Codex: Imperial Agents + Coteaz Reveal + Chamber Militant Battleforces

[ruralguardhipcat]

Catching up on the various previews. Very specific question: if I wanted to give my Adeptus Arbites a transport, is both the Rhino and Chimera an option? Or just one of the two? 

[Indy Techwisp]

 

Catching up on the various previews. Very specific question: if I wanted to give my Adeptus Arbites a transport, is both the Rhino and Chimera an option? Or just one of the two? 

 

The Chimera can only Transport Inquisitor models, which currently is only the 4 inquisitor options and the Inquisitorial Henchmen unit (this is why the Chimeria transports 13 models: 12 man maxxed out Inquisitorial Henchmen unit and their attached Inquisitor)

 

The Rhino can Transport any Inquisitorial Agents model, so that's what you need for Arbites.

Also technically the Rhino can also transport literally everything in the codex except Terminators, up to and including 3 Corvus Blackstars.

Expect that to be patched soon tho.

[Lord_Ikka]

What will be really interesting is to see the updated points. If the points for using Assassins or DW in other armies isn't carefully balanced, then this codex could have a really bad impact on the competitive scene. 

 

I don't plan on using any DW in my Inquisition list, probably not using GK either. So for me it will really be a mortal army with maybe a single unit of SoB in support- meaning I will be losing quite a bit (not really a difference from my normal) and leaning on as many tricks in the Navy detachment as I can. So it should be fluffy and fun to play, and I might get a win if I hit an opponent where they aren't expecting it. 

[Indy Techwisp]

 

What will be really interesting is to see the updated points. If the points for using Assassins or DW in other armies isn't carefully balanced, then this codex could have a really bad impact on the competitive scene. 

 

I don't plan on using any DW in my Inquisition list, probably not using GK either. So for me it will really be a mortal army with maybe a single unit of SoB in support- meaning I will be losing quite a bit (not really a difference from my normal) and leaning on as many tricks in the Navy detachment as I can. So it should be fluffy and fun to play, and I might get a win if I hit an opponent where they aren't expecting it. 

 

From what I've seen so far, the biggest danger this Codex presents to the comp scene in terms of souping is a 10 man full melee loadout unit of Deathwatch led by their named character and loaded into a Rhino (which they drag in without filling a slot) plus a slot free for an Assassin or an Inquisitor.

Yeah the Assassins are strong, but the DW Rhino bomb is a pretty severe threat that any Imperium army can just steal now.

 

In terms of main codex stuff tho, the Navy detachment is simply cracked and you can pull some insane stuff with it (especially if you decide to bring DW as well as Breacher spam).

[Lord_Ikka]

Yeah, the DW rhino-bomb is going to be quite nasty unless there is some sort of fix for it. Luckily for me, since I'm not planning on doing DW anything, any sort of nerf to DW via points (the most likely way that GW will try to balance issues) won't effect me. A day-one FAQ for stuff like allowing Inquisitors to choose an ORDO keyword and some other fixes wouldn't surprise me, and hopefully we get a day one points update as well.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

For the most part, yes.
It does depend on how you went about getting the models for your DW killteams, but in theory you should already have a useable Codex Marine army if you went all in on the primaris killteams.

 

Also since colourscheme doesn't matter, there's nothing stopping you just paining all your marines as Deathwatch anyway.
I've seen more than one Deathwatch Guilliman and Lion since the announcement.

Ultimately that's why I tell people just paint your dudes however you want, official Chapter or not. If someone gets pissy you're running your Carcharodons with Blood Angels, that's an opponent you'd never want around anyway. 

 

Yeah, the DW rhino-bomb is going to be quite nasty 

It got worse than before if you wanted to run it LOL

[Dark Shepherd]

Seeing all the awesome new Skaven models makes the new Coteaz model look even more bleurgh

[Lord_Ikka]

 

Seeing all the awesome new Skaven models makes the new Coteaz model look even more bleurgh

At this point I'll probably just use a Stormcast model instead- similar overall looks and some of the character Stormcast are quite decent sculpts. The Knight-Relictor in the Warcry Questor Soulsworn box is pretty spot-on for a Berserk Skull Knight w/hammer impersonator and is only lacking a psyber-eagle to be Coteaz himself. Easily fixed and boom, cooler looking Coteaz.

[ThePenitentOne]

I don't play as much as I'd like to, and certainly not as much as some people here, so this is a genuine question:

 

Is the DW Rhino bomb really that big a deal? I ask, because none of the models in it will have an army rule that does anything other than allow them to be there; none of the models in it will have a detachment rule, and none of the models in it will have access to enhancement or detachment strats.

 

Added to any Marine army, the DW rhino bomb is bad; take any other 10 man Marine unit and put it in the same rhino, and it gets all of the goodies above. Is that better than slightly jumped up load out? Again, I don't play as often as most of you, but IF it is better than than an additional unit from the host dex, it isn't by much.

 

Now certainly, in a guard army, or something it's a cool novelty. But are those ten marines worth their equivalent in guard squads that get Orders and detachment strats? Again, I'm not sure. 

[Indy Techwisp]

 

I don't play as much as I'd like to, and certainly not as much as some people here, so this is a genuine question:

 

Is the DW Rhino bomb really that big a deal? I ask, because none of the models in it will have an army rule that does anything other than allow them to be there; none of the models in it will have a detachment rule, and none of the models in it will have access to enhancement or detachment strats.

 

Added to any Marine army, the DW rhino bomb is bad; take any other 10 man Marine unit and put it in the same rhino, and it gets all of the goodies above. Is that better than slightly jumped up load out? Again, I don't play as often as most of you, but IF it is better than than an additional unit from the host dex, it isn't by much.

 

Now certainly, in a guard army, or something it's a cool novelty. But are those ten marines worth their equivalent in guard squads that get Orders and detachment strats? Again, I'm not sure. 

 

The melee damage the brick can do, especially the 10 man version, is very substantial.

Plus the Rhino bomb is already "meta" in every army that can do it, so this opens the door for other Imperium factions to get in on the tech.

In terms of effectiveness, no they're not going to be as effective in a Marine army, but the statlines of the weapons make for a good enough hammer, especially if there's a character in there with them.

 

But yeah, it's mainly a boost to non-Marine Imperium armies.

 

[brother_b]

On a side note: Unlike GSC when their codex rolled out I’ve actually seen an Imperial Agents victory in a battle report on YouTube.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

The melee damage the brick can do, especially the 10 man version, is very substantial.

Plus the Rhino bomb is already "meta" in every army that can do it, so this opens the door for other Imperium factions to get in on the tech.

In terms of effectiveness, no they're not going to be as effective in a Marine army, but the statlines of the weapons make for a good enough hammer, especially if there's a character in there with them.

 

But yeah, it's mainly a boost to non-Marine Imperium armies.

 

But why do non-Marine armies need it to begin with? Guard can get Bullgryn to hit similar levels and Sisters can just use their own melee units. AdMech armies don't even have room in their lists to attempt it. Knights already do damage without it. 

 

So who is this for?

[Mogger351]

 

But why do non-Marine armies need it to begin with? Guard can get Bullgryn to hit similar levels and Sisters can just use their own melee units. AdMech armies don't even have room in their lists to attempt it. Knights already do damage without it. 

 

So who is this for?

 

People who want to include some deathwatch or ordo xenos units in their army, or simply have the models but lack alternative options to fill that role. Or, you know, people that simply want to for fun.

[crimsondave]

Wow.  Somehow I missed they squatted Eisenhorn.  The model isn’t even that old.  

[Indy Techwisp]

 

Wow.  Somehow I missed they squatted Eisenhorn.  The model isn’t even that old.  

 

The model is, however, Resin.

 

And as we've seen, GW is rapidly culling the Resin and metal stuff in codexes.

[crimsondave]

It was?  I have the model and I don’t remember it being resin.  I am old though.  Regardless, I’m not happy about it.

Edited August 11 by crimsondave

[MadEdric]

 

 

People who want to include some deathwatch or ordo xenos units in their army, or simply have the models but lack alternative options to fill that role. Or, you know, people that simply want to for fun.

So basically not if you want to actually play with the Deathwatch army you've collected and played with for years?

[phandaal]

 

 

The model is, however, Resin.

 

And as we've seen, GW is rapidly culling the Resin and metal stuff in codexes.

 

My hottest of takes: GW should stop deleting rules just because the models are resin.

 

Really highlights how corporate the game has become over time.

[crimsondave]

 

 

My hottest of takes: GW should stop deleting rules just because the models are resin.

 

Really highlights how corporate the game has become over time.

I mean, Eisenhorn is still for sale on the website.  At least wait a couple years after you quit selling the model to squat it.

[ThePenitentOne]

What GW should do is prioritize  making plastic equivalents for resin models over everything else, and they should have done it all together as the first non-starter set of 8th.

 

Keeping rules but not models is a chapterhouse problem,

Keeping resin for the sake of keeping the unit and not causing a chapterhouse problem reduces sales and is terrible for new players.

Removing models and profiles angers older players who have the classic model.

 

Replacing resin with plastic, from a customer point of view, is the only solution that doesn't create problems.

[sairence]

 

But why do non-Marine armies need it to begin with? Guard can get Bullgryn to hit similar levels and Sisters can just use their own melee units. AdMech armies don't even have room in their lists to attempt it. Knights already do damage without it. 

 

So who is this for?

 

Guard actually might really like it. Bullgryns are really tough to shift, but their output compared to other dedicated melee armies pretty mediocre. The AP1 just doesn't cut it, literally and figuratively.

 

So Bullgryn are an anvil and a roadblock. The melee rhino bomb is a hammer, aiming to remove something.

 

As for Knights...it's a more mobile hammer I guess, with an easier time to move around. The moving through walls for the big ones solved a lot of issues, but infantry is still so much better at getting around.

 

Anyway, adding some DW or properly dangerous assasins to my Guard is definitely interesting now. Shame I can't take two Eversors. :P

 

As for Eisenhorn, it might be because he was a Black Library release, which is also why he's resin. Missing him is a shame either way, especially given the lack of customisation/ordo keyword for generic inquisitors.

Edited August 11 by sairence

[ZeroWolf]

 

What GW should do is prioritize  making plastic equivalents for resin models over everything else, and they should have done it all together as the first non-starter set of 8th.

 

Keeping rules but not models is a chapterhouse problem,

Keeping resin for the sake of keeping the unit and not causing a chapterhouse problem reduces sales and is terrible for new players.

Removing models and profiles angers older players who have the classic model.

 

Replacing resin with plastic, from a customer point of view, is the only solution that doesn't create problems.

Problem is production would probably cry at a task like that.

[Mogger351]

 

So basically not if you want to actually play with the Deathwatch army you've collected and played with for years?

Obviously not, but that wasn't the question being asked.

As much as I understand the pain of being soft-squatted I'm sadly also of the opinion they shouldn't have been an army in the first place.

[Orange Knight]

 

 

The model is, however, Resin.

 

And as we've seen, GW is rapidly culling the Resin and metal stuff in codexes.

 

It's resin, but not the awful fail cast we all hate.

 

I have the guy and he looks really great. 

 

Thankfully, you can run him using the generic Inquisitor rules. 55 points for a bolt pistol, force weapon. Some nice rules. Unfortunately we can't reflect his special sword...

[Evil Eye]

Hot take: the decision to shift almost entirely to plastic for 40K was a bad one, especially for characters. Metal (and resin) can have molds made far more easily and cheaply than plastic, and in addition you can get far more detail onto an individual piece simply by virtue of undercuts, meaning reduced partscounts and no awful jigsaw-construction with the seams that go with it. Case in point, Tor Garadon is made of over 10 parts (IIRC) whereas a metal counterpart would be 3 or 4 at most.

 

If metal/resin were still a thing, it'd be far easier to sell multiple sculpts and loadouts for characters, as the low investment costs of producing the models mean that even if the model isn't selling amazingly it can still financially justify its existence. For stuff like HQs, sergeants, specialists and upgrade kits where there's enough demand to justify their production but not enough for full plastic tooling, it's ideal. Also speaking for myself, a blister pack character is a far better impulse buy than even a box of infantry.