Codex: Imperial Agents + Coteaz Reveal + Chamber Militant Battleforces

[soviet1337]

1 hour ago, ThePenitentOne said:

Also: while it's foolish to expect it, there is a chance that either Kill Team or a 40k Warhammer Quest game to fill the void left by Blackstone Fortress will supply additional models to this range. Both of those formats are excellent for Agents, and I could see an Arbites Judge or Naval Officer as a Quest character easily.

 

Like I said, not expecting it, but not writing off the possibility either.

 

I hope we get another preview or a release announcement soon. I really want to theoryhamer this book, and there's too much we don't know.

This would be great, but the sequencing really goes against it. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to put out this Quest game and THEN immediately put out an Imperial Agents codex that lets you play the dudes in 40k? What a hype train that would have been. Rather than the relatively damp squib codex release we actually got, which would then need a bunch of errata and downloads to incorporate the new stuff. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Certainly true.

 

It's also true that KT already had its Inquisition box. When BSF was released, the box contain 40k rules for every miniature in it. I would expect them to do the same with the next release, though in 10th, we've seen GW take active steps back from cross-platforming models.

[Captain Idaho]

13 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

That's literally no one's argument and you know it.

 

The ORIGINAL ARGUMENT (before you moved the goalposts) was that GW 40k quality had gone downhill. Thats a pretty bold claim that isn't backed up by the fact that the vast majority of kits have been well received over the past three years.

 

I personally think AoS has killed it even compared to 40k, but don't go tilting at windmills. It's a pretty bad look. 

 

Oh sorry you must have missed the other posts. I'll provide a sample of them so you can see the argument was made that it's just 1 model, to which I was responding to:

 

17 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Ork big mek, fab, all the heresy stuff literally, all of it, excellent. The nid stuff, lovely, new skaven, fantastic, glorfindel - outstanding, the ork refresh - wondrous... Etc etc.

 

The vast majority is really, really good. You've cited 3 examples which don't represent a majority. Yes, coteaz is poor, but he doesn't represent the majority of releases. Do you play custodes or agents of the imperium?

 

On 7/25/2024 at 6:31 PM, casb1965 said:

 

Totally agree.

 

GW dropped the ball with that model but it's not the be all and end all and certainly won't stop me buying the codex.

 

On 7/25/2024 at 4:43 PM, Arikel said:

 It does seem that people are fixated on the model for whatever reason.  It’s not the worst I’ve ever seen, but it’s for a named character anyway, which pretty much puts it off my radar completely as I am not interested in them as a general rule. 

 

The codex itself seems pretty cool, which is much more important anyways. Trying to not get too excited until I see a bit more of it but everything apart from the trivial model has been pretty impressive so far.

 

On 7/25/2024 at 3:58 PM, Robbienw said:

 

Relax, its a single poor model 

 

On 7/25/2024 at 2:58 PM, Kharn13 said:

One bad model isn’t the end of the world. I guess it was just made worse because of the redacted hype and lacklustre reveal. 

 

On 7/25/2024 at 12:02 PM, Karhedron said:

 

One bad model is not a big deal. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are other Inquisitor models that looks much better and the old Coteaz model is available 2nd hand.

 

I could go on with additional posts.

 

Anyway, these Frater are totally right, it's just 1 model.

 

But then as detailed here, many other frater are unhappy as it's THE 1 model for release and it's rubbish.

 

(Amongst other things missing or the entire Deathwatch rolled making some unhappy)

 

It's good we're all different, to have different criteria of what we're looking for in a release.

Edited July 28 by Captain Idaho

[chapter master 454]

Yea, kinda stings when all you are getting is one new model for your codex and it's really bad. The fact that other models have hit home and yet this one is complete dog water isn't nice, it is also for what could be argued one of the most famous inquisitors within the range with only really karamazov being more iconic just because of his massive walking throne. It may not be the end of the world but I would consider it one of a good few reasons people aren't exactly overly excited for this.

 

Likely he is taking a lot of flak also for the deathwatch direction as well, likely a lot of upset players there too who just want to let loose.

Not saying they are right to unload all barrels but at the same time, we can agree: if this was your faction and this was your ONE model you got, how would you feel?

[Arikel]

2 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

Likely he is taking a lot of flak also for the deathwatch direction as well, likely a lot of upset players there too who just want to let loose.

Not saying they are right to unload all barrels but at the same time, we can agree: if this was your faction and this was your ONE model you got, how would you feel?

I can understand this after a fashion. I’m don’t like to think I’m a take my ball and go home guy but what they did to my boys had me quit in 8th. I came back in 9th when the sm codex came out and FB had 2 wounds, and it seemed that they still had a fair bit of rules and model support. Still cheesed off about it though, especially since much of that support just got delisted with 10th.

 

I’m actually sort of trawling about for a new army as it were, have been snagging up different imperial forces here and there. I have some guard, sisters, and other odds and ends I have been putting together inquisition wise. The index actually pushed me to the inquisition stuff (all quite new after all) as they could ally in with my guard. If I can bring some sisters too, that will round out the force.

 

The new codex looks like it has real potential. It does suck they screwed up the mini being released along side it, but the brief description and rules shown are decent. It’s a bit discouraging to see all the harping on the model when GW might actually have a real winner of codex here. Kinda wish they had split this news in 2 threads, one for the codex, the other for the mini itself. The model hate is really taking up all the air in the room as it were.

[DemonGSides]

Like it's been said; it's fine to be upset about this release being bad, no one's arguing against that.  But to say this is indicative of overall quality going down is just not supported.

Bad models happen.  And to some, they like this one!

[casb1965]

The simple reason for only 1 new model is we're not getting any new units.

All the units in the new codex are preexisting and in many cases have model boxes released in the last 12 to 18 months (maybe GW knew then what they were doing in this codex **shock horror**)

 

[Captain Idaho]

I wanted an extended Arbites range which Imperial Agents would have been a great place to do so.

 

I'm sure others wanted extensions on other avenues of Imperial Agents, but mine is an example of my personal beef with the release.

 

****

 

Linked to above, but slightly different direction, what list of things do people consider were missing from this new book, in an extension capacity?

 

Or in other words, what things could have been expanded upon but weren't?

 

Ministorum and Arbites certainly could have been. The former being more militia and civilian based of course, with Priests and other religious fanatics.

Edited July 29 by Captain Idaho

[Harrowmaster]

It looks promising so far, now just for the inquisitorial stormtroopers.

[Blindhamster]

Thing with imperial agents is it covers so many things it’s a great melting pot to extend with kill teams 

[Karhedron]

4 minutes ago, Harrowmaster said:

It looks promising so far, now just for the inquisitorial stormtroopers.

 

Here's the thing though, if Scions had not been released already for IG, would anyone be unhappy with their models being the new Stormtroopers (Inquisitorial or otherwise)?

[Harrowmaster]

14 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Here's the thing though, if Scions had not been released already for IG, would anyone be unhappy with their models being the new Stormtroopers (Inquisitorial or otherwise)?

I'm happy with those models, I more meant from a rules perspective that we have some way to represent them

[DemonGSides]

They very well might be in the book, we just don't know.

[irlLordy]

Scions and Sisters of Silence are auxillary choices for the Inquisition kill team, so it wouldn't be completely out there to think they might be available to use in the codex also. 

[Schlitzaf]

4 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Here's the thing though, if Scions had not been released already for IG, would anyone be unhappy with their models being the new Stormtroopers (Inquisitorial or otherwise)?

Did I miss the Karaskins rereleased?

[Evil Eye]

45 minutes ago, Schlitzaf said:

Did I miss the Karaskins rereleased?

We got 'em redone in a kill team box. Not a bad job either, even if I feel they're missing a bit of the bulk of the metals (they don't look much more heavily armoured than stock Cadians IMO).

[DemonGSides]

Idk man, one of these is pretty obviously more heavily armored than the other.  Look at the legs, look at the arms, look at the groin, look at the wrists.

[Nova-V]

I wasn't around for the kasrkin first time around so talk of them being available for Agents confuses me a bit.  What I understand of them from the lore released recently they are Cadian spec ops which are fully integrated into the Guard command structure.  Now obviously an Inquisitor could requisition them but in the same way they could requisition any Guard unit. 

 

Scions on the other hand are trained in the same Schola system as Imperial Agents.  They have a desperate command structure to Guard and at least some regiments are dedicated to being troops for the Inquisition.

 

Is there an older peice of lore where Kasrkin work with the Inquisition the same way Scions do?

Edited July 29 by Nova-V

[Karhedron]

49 minutes ago, Nova-V said:

Is there an older peice of lore where Kasrkin work with the Inquisition the same way Scions do?

 

Not that I am aware. When introduced, Kasrkin were rather like Storm Troopers for IG. They had basically the same stat line and wargear options so many people regarded them as interchangeable, although they were different in the fluff. Also the Kasrkin models were rather newer and smarter than the IG Srormtroopers and so tended to get used in preference.

[ThePenitentOne]

10 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

what list of things do people consider were missing from this new book, in an extension capacity?

 

Or in other words, what things could have been expanded upon but weren't?

 

Ministorum and Arbites certainly could have been. The former being more militia and civilian based of course, with Priests and other religious fanatics.

 

First, let's look at low hanging fruit- things that can be done via rules additions alone, and bear in mind that the new dex might include these- we just don't know yet:

 

- SoS and Scions available as Requisitioned Units

- Land Raider as Xenos/ Malleus Transport

- Valkyrie as Navy Transport

- Chimera/ Rhino as Agent Transport

- Death Cult Assassins (Incorporating the Facedart from the RT DCA, Knosso Prond, either by having her be an independent character, or as a one per unit option)

- Crusaders (With possible distinction for Gotfrett de Montbard similar to Knosso above, though in this case not as necessary as there's visible difference)

- Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armour

- Profile for a stand alone Rogue Trader (Like a Heroic Command type, leaving the RT + Retinue Unit as a lower level RT who punches up with the Retinue)

- Jokaero

- Bound Daemon

- Enginseer + Servitors

- Greater flexibility with composition of Henchman units

 

Okay, so all of that was either previously available in 10th via Index or Legends; while some of the items in that list would be made better with new models, there is at least modelling precedent for all of them. It should be noted, however, that all of the cards and models exist, so if GW doesn't give us the rules to do it in this dex, you can still house-rule them in, and as a collection of models that are uniquely designed for narrative engagements, I'd encourage others to do the same.

 

I was tempted to throw the Repressor in this category as well, but I think it would need a plastic release to be viable, so it'll go into one of the remaining categories below.

 

Low-Hanging Fruit that Requires a Model:

 

- Arbites Marshall and/ or Judge (Possible dual kit)

- Fleet Admiral/ Officer of the Fleet 

- Multi-build generic Inquisitor (or better yet, a kit for each Ordo with multiple builds)

- Profile for both generic Inquistor Lord and Inquisitor; possibly addressed by the kit options above)

 

And the final category, Dream the Impossible Dream:

 

- Repressor with Model (dual build/ shared with Sisters- at least requisitioned ones)

- Navy Fighter in Plastic 

- Arvus Lighter in Plastic

- Arbites Bikes

 

It should be noted that there are 10th ed cards for the first three of  these available via Index/ Legends, so like the models in the first category, we can do it ourselves if we have to. 

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Nova-V said:

I wasn't around for the kasrkin first time around so talk of them being available for Agents confuses me a bit.  What I understand of them from the lore released recently they are Cadian spec ops which are fully integrated into the Guard command structure.  Now obviously an Inquisitor could requisition them but in the same way they could requisition any Guard unit. 

 

Scions on the other hand are trained in the same Schola system as Imperial Agents.  They have a desperate command structure to Guard and at least some regiments are dedicated to being troops for the Inquisition.

 

Is there an older peice of lore where Kasrkin work with the Inquisition the same way Scions do?

 

I think the Kasrkin talk is an off-topic aside (My b, my b!).  Scions will probably be in the book because they are currently allies that can work in Kill-team, I don't think that Kasrkin will because they are kinda IG specific stuff as you mentioned compared to TS, who have kinda shown up affiliated all over the place.

[Noserenda]

Kasrkin are just more elite Cadian troopers geared up like storm troopers, they are just as easily requisitioned by the inquisition in need and have been in a couple of stories. Inquisitional stormtroopers are a separate organisation that parallels the guard storm troopers/scions  gear but is used pretty differently. 

It really is weird that you can field Grey knights but not the Inquisitions bog standard mooks :D 

[chapter master 454]

One thing I think about with this, being that deathwatch are getting rolled in and the expansion of what can be considered part of this "allied" detachment, Imperial Knights may get a strange indirect help from this as a faction, now having access to various decent foot troops to help handle holding objectives and the like. Up to now 2 assassins, 2 Deathwatch units and 1 SoB or GK unit is pretty decent options to pull from. Main thing is just having something a bit more reasonable to park on objectives and that can handle chaff a bit better.

 

Though, maximum comedy of trying to create the most disfunctional army possible by maxing out allies. You could almost recreate the classic composition of a castellan, loyal 32 and smash captain and co. though you can't get maximum by being blood angels. Is it a good idea? No but it does carry the comedy of how utterly ad-hoc as get out some factions within the imperium gets right now. Lets see, Culexus Assassin, Grey Knight Terminators, Deathwatch, Imperial guard that include Catachans and Cadians and an Imperial Knight, quite the rainbow of factions all represented there! (and I chose the Culexus for MAXIMUM dissonance because WHY...WHY WHY WHY would you have a Culexus assassin anywhere NEAR ALL PSYKER forces...I get they are good for making daemons uncomfy but...Culexus assassins are NOT Psyker friendly...)

[Emperor Ming]

16 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Kasrkin are just more elite Cadian troopers geared up like storm troopers, they are just as easily requisitioned by the inquisition in need and have been in a couple of stories. Inquisitional stormtroopers are a separate organisation that parallels the guard storm troopers/scions  gear but is used pretty differently. 

Just FYI

 

there is only one stormtrooper organisation, the ordo tempestus, which is run by the departmento muintorum and the inquisition. 

 

Which provides tempestus scions to both the inquisition and the astra militiarum. 

 

So it would be rather odd if they are not in the book

 

 

Edited July 30 by Emperor Ming

[casb1965]

41 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Just fri

 

there is only one stormtrooper organisation, the ordo tempestus, which is run by the departmento muintorum and the inquisition. 

 

Which provides tempestus scions to both the inquisition and the astra militiarum. 

 

So it would be rather odd if they are not in the book

 

 

 

Agree, with only a one page press release to go one we can't for sure say what is or isn't in ghe codex and a lot is being written off on this forum based on zero information