Indecision

[TheTrans]

I've certainly had a ball with 3rd edition mate! It also allowed me to drag some of my mates into doing 40k armies again as they wouldn't touch the current stuff with a 40 foot pole haha. 

Always put the feelers out and see if people are keen for it, you'll probably find a heap of the middle-aged dudes will be suckered in by the nostalgia of it all.. then find they enjoy decisions actually mattering and your armies not being taken off in a single turn of shooting! 

[Arikel]

Just to throw a couple cents in, you seem to be excited about kroot, plus a minority of tau units, but not the majority of the tau themselves.  Would the Tau units you like be able to squeeze into your kroot list? While maybe not an idealized list they can be used together as part of the same army as far as I am aware.

[lhg033]

Rather than 40k would you be better with something like Kill Team ? You can can do multiple small forces for whatever floats your boat at the time,  small numbers of models and a very clear road map from GW. Then if you do like a particular force you have started with you can grow an army from them?

 

That said - if you do want Kroot, I've just seen that the hunting party is still available/in the summer sale on Darksphere at over 30% off.

[Xenith]

On 9/9/2024 at 10:16 AM, INKS said:

I understand but I play to be competitive generally speaking.

 

Well at the moment, you don't play at all!

 

I didn't comment whan you posted this, but my sentiments echo Trans's, this indecision is crippling your hobby and no doubt causing you stress. We've tried to help but I think you just have to pull the trigger and get some models. The idea of kill team might work, that can be very competitive, and the army will not change, like 40k will. 

[INKS]

Well I know the indecision is crippling my hobby, it isn't the first time. isn't new for me. I do appreciate the help and suggestions. I do own a kill team right now. I had an army in 9th and I sold it. Wasn't happy with it. 

 

There are a lot of problems with Kill Team right now. I guess I just have to wait until a model or a set of models grabs me to the point of making me want to paint them and do an army. Just hasn't happened for me. I wish people played spear head around me, I actually enjoy that game more. 

 

I updated this thread and continue to do so, more to document my own journey, struggles and so on. What minor progress is or isn't made and why, etc.

I know some people seem to find it annoying because it seems like you all give advice and I find an excuse or simply ignore it. I am not ignoring it for the record. It just doesn't always work for me personally. I can't just got an buy some random model. That is how you end up with a bunch of random models you never paint or never get to. Things need to be planned, I like to have a list, for the army for paint, how am I going to get colors X Y Z onto the model and so on. It's just how my brain works. Annoying I know. I make a spread sheet for every army I am interested in. It has a list or several lists I like, noted with tactics and how the army works. It also has a sheet for paints. How do I paint this army or how would I do it. This is for the armor, this is for face, the guns, the base and so on. Probably the scientist in me, but everything is documented. I am not 20 any longer, I don't buy things on a whim, Its rare for fomo to grab me. It's not that it doesn't effect me. Hey I want to go out and buy this and that, I just can't bring myself to do that because experience has taught me it's often a waste. I enjoy the research of the item I am going to buy as much as owning the item itself. I realize this isn't how most people are or how a lot of people are. Just me.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

 

[Arikel]

I hear you on that man. Since GW pretty much nuked the plans I had for my army I have mostly been sputtering around myself, but I have been collecting kits I find interesting and wish to paint some day;). As a hoarder I likely wouldn’t ever sell my stuff, but I might give some away some day.

I wish you the best of luck finding something that sparks you to start again.

 

[phandaal]

9 minutes ago, Arikel said:

I hear you on that man. Since GW pretty much nuked the plans I had for my army I have mostly been sputtering around myself, but I have been collecting kits I find interesting and wish to paint some day;). As a hoarder I likely wouldn’t ever sell my stuff, but I might give some away some day.

I wish you the best of luck finding something that sparks you to start again.

 

 

I was in the same position at the start of 10th edition. All of a sudden, the Votann I had been collecting were supposed to be fielded under an unfinished, beta draft set of Index rules that seemed more like a punishment for an OP codex that never made it live. It looked like a miserable way to spend my free time.

 

Totally crushed my motivation to do anything at all, because the games are what motivate me to keep building and painting. I had all these projects that just made me feel bad to think about.

 

What saved me was finding a different ruleset to use besides current 10th edition. It was like a light switched on and my perspective shifted to being excited again, and I couldn't wait to keep building my army. Been going strong again ever since.

 

@INKS I second the suggestions to give different editions a try. You might be surprised at just how many people are interested in doing the same. Another massive benefit is that breaking away from GW's "current" rules means you have time to plan and build things, and you can reasonably expect them to stay fun for as long as you want to use them.

[INKS]

11 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

I was in the same position at the start of 10th edition. All of a sudden, the Votann I had been collecting were supposed to be fielded under an unfinished, beta draft set of Index rules that seemed more like a punishment for an OP codex that never made it live. It looked like a miserable way to spend my free time.

 

Totally crushed my motivation to do anything at all, because the games are what motivate me to keep building and painting. I had all these projects that just made me feel bad to think about.

 

What saved me was finding a different ruleset to use besides current 10th edition. It was like a light switched on and my perspective shifted to being excited again, and I couldn't wait to keep building my army. Been going strong again ever since.

 

@INKS I second the suggestions to give different editions a try. You might be surprised at just how many people are interested in doing the same. Another massive benefit is that breaking away from GW's "current" rules means you have time to plan and build things, and you can reasonably expect them to stay fun for as long as you want to use them.

Yes I am going to look into this as well. maybe this will help

[INKS]

I have also been toying with the idea of recreating space hulk.

the terrain would be done last. I know there are rules out there.

I could maybe get a box of genestealers? I don't know how many you need for the game, 2 boxes?

 

I know blood angels were the main focus but there was a DA version as well?

I am sure I could google the different guys and semi recreate them with the new terminators. probably need a box of regular terminators and then a box of assault.

[TheArtilleryman]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:22 PM, INKS said:

Certainly a good idea.

I don't know why I am like this but let say I buy a box of custodes and then decided. I don't want this. I would have to sell them. I just don't keep loose models around if that makes sense. I don't know why, but I don't

OK - I know this is an old comment now but it gave me an idea. The original suggestion was to get just one thing and see how you go - but what if you don’t want that army?

OK, so here’s my idea. If you start with one large KNIGHT, there are several advantages.
 

1. You have a single model to focus your energy on, with planning all of its own - colour schemes, weapon choices, even magnetising etc… and it will keep you busy for a while.

2. It’s enough points to play a small game of between 450 and 600 ish points on its own, unlike a single squad.

3. If you don’t decide to continue with knights, it still makes an amazing display piece, where a single squad of guys isn’t so great.

4. You could use it as a centrepiece for any number of other armies, so if you went for Sisters, or Custodes, or even Death Guard later on, you can build around the knight and it will leave you with many options still open.

5. It is pretty much guaranteed not to disappear or be put into legends, like ever.

6. Fully painted well, it’s probably worth a few quid still, especially magnetised. Plus eBay (in UK at least) don’t charge fees now so it’s never been more lucrative to sell if you change your mind.
 

 

I’m thinking this would be a way to just get started on something, and enable you to park any further decisions that are currently holding you back.

Edited October 15 by TheArtilleryman

[Xenith]

18 hours ago, INKS said:

Things need to be planned, I like to have a list, for the army for paint, how am I going to get colors X Y Z onto the model and so on. It's just how my brain works.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, however it's 99% incompatible with the desire to have a top tier competitive army, as that perfection is an ever shifting target. As soon as you make your list, you'll have a 3-6 month window to buy, make and paint everything otherwise the top tier army will change, and you're back to less than zero, as you'll sell the army you're unahppy with again. 

 

Which of the two things has the greater priority for you, building a force to a list, or having a very competitive army.

 

If it helps with the list building and catalogueing, have you used Pile of Potential? I track army building progress there, but you can also add models you wish to buy, then check them off as you buy, make, prime, paint and base them, and it gives you stats on % completed, models completed etc. 

https://pileofpotential.com/xenith

 

*in my view, players are competitive, and you can play competitively with just about any army. 

Edited October 15 by Xenith

[INKS]

56 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, however it's 99% incompatible with the desire to have a top tier competitive army, as that perfection is an ever shifting target. As soon as you make your list, you'll have a 3-6 month window to buy, make and paint everything otherwise the top tier army will change, and you're back to less than zero, as you'll sell the army you're unahppy with again. 

 

Which of the two things has the greater priority for you, building a force to a list, or having a very competitive army.

 

If it helps with the list building and catalogueing, have you used Pile of Potential? I track army building progress there, but you can also add models you wish to buy, then check them off as you buy, make, prime, paint and base them, and it gives you stats on % completed, models completed etc. 

https://pileofpotential.com/xenith

 

*in my view, players are competitive, and you can play competitively with just about any army. 

no, I have not seen this before, thanks I will look at this today.

3 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

OK - I know this is an old comment now but it gave me an idea. The original suggestion was to get just one thing and see how you go - but what if you don’t want that army?

OK, so here’s my idea. If you start with one large KNIGHT, there are several advantages.
 

1. You have a single model to focus your energy on, with planning all of its own - colour schemes, weapon choices, even magnetising etc… and it will keep you busy for a while.

2. It’s enough points to play a small game of between 450 and 600 ish points on its own, unlike a single squad.

3. If you don’t decide to continue with knights, it still makes an amazing display piece, where a single squad of guys isn’t so great.

4. You could use it as a centrepiece for any number of other armies, so if you went for Sisters, or Custodes, or even Death Guard later on, you can build around the knight and it will leave you with many options still open.

5. It is pretty much guaranteed not to disappear or be put into legends, like ever.

6. Fully painted well, it’s probably worth a few quid still, especially magnetised. Plus eBay (in UK at least) don’t charge fees now so it’s never been more lucrative to sell if you change your mind.
 

 

I’m thinking this would be a way to just get started on something, and enable you to park any further decisions that are currently holding you back.

Not a bad idea, I do have a recipe for canis rex so that is a possibility. 

[ZeroWolf]

I can second pile of potential, it's a great feeling when you get a section all green. Wish it was a bit easier to navigate (unless it's just my mobile phone it doesn't like), still a solid tool.

[Gillyfish]

19 hours ago, INKS said:

I know blood angels were the main focus but there was a DA version as well?

I am sure I could google the different guys and semi recreate them with the new terminators. probably need a box of regular terminators and then a box of assault.

 

Just picking up on this specific point; yes, in the first edition of Space Hulk there were two expansions - Deathwing and Genestealer. The first of these covered the first company of the Dark Angels and included a Bill King short story about a squad of terminators freeing the Plains World, which these terminators had been recruited from, from a Genestealer infestation. The marines thought they would all die and so painted their armour white with ash to denote the fact that they were already dead. The story ends with the librarian, Two-Heads Talking, facing off against the Genestealer Patriarch. The story went that, since that point, the Dark Angels first company wore white in honour of this squad.

 

DA background has moved on a bit since then (less Native American influence, more Fallen),  but it is still a good story. The expansion introduced assault cannon and, I think, genestealer cultists with ranged weapons.

 

So, yes, if you wanted to go with Space Hulk theme, a Deathwing force would certainly be characterful.

[Rusted Boltgun]

To expand on the above, Genestealer added hybrids and psychic powers to V.1 Space Hulk along with Grey Knights. There were also WD rules for Traitor Terminators.

I like Space Hulk as it is a closed system - no more updates, nerfs or changes. The original game was pretty simple and has flaws but I love it. Part of that is nostalgia.

I do think there is a lot to like about a 'closed' ruleset, as others have said.

 

As for the number of Genestealers, as many as you can find! They really feel like an endless horde! From memory, I think the rules say you keep them as unconverted blips if you run out of models.

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

 

Just picking up on this specific point; yes, in the first edition of Space Hulk there were two expansions - Deathwing and Genestealer. The first of these covered the first company of the Dark Angels and included a Bill King short story about a squad of terminators freeing the Plains World, which these terminators had been recruited from, from a Genestealer infestation. The marines thought they would all die and so painted their armour white with ash to denote the fact that they were already dead. The story ends with the librarian, Two-Heads Talking, facing off against the Genestealer Patriarch. The story went that, since that point, the Dark Angels first company wore white in honour of this squad.

 

DA background has moved on a bit since then (less Native American influence, more Fallen),  but it is still a good story. The expansion introduced assault cannon and, I think, genestealer cultists with ranged weapons.

 

So, yes, if you wanted to go with Space Hulk theme, a Deathwing force would certainly be characterful.

 

Dark Angels were also the stars of this classic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_(1993_video_game) They used to play this on the demo screens of some of the PCs at our local computer store. Young me was not skilled enough at games to beat this one. 

 

"THE DARK ANGEL CHAPTER" ... "DEATHWING COMPANY"

[Moonstalker]

I'm looking to do something similar, but not exactly the same.  Boarding Actions has my interest for what I might actually want to play (vs just hobbying on a 2000 point army that will likely never hit the field).  I'm aiming to get a 3d printer to produce some 3rd party boarding action terrain, a second squad of terminators to build an all-terminator Boarding Action list, and start grabbing Tyranids or Orks (or both) as a second army to keep around for it.  It might carry some of that meta dread for being tied to the 10th edition rules, but you might look into it anyway.  If nothing else, browse around; there's lots of really good stls for boarding action terrain that might work for Space Hulk, too.

[INKS]

As for terrain I know what and where to find it, at least for now. I say to do this last because painting and building terrain is not that exciting to me. lol And I have to pay to have someone 3d print it, but thankfully because of 3d printing terrain can be done now to what I am looking for and to copy the old cardboard layouts.

 

I will have to look into what models I need and go from there. but it's a promising project.

[Valkyrion]

I've always wanted to do a fully fledged Space Crusade redux. I know it doesn't get the same level of nostalgia as Hero Quest and Space Hulk, but it was my gateway drug to the plastic crack addict I am today.

 

 

4 Zone Mortalis boards is exactly the right number of squares to make one Space Crusade board (and you need 4, so 16 ZM boards), but the trouble is the walls. Zone Mortalis walls take up a square, whilst Space Crusade walls are like Hero Quest and take up an invisible amount of space. Then there is the X wall or Cross Wall that incorporates the permanent openings. The Boarding Actions walls don't really fit, though they probably could but it's beyond my ken and patience to chop up scenery. 

 

Nevertheless, with a competent hobby hand and willing hobby mind it is definitely doable. The models are easy, the boards are easy, it's just the walls. 

 

But that room on the bottom left with all the rogue trader logos is begging to be redone with todays tech and hobbyist skills. 

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

33 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

I've always wanted to do a fully fledged Space Crusade redux. I know it doesn't get the same level of nostalgia as Hero Quest and Space Hulk, but it was my gateway drug to the plastic crack addict I am today.

 

 

4 Zone Mortalis boards is exactly the right number of squares to make one Space Crusade board (and you need 4, so 16 ZM boards), but the trouble is the walls. Zone Mortalis walls take up a square, whilst Space Crusade walls are like Hero Quest and take up an invisible amount of space. Then there is the X wall or Cross Wall that incorporates the permanent openings. The Boarding Actions walls don't really fit, though they probably could but it's beyond my ken and patience to chop up scenery. 

 

Nevertheless, with a competent hobby hand and willing hobby mind it is definitely doable. The models are easy, the boards are easy, it's just the walls. 

 

But that room on the bottom left with all the rogue trader logos is begging to be redone with todays tech and hobbyist skills. 

 

 

I fully endorse such a project. I loved space Crusade as a kid, such an awesome game.

[INKS]

The rules to play the game and 16 missions are all contained within two full colour booklets: the Rulebook and Mission Book. There are also 35 plastic Citadel miniatures, including: 11 Blood Angels Space Marine Terminators, 1 Blood Angels Space Marine Librarian in Terminator armour, 22 Genestealers, and 1 Broodlord. 

 

This is what I have found so far.

 

BA Terminators:

Storm bolter and chainfist

Storm bolter and power fist

captain with storm bolter and power sword

heavy flamer and fist

storm bolter and power fist

dual lightening claws

thunder hammer and storm shield

assault cannon and power fist

storm bolter and power fist

storm bolter and power fist

terminator librarian with storm bolter and power axe.

[Valkyrion]

Space Hulk is great, and I honestly don't know if the space hulks after the first (1989) have the smattering of Alien type atmosphere going on throughout the mission books that the first has, so I highly, highly recommend downloading or buying or finding the original 1989 mission book if the more recent editions don't have them. 

 

The bits that are like  -04-22.50 ++ Command module deployed

It goes throughout the entire mission book, like a timelapse of what the Blood Angels were experiencing and it's intense. Even on the page I've linked - the bottom right + All squads advancing. No enemy activity.+ Well, look up, dude cause 'stealer's gonna getcha.

 

Some of the terminology might've changed over the years, but the premise is there and it's superhuman warriors experiencing a near constant :cuss: moment with massive violence, jump scares and dubious success. It really is Alien (and Aliens) for the 41st Millennium.  

 

 

 

Awesome.

[TheTrans]

There we go.. Decided!

1st Ed Space Hulk. Its set, you'be got a to do list and it would look absolutely amazing with new models!

Get going mate! Enjoy! I look forward to the updates!

I'm sure a Mod can close this topic now ;). 

[Cactus]

2 hours ago, INKS said:

The rules to play the game and 16 missions are all contained within two full colour booklets: the Rulebook and Mission Book. There are also 35 plastic Citadel miniatures, including: 11 Blood Angels Space Marine Terminators, 1 Blood Angels Space Marine Librarian in Terminator armour, 22 Genestealers, and 1 Broodlord. 

 

This is what I have found so far.

 

BA Terminators:

Storm bolter and chainfist

Storm bolter and power fist

captain with storm bolter and power sword

heavy flamer and fist

storm bolter and power fist

dual lightening claws

thunder hammer and storm shield

assault cannon and power fist

storm bolter and power fist

storm bolter and power fist

terminator librarian with storm bolter and power axe.

That's the 3rd/4th edition release. A great ruleset that retains the classic 1st ed missions with just a couple of rules tweaks that balance the game a little better and give the marines more of a fighting chance.

 

1st ed was a bit more basic with 10 terminators, two with a heavy flamer and the rest with storm bolters. Deathwing added solo rules, multi-level maps, a new campaign, and rules for everything in the metal terminators boxed set (captain, librarian, assault cannon, sergeant with power sword, chainfists, lighting claws, thunder hammer and storm shield). These two combined are a great experience and the full suite of marine options is a good modelling and painting project.

 

Genestealer added Grey Knights, hybrids with heavy weapons and many psychic powers. I didn't like it.