to lay down a layer of gloss, gloss, and matte, how long do you let each layer dry before puting on the next?

 

Is it preferable to airbrush these on or by regular brush?

 

Do you thin down the premium at all with water?

 

Do you find the vellejo premium method better than the GW munitorum varnish?

[Sky Potato]

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

Thank you, that was most helpful. 

 

If I may ask a few more questions:

 

If the pattern is to lay down a layer of gloss, gloss, and matte, how long do you let each layer dry before puting on the next?

I go a coat of gloss overnight before applying decals, and once I’m happy with the decals using microsol, I’ll apply another gloss coat, leave it overnight again and then apply matte.

 

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Is it preferable to airbrush these on or by regular brush?

Better by airbrush. You can get much thinner coats. Brush application is generally fine, but I find that applying by brush can introduce air bubbles which need to be removed as the varnish dries. That’s specifically with the matte varnish.

 

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Do you thin down the premium at all with water?

Not for brush use. I find that if I’m using my 0.5mm airbrush I don’t really need to use any thinner, but if I’m using my 0.35, I’ll use a couple of drops of airbrush thinner.

 

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

Do you find the vellejo premium method better than the GW munitorum varnish?

No experience with the GW spray cans, but I had a nightmare with spray varnish cans about a year ago when I got a bad case of frosting over the Tyranid half of the Leviathan box set. The only issues I’ve had with the Vallejo premium varnishes have been with my lazy brush application and not removing the air bubbles. With the airbrush, absolutely no issues.

[Firedrake Cordova]

 

I can't say I've heard the thing about putting matte varnish over gloss to reduce fogging (I have heard it to do with durability, although that's something that "was true but isn't any more"). I've only used matte/satin/gloss polyurethane straight onto the model and can't say I've noticed any issues (it's worth saying that matte and satin varnishes work by creating a microscopically rough surface which helps diffuse specular highlights, whereas the gloss one creates a flat surface).

 

I did varnish the cap piece for a gear stick (shifter) ... that was some time pre-COVID (2018, I think), and I've not noticed any yellowing. Whilst England (rightfully) has a reputation for dull and iffy weather, the UV does get up to 8 on the index over the summer, and the car's a convertible...

 

16 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Why do all 3 bottles say acrylic but the matt says acrylic polyurethane?

The product images on Vallejo's web site all say "acrylic polyurethane", so they've probably re-done the labels and some are old stock?

 

16 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

How long do you let it dry before adding the 2nd matte layer?  Do you thin down the premium at all with water?

Does the bottle have any instructions on it? The polyurethane varnish that I've got says it's touch-dry in 1 hour and can be over-coated after 24 hours, and to use a 0.4mm needle and not to dilute it (although I can't say I've had any issues doing that)

 

16 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Do you put the gloss on, put any water decals, then matte over in that order?

Yes, that's right - applying the decals onto a gloss-coated surface makes the process easier; then seal it with whatever finish you want for the final finish.

[Sky Potato]

Here’s the link to my thread last year about spray cans frosting and how to fix it - 

 

TL:DR - none of the fixes really worked, I repainted 

 

 

 

[phandaal]

I have not used Vallejo paint-on varnish, but I do use Liquitex. After ruining one too many models with finnicky spray-on varnish, I gave up on that completely. Just not worth it in my opinion.

 

Liquitex stuff goes on great, and I have tried it both over a gloss coat and not, and in both cases it works just fine. Assuming Vallejo works just as well, you should be able to do either and be fine.

 

Edit - after thinking about it some more, one thing I have maybe noticed is that with a gloss coat before the matte coat, the colors look a little richer when finished. Still not convinced it is not just my imagination, but it could have something to do with the thin clear layer in between the paint and the matte varnish.

Edited July 7 by phandaal

[Bryan Blaire]

I find that an extra layer of gloss varnish over an applied decal helps hide any potential “silvering” (flash of light/discoloration along the edge of the decal) you might get at the edges of decals.  When I’m weathering up decals, I will actually go:

1. Gloss Varnish
2. Decal (w/MicroSet and Sol)
3. Gloss Varnish
4. Satin (to match a satin paint finish like GW colors) or Matte (if I’m using a matte paint like ProAcryl or AK 3rd Gen) Varnish to match the base paint finish type if it isn’t a metallic base
5. Decal weathering paint to blend it into the model (like sponge chipping, any small slashes, etc.)
6. Shading for the model
7. Matte Varnish (for non-metallic base colors) or either Vallejo Metal Varnish or Gloss Varnish if the base color was metallic that I was applying the decal to

I like to let my varnish layers sit overnight at least, usually 12-24 hours, and haven’t noticed any yellowing or weird interactions between layers, but for best results, always follow the instructions for drying on the bottles.  

Edited July 8 by Bryan Blaire

[Xenith]

Never used those, but I use Windsor and Newton matte and satin spray varnishes, and have a liquitex matte varnish tha I used when I couldn't get w&n, and have never had fogging or yellowing. 

For decal-ing, I do exactly the same as bb above.