The Tithes

[Robbienw]

“One or two” 

[WAR]

=]Stay on Topic of Warhammer+ Tithes[=

 

Play nice!

[StrangerOrders]

The clips look really good ngl.

 

Sad about the portrayal of a female Custodes as being crammed into the 'femininity is bad and making them more masculine is the only way to communicate martial prowess' mold but that's just the cards sometimes (please take this in the spirit of feedback on the animation and stylistic choices, its neither to argue nor bait as I actually agree with female Custodes. I like to think we can be mature enough to discuss approaches to expressing (or rejecting) femininity without devolving into bickering). The actual physicallity and movement is great but the height and dimensions leave me in a weird place of eyeing my Custodes and being annoyed at how tiny they seem for all that they are beautiful models.

 

The SoS portrayal was great, no notes aside from begging for more of their range but that veers off topic so I will merely praise it and thoughtmark. 

 

It is funny to consider the numbers though, because if the Wraight books haven't been 'revealed' as not canon anymore, the SoS should still be eeking their way back to full strength after millennia of neglect right? I know its mentioned that some were retained in the Black Fleet but Aleya's eternally-angry language kind of made them sound like a rarity even then.

 

Granted, 40k is funky about rarity since it is hard for both us, the writers and most people to conceptuallize a scale measured from dozens to quadrillions.

Edited September 4 by StrangerOrders

[lansalt]

 

the Wraight books

I'm afraid that those are going to be forgotten now. Despite their quality, the Custodes/SoS characterization and events in Watchers of the Throne series are irreconcilable with the new Codex lore and The Tithes.

[DemonGSides]

 

I'm afraid that those are going to be forgotten now. Despite their quality, the Custodes/SoS characterization and events in Watchers of the Throne series are irreconcilable with the new Codex lore and The Tithes.

Why?

Edited September 4 by WAR
Removed OT Quote and post

[Blindhamster]

well, i've now watched it. Spoiler tagging to avoid... spoilers.

 

my thoughts:

 

 

- loved the representation of von ryans leapers and lictors

- the sister of silence was awesome, i was a bit unsure how she solod a lictor at first but realised it was actually a lone leaper when ACTUAL lictors arrived lol.

- i appreciated the use of actual BSL

- scene when the sister of silence says no you arent okay, everyone will be dead shortly and the custodes translates it as "yes everything is fine" made me actually laugh out loud

- speaking of... the custodes was a badass, but also supper arrogant, kind of fun in that she accuses the space marines of pride but she absolutely was the one I was thinking "wow I don't like you". Great job as Custodes should be like that, especially around space marines.

- being female didn't add anything, but it didn't take anything away either. Personally I don't really see the issue, the stuff I'd seen never said they couldn't be female, plenty alludes to men of course. Regardless of retcon or not, I don't really think it took anything away from the character and with space marines having far more established lore about being all male, I think it's good to make the other super soldiers able to be either.

- arbites were cool, i liked their portrayal a lot, fun seeing them fighting off a small nid swarm.

- the orders at the end, oof it was good seeing how the oaths and honour of the space marines warred with duty.

- finally, loved the theme all the way through of the poor psykers thinking they were getting rescued, when we know its not the case!
 

 

Edited September 4 by Blindhamster

[StrangerOrders]

 

well, i've now watched it. Spoiler tagging to avoid... spoilers.

 

my thoughts:

 

 

- loved the representation of von ryans leapers and lictors

- the sister of silence was awesome, i was a bit unsure how she solod a lictor at first but realised it was actually a lone leaper when ACTUAL lictors arrived lol.

- i appreciated the use of actual BSL

- scene when the sister of silence says no you arent okay, everyone will be dead shortly and the custodes translates it as "yes everything is fine" made me actually laugh out loud

- speaking of... the custodes was a badass, but also supper arrogant, kind of fun in that she accuses the space marines of pride but she absolutely was the one I was thinking "wow I don't like you". Great job as Custodes should be like that, especially around space marines.

- being female didn't add anything, but it didn't take anything away either. Personally I don't really see the issue, the stuff I'd seen never said they couldn't be female, plenty alludes to men of course. Regardless of retcon or not, I don't really think it took anything away from the character and with space marines having far more established lore about being all male, I think it's good to make the other super soldiers able to be either.

- arbites were cool, i liked their portrayal a lot, fun seeing them fighting off a small nid swarm.

- the orders at the end, oof it was good seeing how the oaths and honour of the space marines warred with duty.

- finally, loved the theme all the way through of the poor psykers thinking they were getting rescued, when we know its not the case!
 

 

So Arbites are a bit of a blindspot for me lorewise and I've only seen clips, does their presence make sense?

 

I always understood them as supreme enforcement officials crossed with high-end black ops but with ultimately an internal focus on the Lex with very little to do with actual warzones (outside of the slums) and other external matters. It strikes me as odd to see them around unless they were left stranded there during the invasion.

 

Mostly asking because their kill team against DEldar box confused the hell out of me and this seems similar.

 

Forgive my ignorance, just curious.

Edited September 4 by StrangerOrders

[WAR]

=]STOP THE OFF TOPIC OR WE WILL CLOSE THIS THREAD. FINAL WARNING[=

[lansalt]

 

Why?

The core of those books is the relationship between a Custodes and a Sister of Silence that doesn't make sense if they aren't gender segregated orders. And that's in addition of the SoS being reinstated as an independent organization as one of the plot lines, which apparently has never happened now.

That's why I say that it would have been better if GW made female custodes a new development, instead of pretending that they were always in the background. It's a waste of the previous good books about them, including many parts of Master of Mankind and Valdor: Birth of the Imperium.

This said, I look forward to see the episode tonight.

[RedFox]

Is there any way I can watch without a WH+ sub?

 

Though that new Inq model is very tempting...

[mecanojavi99]

 

So Arbites are a bit of a blindspot for me lorewise and I've only seen clips, does their presence make sense?

 

I always understood them as supreme enforcement officials crossed with high-end black ops but with ultimately an internal focus on the Lex with very little to do with actual warzones (outside of the slums) and other external matters. It strikes me as odd to see them around unless they were left stranded there during the invasion.

 

Mostly asking because their kill team against DEldar box confused the hell out of me and this seems similar.

 

Forgive my ignorance, just curious.

The Arbites are essentially the Imperium's version of the FBI.

 

They enforce the law in the whole Imperium, instead of only in an specific planet (that is what the Enforcers do), so it would make sense for them to keep an eye on whether a world is paying their taxes (specially critical ones like psykers)

 

[Joe]

Excellent episode - voice acting was a bit stiff in places, but it was highly enjoyable overall. M2s really coming along in leaps and bounds in animating the setting. One thing that did hurt a little was the realisation that Custodes are in desperate need of a range refresh to fix the issues with proportions. As for the character leading the Arbites (can't recall what that's called in-universe) - I don't believe we have a model like that?

 

As far as problem users in the thread goes - the moderation team are perfectly capable of issuing temporary mutes whilst letting everyone else chat as normal. I would heartily prefer if they exercised that rather than locking / nuking the thread on account of a few bad eggs.

[ThePenitentOne]

I loved this episode. I will go back and watch the first, because I didn't bother.

 

I thought the presentation of the Custodian echoed what a lot of folks had said regarding the controversy: when you're that post-human, the post-humanity is more visible than gender. The first time through, I didn't even notice that the Custodian was female- I actually rewatched the pre-amouring conversation again after reading this thread. It's obvious when you're looking for it, but easy enough to miss if you aren't. I've known some very effeminate men throughout my life, and that's what I thought the Custodian was. I think that was intentional decision by the time- showcase the post-humanity, and let people see what it would look like. Including a male Custodian for contrast might have been interesting.

 

One thing I'd like to have seen a little more of is the physical discomfort an SoS provokes in others; we saw the cargo of the blackship cringe... But everyone should have been affected by her. The Custodian, being a fellow Talon, would have built a real tolerance... But even with it, perhaps should have stood further away. The Arbites should have cringed, or noticeably tensed up. The Marines were a fair distance away, and of course would have some degree of post-human resilience. 

 

Finally, it is interesting to me to see individuals rather than units. I get a very "Agents of the Imperium" feeling when I see a single Custodian, a single sister and a bunch of Arbites working together. I like that a lot, and I feel like in Narrative games, any HQ should have the capacity to function as an Agent.

 

Edit: I hope my brief engagement with the controversy was still rooted in the screen presence of the character, rather than the generalizations about the issue that don't specifically reference elements of the animation. I don't wish to contribute to negative feelings or wreck anyone's appreciation for the animation.

Edited September 4 by ThePenitentOne
Clarifying topic adherence

[DemonGSides]

 

The core of those books is the relationship between a Custodes and a Sister of Silence that doesn't make sense if they aren't gender segregated orders

This is gonna come across as trite, but why?

[ZeroWolf]

 

Excellent episode - voice acting was a bit stiff in places, but it was highly enjoyable overall. M2s really coming along in leaps and bounds in animating the setting. One thing that did hurt a little was the realisation that Custodes are in desperate need of a range refresh to fix the issues with proportions. As for the character leading the Arbites (can't recall what that's called in-universe) - I don't believe we have a model like that?

 

As far as problem users in the thread goes - the moderation team are perfectly capable of issuing temporary mutes whilst letting everyone else chat as normal. I would heartily prefer if they exercised that rather than locking / nuking the thread on account of a few bad eggs.

I suspect the Custodes will get their refresh...I would like to say 11th but GW works in mysterious (and annoying!) ways.

[ThePenitentOne]

 

This is gonna come across as trite, but why?

 

I went back and read Iansalt's full post, because I'm curious too, though it would be off topic for this post. I have been curious about these books, but haven't yet picked them up, so I know nothing of the relationship between the characters. 

 

For me, the best Sisters lore that I've found was in the 8th ed White dwarf mini-dex. It's mostly about SoS in the Era of Indomitus, so not a lot of history, but confirmation that in the Indomitus Era, SoS were involved in the indomitus Crusade, while others maintained their duties on the Blackships, while still others continued to function as Talons and others who worked with Inquisitors.

[StrangerOrders]

 

I loved this episode. I will go back and watch the first, because I didn't bother.

 

I thought the presentation of the Custodian echoed what a lot of folks had said regarding the controversy: when you're that post-human, the post-humanity is more visible than gender. The first time through, I didn't even notice that the Custodian was female- I actually rewatched the pre-amouring conversation again after reading this thread. It's obvious when you're looking for it, but easy enough to miss if you aren't. I've known some very effeminate men throughout my life, and that's what I thought the Custodian was. I think that was intentional decision by the time- showcase the post-humanity, and let people see what it would look like. Including a male Custodian for contrast might have been interesting.

 

One thing I'd like to have seen a little more of is the physical discomfort an SoS provokes in others; we saw the cargo of the blackship cringe... But everyone should have been affected by her. The Custodian, being a fellow Talon, would have built a real tolerance... But even with it, perhaps should have stood further away. The Arbites should have cringed, or noticeably tensed up. The Marines were a fair distance away, and of course would have some degree of post-human resilience. 

 

Finally, it is interesting to me to see individuals rather than units. I get a very "Agents of the Imperium" feeling when I see a single Custodian, a single sister and a bunch of Arbites working together. I like that a lot, and I feel like in Narrative games, any HQ should have the capacity to function as an Agent.

I would echo a sentiment expressed in the Chris Wraight and ADB books about Custodes and SoS which I think does both credit.

 

The Custodes do feel trace discomfort around SoS but the reason it doesn't effect them or show is because... well, Custodes are not really capable of disgust or hate in the ways we are.

 

Oh you get the wrath and the hate of traitors and whatnot but it is very different. To use an analogy, if a Custodes needs to go diving in a septic tank the golden giant will just kind of note the gross stuff academically as they go about it but the 'ew gross' component doesnt kick in.

 

Valerion is not the best example because he is even keeled even for a Custodes but his reaction to holding a Daemon weapon is telling. He sees the promises and the visions and feels the corruption but it exists at sort of a weird remove where he is noting it the same way we read a book.

 

Actually, there is even a good PoV of a mortally wounded Custodes which is similar, he describes it as almost like puppeteering something else entirely, like it is only 'his' to a degree. As if it were really someone else's problem.

 

It lends a really haunting quality to the Custodes to realize precisely how little they care or even register about basic parts of less humanity and more... 'existence'.

 

As for your point about the gender playing second to the transhumanism, your point is sort of undermined by the posthumanity being expressed in hypermasculinity.

 

If it was an issue of muscle mass, then most female strength-focused bodybuilders have considerably broader hips and narrower shoulders than males. More extreme cases actually start loosing alot of definition in the legs and look more 'blocky' waist-down but don't do the male thing of sacrificing their necks on the altar of old MK2 power armor cosplay. No disrespect to people of either biological sex btw, I'm sure most of them can tear me in half with minimal effort. Edit: Thats the wrong thing to say, no disrepect because they have inhuman commitment and are willing to put in infinitely more effort than I think most people can into their craft, thats worthier of praise than noting their threat.

 

It is by my token denying femininity and female body proportions on the altar of making something female masculine in some misguided attempt to be 'just as good', which I think defeats the purpose if that is the goal.

 

By my token, I dislike what they do with both male and now female Custodes of making them Marines stretched vertically.

 

The book idea of their being sized up humans with perfect forms is more appealing to me.

 

Forgive the heresy of praising the movie Prometheus but I always thought Custodes should look proportionally like the Prometheans under their plate, sized up humans in disturbingly idealized health but also very much inhuman in the way their emotions don't 'look right'.

 

A Custodes trying to comfort a young SoS almost terrified the girl when he smiled... and even a young SoS is probably well beyond fear if she gets to apprentice to the master of their order. Like a greek Statue's mouth splitting into a grin and the rest of the face and head not moving.

Edited September 4 by StrangerOrders

[lansalt]

 

This is gonna come across as trite, but why?

Maybe I could open a thread in the BL subforum, since here it would be a big offtopic wall of text, but I think it would be better for people genuinely interested to read those books. They're great and IMO the best point of introduction to post 8th 40k. Or they were until now, of course.
(btw I'm not deflecting the question, I'm just still at work )

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

I went back and read Iansalt's full post, because I'm curious too, though it would be off topic for this post. I have been curious about these books, but haven't yet picked them up, so I know nothing of the relationship between the characters. 

 

For me, the best Sisters lore that I've found was in the 8th ed White dwarf mini-dex. It's mostly about SoS in the Era of Indomitus, so not a lot of history, but confirmation that in the Indomitus Era, SoS were involved in the indomitus Crusade, while others maintained their duties on the Blackships, while still others continued to function as Talons and others who worked with Inquisitors.

Tldr someone tried to wipe them out early into the Imperium and no one helped them, the Custodes ignored them and the survivors stayed in little refuges, doggedly recruiting and hunting daemons because resources or no, duty comes first.

 

Another handful served on the Black Fleet in small numbers. These got really religious while the former stayed to the Truth in secret, funnily enough.

 

After Fenris got ganked, the Highlords recalled them only to find out Trajann had been doing it quietly for some timensince the first signs Cadia was smelling funny.

 

So pretty much every SoS in those series had at least some level of seething dislike for the Imperium that betrayed them despite being loyal to the Emp. They are also fairly grateful to blue man since he more or less supported their refounding heavily since his return.

[Brother Tyler]

Note that since we're now seeing episodes, this topic has been moved to the Black Library forum, which is also for videos about the Warhammer 40,000 setting.

 

After the most recent episode, we have had to remove multiple posts commenting on socio-political issues that only create divisiveness here without contributing to the site's mission statement. There are other sites that cater to that kind of behavior - we don't want to see that kind of garbage here. There is a lot of room for constructive discussion about these episodes without straying into disruption. Ideally, I'd like to allow for the constructive discussion, so members posting the garbage will be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Seeing a Sister of Silence literally “turn off” a psyker was worth the five bucks this month. Exactly how I pictured it in my head. Ladystode was pretty funny in the British play it straight way but the fighting animations just never quite hit the mark between how big they are and how fast they are and what that would actually look like. The Arbites were fun, and I loved the “Shepherd” job idea. Hope we get a model for that. 

[DemonGSides]

 

Maybe I could open a thread in the BL subforum, since here it would be a big offtopic wall of text, but I think it would be better for people genuinely interested to read those books. They're great and IMO the best point of introduction to post 8th 40k. Or they were until now, of course.
(btw I'm not deflecting the question, I'm just still at work )

 

I've read the first, that's why I'm confused why you think gender separation is so important. It doesn't seem like that's a theme of the book. 

[Brother Tyler]

 

Maybe I could open a thread in the BL subforum...

 

Yes, a separate topic in the BL forum would be better so that this discussion can stay on topic without being sidetracked.

 

Alternately, a topic in the Imperium of Mankind forum might work if you want to make it more general about the Talons of the Emperor, with the BL books serving as one of myriad touch points.

[ThePenitentOne]

 

 I loved the “Shepherd” job idea. Hope we get a model for that. 

 

Me too.

 

But I want the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor to be plastic and have 40k rules too. I'd love to run a tithe mission where SoS have to forcibly remove Rogue Psykers from an Imperial settlement. I was hoping to see an Acquisitor in this episode, but it only really works with a unit of SoS as opposed to a single character. I did like the Arvus Lighter in there though. 

[WAR]

 

Seeing a Sister of Silence literally “turn off” a psyker was worth the five bucks this month. Exactly how I pictured it in my head. 

 

Perfect way to put it. When I was watching it was like how is this gonna translate. Nailed it.