Necromunda - Hive Secundus - An Amalgamation of WarCom News

[Timberley]

WarCom are pumping out news articles ready for the release of Secundus this Saturday.  Today we have:

 

Who are the Spyre Hunters?

 

Quote

The disaffected scions of the noble houses have been stalking Necromunda for generations,* sowing terror in armoured suits of alien origin and ratcheting up their kill counts with arcane weapons available only to the very richest residents of the entire Imperium of Mankind. And now they’re back with a menacing redesign and a new mission: hunting the most dangerous game of all in the desolate Underhells of Hive Secundus. 

In the second of our series of interviews with the Necromunda design team, we’re talking Spyre Hunters.

 

It's a look at the design process for the updated Spyrers and what you get on the sprues (but sadly no sprue shots).  All told, an interesting article, but I'm rather sad they've chosen to just make them part of the Imperial House, rather than any of the Noble Houses.

 

 

 

The second article, Undoing Perfection, talks about the design process for the new Malstrains. 

 

Quote

Even for a planet as unilaterally bleak and unforgiving as Necromunda, the twisted and irradiated depths of Hive Secundus are especially unforgiving. This is the domain of the Malstrain, the corrupted brood of a once-captive Genestealer Patriarch subjected to proscribed experiments by a Heretek Magos Biologis. The Malstrain survived the worst that the Imperium could throw at them, but not unchanged – and now they rule what remains. Here’s what went into designing them…

 

Another good article for the design process, and some info that (as expected) the Brood Scum heads fit all gang bodies, but seemingly work really well with Orlocks!  For those concerned about GSC vs MIG (Malstrain Infected Gang) and GSC being binned, the article's gist is that GSC still exist, and despise the MIG.

 

 

The models do look really freaky, and I'm really looking forward to their release!  Despite their chat in the article, I still think I'm going to use either a Von Ryan Leaper or a Deathleaper head to change the Malstrain Alpha head and lean into the weird horror.  Alternatively, use the Von Ryan for the Alpha and convert the Deathleaper into my Malstrain Patriarch!

 

Also, the article touches on using a Malstrain gang outside Secundus.  The takeaway is; it's not designed for wider Necromunda, but can be done provided everyone agrees.  However (obviously), stuff like the Trading Post is off-limits.  The MIG is what they want people to use, and I think the MIG have access to the Malstrain 'Stealer as a Brute choice, if I'm reading between the lines correctly.

 

As an aside, they showed the original Space Crusade mission from WD145, and I recognised it straight away, as I have that issue and used that (with my friend) as a campaign mission for our game of Space Crusade years ago!  It's good to see a throwaway mission from the past be relevant to today!

 

I'll update this thread for Thursday and Friday, when I suspect we'll have more articles on Secundus.

 

Edit: Other Secundus Threads on B&C; Preorder thread, Book of Desolation thread

Edited July 17 by Timberley
Adding other thread links

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I'm happy beyond words with this new box and supplement.

And miniatures, of course!

[grailkeeper]

Two of the new minis are very faithful.

 

When Tau arrived it was HEAVILY implies they were the source of the spyrer suits. They even had a Tau dictionary at the back of the codex which had words similar to the spyrer name. 

[INKS]

wish those suits could be used in 40k somewhere. very cool

those genestealers, would be cool to sprinkle them into GSC or Nids

[Noserenda]

Some weird gaslighting about Spyrers in 1st there, starvation wasnt much of a worry unless your gang was already in a death spiral, i even had a gang go deliberately outlaw because it was more profitable than staying "straight", plus i think you would have to play for a long damn time for everyone to inevitably go outlaw, though that is some thing Andy Hoare and his pals did :D 

Nooo spyrers were hated because they were utterly brutal, you could buy XP with your starting credits instead of more Spyrers, so you take the minimum, 3, and then a bunch of levels with their specialised advancement tables so minimum bad stats and a load of amazing gear upgrades.

My Jakaras (with some variation) were rocking 3+ Invulnerables to the front which shot back at the firer for most weapons, followed by an absurd WS and 2+ parries plus combat skills in melee to the state where they could routinely slaughter multiple gangers at once, getting around with M9 and sprint or something if they wanted. Like, I do think Jakara were the main problem but they were all good!

Weird to try and pin it on starvation...

The Tau thing was always stupid, given that they looked nothing like Tau tech, used no Tau weapons and considerably predate the Tau empire both in and out of universe. Just a silly easter egg people took way too seriously (Including some of the later writers) though i do like them leaning into the alien designs with these, specifically the designers presumably being non humanoid or substantially differently sized if you need amputation to wear them!  :) 

[Cactus]

The strength of spyrers to me was in their unique* advancement tables. While regular Joes had to take their chances with a 50/50 chance of Ws or BS, or learning the Fast Shot skill and never increasing their Attacks stat to make use of it, each type of spyrer had their own table weighted towards synergy and actually useful stuff. So not only could you spend starting credits on XP but those advances would probably be more effective than those that other gangs accrued in their early games.

 

Always choosing the ambush scenario probably got quite tiresome to play against as well.

 

My spyrer gangs were less terrifying because I didn't even own a Jakara model for years and I have terrible terrible luck on the injury table. Frenzied Yeld and Orrus with a leg wound was probably my most dysfunctional gang.

 

So um yeah... new spyrer models are ok. I think the Studio got some heads muddled which makes them look off to me. The Orrus and Jakara seem to have spider-eyed Malcadon heads while Malc has a Jakara/Yeld eyepiece. It's almost enough to make me buy some so I can see them built correctly.

 

*auto-correct chose "underwear queue"!

[Noserenda]

Oooh yeah and i forgot that Spyrers tended to have weirdly low gang ratings which helped them with scenarios and got them yet more XP as perpetual "underdogs" :D 

[Castigator]

Spyrers were the reason our group stopped playing the original Necromunda. They quite simply annihilated every gang they came across so it's good to see that the new ones will be restricted to hunting Malstrains. 

[Timberley]

Today's (18/07/24) news article: Van Saar Tek-Hunters

 

Quote

In our final article on the setting of the new Hive Secundus box, we turn to the Van Saar Tek-hunters. An elite cadre of adventurers dispatched by the elders in an effort to find that shred of information that could save the House of Artifice. Here’s the Necromunda design team with more.

 

The first surprise is that this is the final Secundus article!  I was expecting something on Friday to keep the fever high.  A good article that sdhows off the new VS Tek-Hunters, and their role within both Secundus and wider Necromunda.  There's other surprises too!

 

 

The second surprise is that the Tek-Hunters sound like an intermediate step between being a Neotek and an Archeotek, equivalent to a Tek in the standard Subtek-Tek-Augmek progression for 'regular' VS.  Outside the Underhells, the VS Tek-Hunters can be used as specialists within the gang, with an entire gang consisting of Tek-Hunters and a Leader!  This could be cool for my gang that I've got going, and may necessitate a complete rework!  Interestingly, the new Tek-Hunters 'gang box' is designed like a Kill Team box, with a couple of options for each body.  They've also tried to keep it backwards compatible with other VS miniatures too, which sounds really fun for conversions.

 

With all of this in mind, I've gone from 'I'll preorder it' to 'I'll set an alarm to make sure I'm on the shop when preorders go live'!

[Timberley]

12 hours ago, Castigator said:

Spyrers were the reason our group stopped playing the original Necromunda. They quite simply annihilated every gang they came across so it's good to see that the new ones will be restricted to hunting Malstrains. 

I'm not sure where you got that idea from, as the Spyrer article states that:

 

Quote

Spyrer Hunting Parties can and do go still visit the regular Underhive - but it's in the crucible of Hive Secundus where they test their mettle in the eyes of the Imperial House.

 

I do agree with other Frater that GW have tried to gaslight us with their explanation as to why Spyrers were terrible to fight against.  My recollection from 1E Necromunda was them being ridiculously powerful compared to my gang.

Edited July 18 by Timberley

[INKS]

5 minutes ago, Timberley said:

Today's (18/07/24) news article: Van Saar Tek-Hunters

 

 

The first surprise is that this is the final Secundus article!  I was expecting something on Friday to keep the fever high.  A good article that sdhows off the new VS Tek-Hunters, and their role within both Secundus and wider Necromunda.  There's other surprises too!

 

 

The second surprise is that the Tek-Hunters sound like an intermediate step between being a Neotek and an Archeotek, equivalent to a Tek in the standard Subtek-Tek-Augmek progression for 'regular' VS.  Outside the Underhells, the VS Tek-Hunters can be used as specialists within the gang, with an entire gang consisting of Tek-Hunters and a Leader!  This could be cool for my gang that I've got going, and may necessitate a complete rework!  Interestingly, the new Tek-Hunters 'gang box' is designed like a Kill Team box, with a couple of options for each body.  They've also tried to keep it backwards compatible with other VS miniatures too, which sounds really fun for conversions.

 

With all of this in mind, I've gone from 'I'll preorder it' to 'I'll set an alarm to make sure I'm on the shop when preorders go live'!

I don't play necromunda at all but these guys are cool

[Castigator]

56 minutes ago, Timberley said:

I'm not sure where you got that idea from, as the Spyrer article states that:

 

 

I do agree with other Frater that GW have tried to gaslight us with their explanation as to why Spyrers were terrible to fight against.  My recollection from 1E Necromunda was them being ridiculously powerful compared to my gang.

I was going off of the article from the 16th, I hadn't read that article when I posted. It does appear that they'll be showing up in the Underhive as well....bugger 
Hopefully the more accessible special weapons that gangs now have access to compared to the basic weapons that the original gangs had will give us a more level playing field.

[Timberley]

2 hours ago, INKS said:

I don't play necromunda at all but these guys are cool

Yeah, they really are.  I think with another few Van Saar models you could make a decent Kasrkin Kill Team as well!

 

1 hour ago, Castigator said:

I was going off of the article from the 16th, I hadn't read that article when I posted. It does appear that they'll be showing up in the Underhive as well....bugger 
Hopefully the more accessible special weapons that gangs now have access to compared to the basic weapons that the original gangs had will give us a more level playing field.

Ahhh I see, I thought you were replying to the 17th's Spyrer article.  Yeah, watch out, Spyrers about!   Reading the article, it sounds like the Spyrers are still mildly OP, but they have to be played right to get the OPness.  Bring a webber if you're facing off against them seems to be the advised tactic...

[Noserenda]

I would be surprised if Spyrers are as dominant these days, simply because the rest of the hive is packing a lot more heat these days, but hey, they did list a bunch of otherwise terrible overcosted weapons they are vulnerable too soooo... *awkward chuckle* :P  

[Toxichobbit]

On 7/18/2024 at 1:34 AM, Noserenda said:

Some weird gaslighting about Spyrers in 1st there, starvation wasnt much of a worry unless your gang was already in a death spiral, i even had a gang go deliberately outlaw because it was more profitable than staying "straight", plus i think you would have to play for a long damn time for everyone to inevitably go outlaw, though that is some thing Andy Hoare and his pals did :D 

Nooo spyrers were hated because they were utterly brutal, you could buy XP with your starting credits instead of more Spyrers, so you take the minimum, 3, and then a bunch of levels with their specialised advancement tables so minimum bad stats and a load of amazing gear upgrades.

My Jakaras (with some variation) were rocking 3+ Invulnerables to the front which shot back at the firer for most weapons, followed by an absurd WS and 2+ parries plus combat skills in melee to the state where they could routinely slaughter multiple gangers at once, getting around with M9 and sprint or something if they wanted. Like, I do think Jakara were the main problem but they were all good!

Weird to try and pin it on starvation...

The Tau thing was always stupid, given that they looked nothing like Tau tech, used no Tau weapons and considerably predate the Tau empire both in and out of universe. Just a silly easter egg people took way too seriously (Including some of the later writers) though i do like them leaning into the alien designs with these, specifically the designers presumably being non humanoid or substantially differently sized if you need amputation to wear them!  :) 

 

Couldn't agree more. When I read that line about starvation I genuinely questioned whether the games designers had ever played N95. I have never seen a gang struggle with starvation in any of the many N95 campaigns I played in, and I played Ratskins 90% of the time, so I was always an Outlaw. Like you say, Spyrer's rules were just too good. We had someone who took three basic Spyrers and just bought XP, putting it all into one Jakara. She was impossible to deal with after that and unless you could pull out a win without fighting the Spyrers, it was a guaranteed loss. They also say "back then you had one specialist and one heavy" -  back then there was no such thing as specialists. You had up to 2 heavies who could carry heavy or special weapons, and leaders could also carry special weapons. It's a minor thing and you could write it off as semantics, but mistakes like this suggest a misunderstanding of N95. I haven't played or read N95 in decades but it appears I can still remember the game better than the current designers.

 

And I worry that if the designers never understood the original problem then, how can they have fixed it this edition? While they're correct that a modern gang can carry a lot more plasma/melta than N95 gangs, that still takes time to build up in a campaign and if modern Spyrer's can get the head start that their ancestors could, well, it's gonna be bad news and early losses for everyone else. Not to mention many scenarios in N18 use random crew selection, so you might not get all of your powerful specialist weapons for a scenario (or get none at all if you're unlucky), plus you won't have your full gang - your numbers are usually restricted.  But Spyrers will always get Spyrers, even if they have to randomise which Spyrer they get. And limited crew size in scenarios is less of an issue when even the smallest crew sizes are still 4+ fighters, which is about the size of an entire Spyrer gang. Imagine going into a fight with 4-5 Orlocks, maybe one of which has a decent weapon and facing off against 4 fully loaded out Spyrers who all have double activations. 

 

The comment about webguns and flamers being very good against them is also worrying. Webguns are just very good, but also very limited. I think it's just Delaque & Genestealer Cults (Enforcers might have a web weapon too) that can take them from their gang weapons list. Every other gang has to rely on finding one that they can afford at the Trading Post, which is far from guaranteed. Flamers are much more common in gang weapon lists, but are also widely regarded as being overpriced. Being incentivised to take an overpriced weapon because Spyrers have a weakness to it doesn't seem like it would be a good gaming experience. You could also freely swap weapon loadouts back in N95, so could somewhat tailor your gang to your opponent if needed, something that is much harder to do now.

 

It'd be stupid to say that Spyrers are going to break the game or be OP, because we have no idea. There are definitely ways to avoid the issues above, for example have Spyers count as 2 (or even 3) fighters for random crew selection. But I do have concerns and given the designers comments on starvation etc, I'm not convinced that my concerns will be addressed in the final rules. Fingers crossed I'm worried over nothing.

[Timberley]

So, as suspected, WarCom did one final article on Secundus - a painting showcase!  

 

Quote

A terrifying new dawn rises on Necromunda as tech-hungry gangs and augmented high-society hunters descend into Hive Secundus, where the hideous Malstrain Genestealers await in the darkness. The new Necromunda: Hive Secundus box is up for pre-order this Saturday, and while we’ve been waiting for the ruined hive to open for business, members of the Warhammer Studio have been painting their own takes on the beautiful miniatures contained within.

 

 

There's some really nice colour schemes on display (as you'd expect from the Studio Painters! ) and they do give good food for thought about our own schemes.  Interestingly, several pictures of the Malstrain 'stealers have at least one of them with a Cthulhu/Lictor-esque head that we've not seen in any of the previous preview articles, which I reckon could be in the box!

 

 

I mean, I was already sold, but this is just cranking the hype a bit more.  Here's hoping at 1000GMT (1100BST) (if I remember my preorder live times correctly) the website isn't a mess and they're sold out to scalpers within the first 20seconds... 

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 7/17/2024 at 8:34 PM, Noserenda said:

Some weird gaslighting about 1st there

 

Basically the MO of the branch of specialist games that deals with nrcromunda, LI, and 30k lol. Just misrepresent parts of the game to justify changes that are then poorly implemented. Like when Andy Hoare tried to pretend cults and militia had fearless spam past 2018. 

Edited July 20 by SkimaskMohawk

[skylerboodie]

On 7/18/2024 at 6:52 PM, Timberley said:

The first surprise is that this is the final Secundus article!  I was expecting something on Friday to keep the fever high. 

I think it was a case of another WarCom ballsup as they posted two of their more in depth articles in quick succession on one day, which felt like an accidental double post of content meant for two days. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 7/17/2024 at 10:46 PM, Timberley said:

WarCom are pumping out news articles ready for the release of Secundus this Saturday.  Today we have:

 

Who are the Spyre Hunters?

 

 

It's a look at the design process for the updated Spyrers and what you get on the sprues (but sadly no sprue shots).  All told, an interesting article, but I'm rather sad they've chosen to just make them part of the Imperial House, rather than any of the Noble Houses.

 

 

 

The second article, Undoing Perfection, talks about the design process for the new Malstrains. 

 

 

Another good article for the design process, and some info that (as expected) the Brood Scum heads fit all gang bodies, but seemingly work really well with Orlocks!  For those concerned about GSC vs MIG (Malstrain Infected Gang) and GSC being binned, the article's gist is that GSC still exist, and despise the MIG.

 

 

The models do look really freaky, and I'm really looking forward to their release!  Despite their chat in the article, I still think I'm going to use either a Von Ryan Leaper or a Deathleaper head to change the Malstrain Alpha head and lean into the weird horror.  Alternatively, use the Von Ryan for the Alpha and convert the Deathleaper into my Malstrain Patriarch!

 

Also, the article touches on using a Malstrain gang outside Secundus.  The takeaway is; it's not designed for wider Necromunda, but can be done provided everyone agrees.  However (obviously), stuff like the Trading Post is off-limits.  The MIG is what they want people to use, and I think the MIG have access to the Malstrain 'Stealer as a Brute choice, if I'm reading between the lines correctly.

 

As an aside, they showed the original Space Crusade mission from WD145, and I recognised it straight away, as I have that issue and used that (with my friend) as a campaign mission for our game of Space Crusade years ago!  It's good to see a throwaway mission from the past be relevant to today!

 

I'll update this thread for Thursday and Friday, when I suspect we'll have more articles on Secundus.

 

Edit: Other Secundus Threads on B&C; Preorder thread, Book of Desolation thread

Reprinting Space Crusade with new models such as dedicated Imperial Fists, Ultramarines and Blood Angels would be akin to printing money. 

[Noserenda]

Oh yeah id be on Space crusade like a powerful moss, annoyingly its apparently tied up in unclear or contested rights and its never going to happen :( 

[Toxichobbit]

10 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Oh yeah id be on Space crusade like a powerful moss, annoyingly its apparently tied up in unclear or contested rights and its never going to happen :( 

 

I would have thought it's doable if GW wanted to. They'd need to change the name and rules (but they'd have changed the rules anyway) and certain things would either need replacements or exclusion, such as Chaos Androids, the not-ED209. & the awesome old Tarantula design But other than that, they own Marines, Orks, Gretchin, Chaos Marines, Genstealers & Aeldari. So the base game would be feasible as would Eldar Attack. Mission: Dreadnought would be the tricky one as it's entire identity was the old Chaos Dreadnought & those Tarantulas.

[ZeroWolf]

I figured the Space Crusade rights would be as tied up the same way Heroquest once was meaning that it would probably be Hasbro that would return it if they wished...minus all the 40k trappings (heroquest was far luckier in this regard needing only a handful of lore references changed and one creature type changed)

[Timberley]

13 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

I would have thought it's doable if GW wanted to. They'd need to change the name and rules (but they'd have changed the rules anyway) and certain things would either need replacements or exclusion, such as Chaos Androids, the not-ED209. & the awesome old Tarantula design But other than that, they own Marines, Orks, Gretchin, Chaos Marines, Genstealers & Aeldari. So the base game would be feasible as would Eldar Attack. Mission: Dreadnought would be the tricky one as it's entire identity was the old Chaos Dreadnought & those Tarantulas.

Yeah, Space Crusade's return would be amazing.  A substitution for the Chaos Androids would be some sort of corrupted servitor or Skitarii, the ED-209s would be the Vorax Battle-Automata (for the visual, otherwise we have Dreadnoughts/Hellbrutes), with a bit of chaos-ification. and the real Tarantula could be imported back in (or replaced by the Rapier from HH).

Edited Sunday at 10:07 PM by Timberley
Speellung...