11th Edition Space Marines?

[Flaherty]

The speed with which the DA/BA range updates proceeded got me thinking about what might be waiting for space marine fans in 11th? I assume the Space Wolves will get some kind of update over the next two years before 11th kicks off. Grey Knights could have a range refresh with all of two boxes. So it's not like the edition will hang on updating the divergent chapters.

 

Looking at the space marines that have yet to be updated, there aren't that many kits that need to cross the rubicon:

 

- Assault Terminators

- Vanguard Vets with Jump Packs

- Devastator squads (Desolation Squar mulligan)

- Centurions, but good

- Bikes, but multi-part

- Suppressors, but multi-part

 

What will be the line troop in the next edition? A new dreadnaught or two are easy to imagine.

 

I personally hope the next edition focuses more on aesthetic customization and that we see an upgrade sprue set on the order of what the Nightlords got for all the codex-compliant chapters and some of the fan favorites. But beyond that, it seems like they'll have to come up with some new troop types.

 

The new edition of AoS seems to be a flop, the launch box is still available in MASSIVE quantities at 3rd party retailers, so I wonder if we'll see a greater investment in the 40K brand – maybe a smaller edition launch every other year or something like that vs. the three year cycle.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

I honestly think suppressors, centurions and devastators may all go away. The only way devastators stay (IMO) is if they replace desolation squad and quietly pretend they never happened lol (which could happen!)

I also am not really sure we'll see assault terminators, I feel like the design space of an elite melee unit that is tanky moved to bladeguard.

 

I do think bikes will get a bigger update in 11th, and could see some other new unit obviously. Most likely tanks though.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just gonna present a "suggestion" here:

 

Considering that most of the Devastator weapon options are already covered by a new independent unit, I feel that GW will finish off that plan before actually getting rid of Devastators.

 

But once that is done, I think they'll "merge" the Tactical Marines and the Devastators into one Primaris unit.

Maybe just into "Tactical Intercessors" or maybe they'll get a better name.

 

Essentially I think they'll just add the Heavy Weapon options the Devastators had (or rather their Primaris version) to the list of special weapons the "Tactical Intercessors" can have, tho knowing GW it'll be "1 of the following options" rather than letting you take 4 Lascannons or whatever.

[Flaherty]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I honestly think suppressors, centurions and devastators may all go away. The only way devastators stay (IMO) is if they replace desolation squad and quietly pretend they never happened lol (which could happen!)

I also am not really sure we'll see assault terminators, I feel like the design space of an elite melee unit that is tanky moved to bladeguard.

 

I do think bikes will get a bigger update in 11th, and could see some other new unit obviously. Most likely tanks though.

I agree on all those potential deletions. I'm just excited thinking about what may be coming. 

 

- Will we seek a faction-specific starter again, like Dark Vengence?

 

- Is there going to be a set of new unit types?

 

As the Primaris-ization of the range nears its completion there's some generally uncharted waters which is really fun!

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Flaherty said:

- Assault Terminators

- Vanguard Vets with Jump Packs

- Devastator squads (Desolation Squar mulligan)

- Centurions, but good

- Bikes, but multi-part

- Suppressors, but multi-part

 

Of these, the last two are virtual locks. I'm sure the reason we haven't seen any bike characters aside from the push-fit Chaplain is because they'll start being introduced alongside the MPK Outriders. The ETB squad along with the Chaplain and ATV were sort of a preview of coming attractions.

 

I've said almost since Suppressors came out that they could be amazing models if GW would let up on the insane dictate that all jump pack models have to be on either flight stands or jumping off of helpfully-placed bits of rubble. Shrike was a break from this, but he still had to be stuck on top of a large bit of terrain in order to raise him up to the heights that all jump squads were at. MAYBE now with the new Lemartes model, we're seeing the designers finally being given the green light to allow jump-equipped models to actually stand on the ground like Suppressors should. Their whole armor shtick was designed so that they could brace properly on the ground while firing those heavy cannons. Just putting them in proper firing poses on the ground would go a long way towards improving people's opinions of them. So fingers crossed.

 

Vanguard Vets - this one's easy. They will return, but almost certainly in Shrike-pattern Phobos armor. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we see them ahead of 11th-Ed 40K as part of the new Kill Team range, since we're apparently headed in the direction of flying kill teams and Kill Team loves them some Phobos-armored Marines ever since the 2018 version of the game came out with the "Fangs of Ulfrich" box being one of the first independent boxes.

 

Assault Terminators. Incredibly likely. I wouldn't be surprised if they showed up even before 10th ended, but they'd also be an enticing part of the 11th-Ed launch box and subsequent MPK wave.

 

Devastators. Said a while back that while the concept of Devastators seems to go against GW's new design philosophy for Fire Support squads where everyone takes the same weapon, I could see a Veteran Devastator squad becoming a thing. Sternguard are really veteran Battleline troops in spite of the verbiage about them being ranged specialists and both Bladeguard and Vanguard vets are Close Support, so an actual veteran Fire Support squad would make sense. Give them one of every heavy weapon that a Tacticus unit can take in the box and then allow mixing and matching just like the existing Devastator rules. At this point, enough kits have come out that they SHOULD lighten up on the restriction of only being allowed whatever number of weapons actually exists in the box.

 

Centurions. This one's kind of tough. I would personally like to see a Primaris-sized up-armored squad. The problem is that we've already seen what a lightly-armed and armored Primaris combat walker looks like in the Invictor. An equivalent suit that's actually supposed to be more armored and better gunned would really need to be more dreadnought-like in size. And while I would be in favor of seeing such a thing since it would fill an obvious hole in the lore*, I don't know that GW will release a unit that is basically direct  competition with the existing Dreadnought range, especially when anything they do to try to set it apart would still leave it uncomfortably close to the Redemptor (balanced), Brutalis (close support), or Ballistus (fire support) when all is said and done.

 

*The hole in question being what do fresh-out-of-the-vat Ultima Founding chapters have in their arsenal to take on situations where established chapters would call in a Dreadnought? This is really (one of the reasons) why the initial 8th-Ed timeline was set over a century after the Primaris were introduced, to give those test-tube chapters time to take some losses and inter some honored brothers into Dreadnought chassis. It doesn't make sense that a brand-new off-the-factory-floor chapter would have ANY candidates for Dreadnought duty, let alone brothers who had an established history showing their merit for such an honor. With the revised 9th-plus timeline, they really should have equivalent combat walkers piloted by Techmarines or standard battle brothers. But with these units inevitably being so similar to regular Dreadnoughts in function, I don't know that lore reasons alone would drive GW to fill this gap. We only got the Invictor because as a lighter "stealth walker" it didn't tread on the toes of GW's established or planned Dreadnoughts.

 

There are a couple of other things I think we'll see (Grav Rifle squad), but as far as "new" units we're really into the home stretch.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I really don't see Centurions and Devastators sticking around. With Gravis armour we have chunky marines and GW doesn't seem to want the mixed weapon approach of devs preferring units specifically kitted out with one weapon.

 

We have Hellblasters, Infernus and Desolators to cover some of the Dev Squad weapons more or less so we could see a squad with all lascannons (or more likely las-talons) and non gravis squads with heavy bolters and multi meltas.

 

Though this is GW so who knows.

 

 

 

 

[ThaneOfTas]

7 hours ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

Vanguard Vets - this one's easy. They will return, but almost certainly in Shrike-pattern Phobos armor

Oh God-Emperor please no, they did so well on the Sternguard, I'd for them to whiff on the Vanguard Vets like that. Although arguably I guess it doesn't matter to me as I'll be kitbashing my own based on the old kit and the Foot Assault Intercessors anyway. But regardless, i'd rather that they take reviers back to the drawing board and make them a phobos jump pack skirmishing force, maybe they'd be worth a damn then.

 

As for the Devastators, id love for them to stick around/come back, I'm not expecting it but I'd love it if they did. And if they got rid of the Desolators while they were at it I certainly wouldn't complain.

 

I honestly dont like either the Centurions or the Suppressors odds tbh, Both feel likely to be on the chopping block.

 

New multipart Outriders and Bike characters are almost a given.

 

Same with Assault Terminators.

 

I maintain that a Tacticus armoured Neo-Volkite squad feels likely eventually. I'm personally also hoping for a proper Lascannon squad (and not a lastalon one)

 

I have also long been a fan of the idea of a "Tactical Intercessor" squad, especially if it serves as a new kit for the current Intercessor, we know that GW arent above replacing kits that are that new either, they've done it for AOS.

Edited August 7 by ThaneOfTas

[Evil Eye]

Honestly they probably should redo the Intercessor kit. A huge amount of space on the sprues is taken up by the alternate bolter pieces, which are now no longer in the rules and were never a very good idea to begin with. Redoing it would allow them to include more parts to actually allow some aesthetic variety, as well as special/heavy weapons.

[Orange Knight]

Devastators should not return. Their roles are covered and performed better by existing units: Eradicators. Hellblasters, Desolators, Heavy Intercessors.

I completely understand that some people might want them to, but the codex is already bloated. If anything, some units should get cut or consolidated - Primaris included!

 

Multipart Outriders - an absolute must, and we need a Captain on Bike. The lack of options and characters here really hurts any armies themed similar to the White Scars.

 

Suppressors - a very unique unit. Could actually be great if they can be taken in larger squads. I would be happy with a multipart kit that didn't use the awful flight stands. Otherwise they should be dropped from the range!

 

Centurions - could be dropped. Could also be kept unchanged as their scale actually fits well with Primaris. No change actually needed, but would be nice. Very low priority.

 

Vanguard Vets - should be dropped. I don't think we'll ever see infantry units that combine speed, hitting power and defensive power outside of some thematic but limited chapter unique options. Ultimately a squad with power swords isn't going to be much different to Assault Intercessors. The trend for unit build variety is being condensed and streamlined, not expanded.

 

Assault Terminators - Will probably be released. I'm crushingly disappointed with the unit design of the tactical variant. The kit looks incredibly but in terms of function it's more like a unit from 2nd/3rd editions and will always struggle when compared to more dedicated squads. The assault variant doesn't suffer in the same way at least.

 

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Honestly they probably should redo the Intercessor kit. A huge amount of space on the sprues is taken up by the alternate bolter pieces, which are now no longer in the rules and were never a very good idea to begin with. Redoing it would allow them to include more parts to actually allow some aesthetic variety, as well as special/heavy weapons.

honestly, I think this is a given in 11th, tacticals were the most updated kit for marines, intercessors are likely to be that going forward.

[Marshal Reinhard]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:30 PM, Blindhamster said:

I honestly think suppressors, centurions and devastators may all go away. The only way devastators stay (IMO) is if they replace desolation squad and quietly pretend they never happened lol (which could happen!)

I also am not really sure we'll see assault terminators, I feel like the design space of an elite melee unit that is tanky moved to bladeguard.

 

I do think bikes will get a bigger update in 11th, and could see some other new unit obviously. Most likely tanks though.

Think this might be a first, me disagreeing with you. But i dont feel blade guard and assault terminators overlapping is a problem. We have a lot of marine units doing that. Like intercessors and heavy intercessors, neither going anywhere if you ask me

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

honestly, I think this is a given in 11th, tacticals were the most updated kit for marines, intercessors are likely to be that going forward.

 

I can see this happening, especially as the bolt rifle variants were consolidated.

 

Would be pretty cool to take two special weapons, but ultimately it's thematic more than anything. The days of a single melta-gun blowing up a tank are long gone (and thank God for that).

 

That being said, before they do this they should cut the older infantry units from the range, including the tiny tanks.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a Landraider glow up. Frankly I'm disappointed that the glorious plastic Spartan kit didn't just replace the old Raiders. It could be explained in the lore as a the rediscovery of the STC, and it's massive transport capacity and firepower would actually be very useful.

[Indy Techwisp]

Hi again.

 

I very much disagree with both the idea that Vanguard Vets will be dropped entirely and with the idea that Primaris Vanguard Vets will be in Phobos armour.

 

I'm pretty certain that they'll be getting updated in 11th, specifically because the Primaris Jump Captain was new with 10th, and hasn't got Thunder Hammer + Shield in their kit, but retained that option for some reason, which I highly doubt is just GW being generous.

That, combined with GW making sure Primaris Marines can't lead a unit that doesn't share an armour mark with them (unless said unit is Firstborn), makes me certain Primaris Vanguard Vets would be in Tacticus.

 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Vanguard Vets - should be dropped. I don't think we'll ever see infantry units that combine speed, hitting power and defensive power outside of some thematic but limited chapter unique options. Ultimately a squad with power swords isn't going to be much different to Assault Intercessors. The trend for unit build variety is being condensed and streamlined, not expanded.

To be specific tho, Jump Pack Assault Intercessors don't quite fill the same role as Vanguard Veterans, which is technically an actual Bodyguard unit (JPAI's aren't defensive enough for that role).

Consider them essentially Bladeguard Veterans with a slightly worse Weapon Skill and Flight.

Edited August 8 by Indy Techwisp

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Think this might be a first, me disagreeing with you. But i dont feel blade guard and assault terminators overlapping is a problem. We have a lot of marine units doing that. Like intercessors and heavy intercessors, neither going anywhere if you ask me

You're probably right honestly, plus GW like money!

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

That being said, before they do this they should cut the older infantry units from the range, including the tiny tanks.

Absolutely not. The Primaris tanks are horrible looking things and the idea of the noble Predator or Whirlwind being replaced with those anti-grav atrocities is sickening. Just let Primaris ride in Rhinos and Razorbacks if we must continue the Primaris farce.

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I wouldn't mind seeing a Landraider glow up.

The Land Raider is a kit that's definitely showing its age but it needs a facelift, not a total replacement. Redoing it to fit together better and have the Crusader/Redeemer options in the same box would be nice.

[Orange Knight]

I think the Repulsor Executioner looks great, as do the Gladiator variants.

 

I agree the OG Repulsor and Impulsor have a few too many spindly bits, but ever since the rules for the various guns were consolidated, you can build them to look a lot cleaner.

 

As for the Landraider, it's far too similar to the Repulsor. The tanks basically do the same job - albeit the Landraider is currently better at delivering assaulting units as the assault ramp rule came back. In the future the Repulsor might become better again if they give it some rules relating to the fact that it hovers. It's the kind of thing that changes from edition to edition.

I think the Spartan actually offers something notably different - it's transport capacity is significantly bigger. It allows for the movement of things like 6 Centurions AND a further squad on top if need be.

 

We don't need 4 transport tanks doing basically the same thing.

 

Also, for better or for worse, the Primaris have the design ethos of brutalist technology that looks a step above the rest of the Imperium. You can make the argument that all of their vehicles should be hovering to stay on theme more consistently. I would have argued the other way before Forgeworld was relegated to legends, but the best tracked vehicle aren't really a part of the 40k faction anymore.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Wouldn't shrike style vanguard vets be in omnis armor rather than phobos?

 

Anyway, since we got refreshed terminators, it stands to reason we should get a refreshed land raider to go with them. And a 40k era one at that. Though I guess if they wont update it, ill eventually cave and get a 30k era one. I don't really wanna spend on the older 40k era kits that are closing in on 2 decades old at his point

[Evil Eye]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

As for the Landraider, it's far too similar to the Repulsor.

Then get rid of the Repulsor. It's an ugly toy that never should have existed to begin with whilst the Land Raider is an iconic design that still looks great even with its dated kit.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

A hard disagree on getting rid of Vanguard Veterans. Do that you need to get rid of Sternguard and Bladeguard and just have a genric Veteran Squad. The Stern/Van/Blade all fill their own little niche. Hopefully with the Vanguard GW do what they did with Sternguard and just give a nice glow up without silliness. 

 

I would not mourn the loss of Suppressors. 

 

I think come 11th we will see all the remaining Firstborn dropped. 

 

As for the tanks I don't like that they hover. I do like the Gladiator & Repulsor but I don't love them. I don't think they're iconic. I don't think they're grimdark. They're just alright. I do think the Land Raider will stick around for 11th but I think all the Rhino variants will be gone. Which I would be very sad about. 

 

I would like to see the following removed:

 

Judicar

Anicent in Terminator Armour

Primaris Ancient

Bladeguard Ancient

[DemonGSides]

I'd love for ancients to get folded back into their appropriate squads. So unnecessary. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Wouldn't shrike style vanguard vets be in omnis armor rather than phobos?

 

Shrike is in Phobos. And big hefty ground-bracing boots wouldn't provide any benefit to lightly-armed close-in melee guys.

 

Edited August 8 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I very much disagree with both the idea that Vanguard Vets will be dropped entirely and with the idea that Primaris Vanguard Vets will be in Phobos armour.

 

I'm pretty certain that they'll be getting updated in 11th, specifically because the Primaris Jump Captain was new with 10th, and hasn't got Thunder Hammer + Shield in their kit, but retained that option for some reason, which I highly doubt is just GW being generous.

That, combined with GW making sure Primaris Marines can't lead a unit that doesn't share an armour mark with them (unless said unit is Firstborn), makes me certain Primaris Vanguard Vets would be in Tacticus.

 

The thing is, the "Herohammer" rules bundling characters with squads are an invention that would greatly postdate the Primaris-range redesign of the Vanguard Vets. Assuming an on-sale date in the next couple of years, that would have been through design and partway into production before the rules team came up with armor restrictions to receive character buffs.

 

Shrike was obviously not intended to be the only Phobos-armored jump marine in the universe and his loadout is basically a Vanguard Vet's default.

 

Far more likely that if there's a discrepancy between a planned model and the rules, it's going to be the rules team that's told to eat it. Rather than scrapping a kit that's in the pipeline, in this case I'd bet more on a rules carveout where characters with the JUMP PACK keyword can ignore armor restrictions when joining squads, as long as those squads also have the JUMP PACK keyword.

 

Edited August 8 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[DemonGSides]

I could see Shrike style phobos jump units, but I don't think they need to be Vanguard Vets.  They can be distinct units; Space Marines are very used to similar units covering the same niches but with "Just one difference!"

[HeadlessCross]

10 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Devastators should not return. Their roles are covered and performed better by existing units: Eradicators. Hellblasters, Desolators, Heavy Intercessors.

I completely understand that some people might want them to, but the codex is already bloated. If anything, some units should get cut or consolidated - Primaris included!

 

Multipart Outriders - an absolute must, and we need a Captain on Bike. The lack of options and characters here really hurts any armies themed similar to the White Scars.

 

Suppressors - a very unique unit. Could actually be great if they can be taken in larger squads. I would be happy with a multipart kit that didn't use the awful flight stands. Otherwise they should be dropped from the range!

 

Centurions - could be dropped. Could also be kept unchanged as their scale actually fits well with Primaris. No change actually needed, but would be nice. Very low priority.

 

Vanguard Vets - should be dropped. I don't think we'll ever see infantry units that combine speed, hitting power and defensive power outside of some thematic but limited chapter unique options. Ultimately a squad with power swords isn't going to be much different to Assault Intercessors. The trend for unit build variety is being condensed and streamlined, not expanded.

 

Assault Terminators - Will probably be released. I'm crushingly disappointed with the unit design of the tactical variant. The kit looks incredibly but in terms of function it's more like a unit from 2nd/3rd editions and will always struggle when compared to more dedicated squads. The assault variant doesn't suffer in the same way at least.

 

I gotta disagree on a couple points. 

 

1. Devastators should encompass Hellblasters and Infernus and Desolators. We don't need separate datasheets for "Heavy Weapon Squad" because they don't really all need a different bespoke rule. 

2. Vanguard Vets need to stay for mostly the fact Bladeguard are more a bodyguard unit. That you think they should Chapter specific is downright silly and as bad as saying Sternguard should be Chapter specific. If you don't want them, just don't take them. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option though. 

[Paladin777]

Phobos units are stealth troops, vanvets are shock troops. They aren't exactly compatible. I think they'll get embiggened like the termies and sternguard. 
 

that said, I can also see the rhino chassis tanks going away, which makes me sad as I really don't like the grav tanks. 
 

Notable exception: the RepEx has a pretty cool silhouette, but the grav plates are still dumb looking imo.

Edited August 9 by Paladin777