Squad sizes and blast

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Is there any reason at all to run max sized units? Especially 20+ blobs?

 

the only thing I can think of is if you just want more bodies but you’ve got 3/6 of whatever squad it is.

 

Just seems like with how blast works there isn’t much reason to take full sized units.

Are there any strats or unit abilities that you can think of that offsets a minimum of 5 attacks from blast weapons.

[SvenIronhand]

Character buffs.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

Character buffs.

Idk, of a buff that offsets how much easier it is to kill a 20 man blob over 2 10 man blobs.

[sairence]

I guess you need some buffs that make them annoying to remove without big commmitment. Not every army has them, so for them I don't see much benefit.

 

But like a big Crusader-blob in BT with character support is pretty terrifying, as an example.

 

At the end of the day the difference between 10 and 20 models is two extra shots. It's nice, but not world-ending imo.

 

Edited July 15 by sairence

[CL_Mission]

Because it'll look cool.

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

Character buffs.

 

And stratagems. 

[Rogue]

If I can drop in a buffed-up unit of twenty that kills your blast unit, then it's problem solved :)

 

I don't think you can just look at resilience. For me, part of the point of large units is that they can be significantly more effective compared to two half-sized units.

 

Using GSC as an example, I could have 20 neophytes with an enhanced Primus and 1CP stratagem, getting sustained and lethal hits on 5+ and full rerolls to hit. Or, I can have that on 10 neophytes, and the other ten can just stand there and watch.

 

Of course, there are times when option one will be overkill, and two lots of ten give me more tactical flexibility. But you asked for reasons to run units of 20+, and from a GSC perspective, souped-up neophytes are a strong choice.

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 hours ago, sairence said:

I guess you need some buffs that make them annoying to remove without big commmitment. Not every army has them, so for them I don't see much benefit.

 

But like a big Crusader-blob in BT with character support is pretty terrifying, as an example.

 

At the end of the day the difference between 10 and 20 models is two extra shots. It's nice, but not world-ending imo.

 

I guess it depends on how many blast weapons a unit is throwing at it.

3 frag missiles for example is 6 extra shots.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 minutes ago, Rogue said:

If I can drop in a buffed-up unit of twenty that kills your blast unit, then it's problem solved :)

 

I don't think you can just look at resilience. For me, part of the point of large units is that they can be significantly more effective compared to two half-sized units.

 

Using GSC as an example, I could have 20 neophytes with an enhanced Primus and 1CP stratagem, getting sustained and lethal hits on 5+ and full rerolls to hit. Or, I can have that on 10 neophytes, and the other ten can just stand there and watch.

 

Of course, there are times when option one will be overkill, and two lots of ten give me more tactical flexibility. But you asked for reasons to run units of 20+, and from a GSC perspective, souped-up neophytes are a strong choice.

 

 

Sure if I only have one unit with such weapons.

unfortunately most armies will have a plethora of units with blast weapons.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Static choices in my guard army lists that never change *with blast

 

HWS x3 mortars

 

infantry squad x2 GL/ML

 

exterminator w/ PCs

battle tank

demolisher

 

Against an army of 20 man blobs that’s 18 extra attacks

 

thats a pretty big thing.
*edit

Edited July 15 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Rogue]

True, but are there armies consisting entirely (or mostly) of units like that?

 

You take a unit for a specific purpose. In my lists, the 20-neophyte blob is there to drop in, clear something, then hop out and do it again (which is trickier right now, but still). The nature of the unit's purpose limits their spamability, because I really want that specific stratagem to make them as dangerous as possible. Otherwise, as you suggest, I'm just putting down big targets to be shot at.

 

But if I want a unit to sit on my base objective, or to ride around in trucks, then I'm going with 10s every time - I don't need them to do the same things, so I gear them differently.

[Emperor Ming]

I've never seen anyone use a missile launcher in

 

A long time

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

I've never seen anyone use a missile launcher in

 

A long time

I’ve had a bunch of MLs laying around for a while.

theyve done pretty well for me so far. But even then they’re part of my gun line so I could easily replace them with mortars and still have the same number of blast weapons.

1 hour ago, Rogue said:

True, but are there armies consisting entirely (or mostly) of units like that?

 

You take a unit for a specific purpose. In my lists, the 20-neophyte blob is there to drop in, clear something, then hop out and do it again (which is trickier right now, but still). The nature of the unit's purpose limits their spamability, because I really want that specific stratagem to make them as dangerous as possible. Otherwise, as you suggest, I'm just putting down big targets to be shot at.

 

But if I want a unit to sit on my base objective, or to ride around in trucks, then I'm going with 10s every time - I don't need them to do the same things, so I gear them differently.

I guess yeah if you’re pulling the unit off the board every turn a 20 blob makes some sense.

Edited July 15 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[DemonGSides]

16 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Static choices in my guard army lists that never change *with blast

 

HWS x3 mortars

 

infantry squad x2 GL/ML

 

exterminator w/ PCs

battle tank

demolisher

 

Against an army of 20 man blobs that’s 18 extra attacks

 

thats a pretty big thing.
*edit

 

Please shoot all of these guns at my infantry blob. PLEASE.

 

My multiple other tanks and stuff will be thrilled. Mission accomplished, squishy human bodies. Let the big boys take care of the problem. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Please shoot all of these guns at my infantry blob. PLEASE.

 

My multiple other tanks and stuff will be thrilled. Mission accomplished, squishy human bodies. Let the big boys take care of the problem. 

Luckily probably only need to shoot one unit at your blob to kill all or most of your infantry blob.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Luckily probably only need to shoot one unit at your blob to kill all or most of your infantry blob.

 

Hasn't been my experience with 10th, and I've played quite all few games of it by this point. 

Edited July 16 by DemonGSides

[tychobi]

Big squads are fun. Guard has enough blast to counter them somewhat. All working as intended. Not sure what the point of the thread is? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Hasn't been my experience with 11th, and I've played quite all few games of it by this point. 

Damn how you been getting games of 11th in?

58 minutes ago, tychobi said:

Big squads are fun. Guard has enough blast to counter them somewhat. All working as intended. Not sure what the point of the thread is? 

I’ve just not seen many if any benefits to out weigh the negatives

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Damn how you been getting games of 11th in?

 

I come from the future.

[Minsc]

Pro: Characterbuffs and more mileage from Stratagems and such.

 

Con: More vulnerable to blasts and a bit worse at objective gaming. 

 

If its worth it or not depends entitely on yourself and your local meta I'd say.

 

For me I think the pros generally outweigh the cons, but it also depends on the list and if there is an attached character or not.