11th Edition Space Marines?

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Paladin777 said:

Phobos units are stealth troops, vanvets are shock troops. They aren't exactly compatible. I think they'll get embiggened like the termies and sternguard. 
 

that said, I can also see the rhino chassis tanks going away, which makes me sad as I really don't like the grav tanks. 
 

Notable exception: the RepEx has a pretty cool silhouette, but the grav plates are still dumb looking imo.

The Gladiators and Impulsor are fine. Speeders are whatever. The BIG ones though are a mess. 

[Paladin777]

14 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The Gladiators and Impulsor are fine. Speeders are whatever. The BIG ones though are a mess. 

If you like them, more power to you. I don't. 
 

It's just my opinion. 
 

edit: I just found some tank tread STL's for the gladiator on Cults3d. I may have to download that to save for later!

 

not the be-all-to-end-all, but it looks much better imo!

Edited August 9 by Paladin777

[Dark Shepherd]

Plasma devs: Hellblasters

Melta devs: Eradicators

Las devs: Eliminators

Missile devs: Devastation Squad

Heavy Bolter devs: Heavy Intercessors

 

...devastator squads aint coming back BUT we might get a Grav Gun squad

[ThaneOfTas]

7 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

The Gladiators and Impulsor are fine. Speeders are whatever

Interestingly the speeder is the only one of the new Primaris vehicles that I actually quite like. Everything else I cannot abide but the speeders grew on me, still don't own one but that's down to my pile of shame being appalling rather than lack of interest.

 

2 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Las devs: Eliminators

Yeah now I really disagree there, the Las Talon doesn't hold a candle to a lascannon, they just don't do the same things at all.

Edited August 9 by ThaneOfTas

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Plasma devs: Hellblasters

Melta devs: Eradicators

Las devs: Eliminators

Missile devs: Devastation Squad

Heavy Bolter devs: Heavy Intercessors

 

...devastator squads aint coming back BUT we might get a Grav Gun squad

 

I would love a new Gravis unit with Grav-Guns. The same way Tor Garadon has one attached to his backpack, freeing up his hands.

 

They could be some sort of elite Gravis unit, and you could chose either swords or fists, and perhaps a secondary firearm.

[Marshal Reinhard]

11 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

1. Devastators should encompass Hellblasters and Infernus and Desolators. We don't need separate datasheets for "Heavy Weapon Squad" because they don't really all need a different bespoke rule.

I dont think the different squads were made with the objective so they could each have their bespoke rules.

[Paladin777]

No, but I'll bet the GW rules team is glad for the happy accident. 

Edited August 10 by Paladin777

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

12 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Phobos units are stealth troops, vanvets are shock troops. They aren't exactly compatible.

 

Stealth is only one of the benefits of Phobos armor. It also offers improved speed and maneuverability, which is entirely compatible with being a flying, melee-focused shock troop.

 

Edited August 9 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[Marshal Reinhard]

With desolators I think they'd sooner quietly renew the kit rather than drop it entirely. People mostly seem to dislike the look of their guns, which could be changed.

 

Or if it is dropped, it wont be for long while. Centurions stuck around quite a while (they're still here even) despite looking hideous, sorry anyone who likes em.

Edited August 10 by Marshal Reinhard

[DemonGSides]

I almost bought a pack of half priced desolators today. But even as targets of kit bash fodder, their stances are just boring. 

[Beta galactosidase]

 

I gotta disagree on a couple points. 

 

2. Vanguard Vets need to stay for mostly  the fact Bladeguard are more a bodyguard unit. That you think they should Chapter specific is downright silly and as bad as saying Sternguard should be Chapter specific. If you don't want them, just don't take them. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option though. 

 

 

Veteran Assault Squads fundamentally are a chapter specific unit.  They have existed longest because the blood drinking chapters do irresponsible things due to their addictions that normal chapters don't and can't do.

There are many in and out of universe reasons why the existence of sternguard doesn't imply the existence of VAS. Let's skip those ATM, since the most important reason is what VAS in normal chapters does to us the players and do the player base.

There's a post in a different recent thread where the user complains that Terminators should all carry assault cannons as stock instead of storm bolters.  Many players, not just ones whove been in a mitary, know that rotary cannons use up box magazines like those in just a few trigger pulls, and that every member of the squad carries extra magazines for the single cannon.  Having  just the one cannon in the squad get us a little bit into the minute to minute battlefield experience of the terminators.  However, this user and other players who are like he is are missing out on this aspect of Space marines, partly because it cant be included in the rules for this scale of wargame. 

We are depriving ourselves if we say that terminator weapons can be mixed and matched that way, and also when we mix and match VAS into any chapter just for the sake of a structural concept equating them to sternguard.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

 

Veteran Assault Squads fundamentally are a chapter specific unit.  They have existed longest because the blood drinking chapters do irresponsible things due to their addictions that normal chapters don't and can't do.

There are many in and out of universe reasons why the existence of sternguard doesn't imply the existence of VAS. Let's skip those ATM, since the most important reason is what VAS in normal chapters does to us the players and do the player base.

There's a post in a different recent thread where the user complains that Terminators should all carry assault cannons as stock instead of storm bolters.  Many players, not just ones whove been in a mitary, know that rotary cannons use up box magazines like those in just a few trigger pulls, and that every member of the squad carries extra magazines for the single cannon.  Having  just the one cannon in the squad get us a little bit into the minute to minute battlefield experience of the terminators.  However, this user and other players who are like he is are missing out on this aspect of Space marines, partly because it cant be included in the rules for this scale of wargame. 

We are depriving ourselves if we say that terminator weapons can be mixed and matched that way, and also when we mix and match VAS into any chapter just for the sake of a structural concept equating them to sternguard.

Wut

Terminators sucking at their supposed role has nothing to with Vanguard existing. 

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Interestingly the speeder is the only one of the new Primaris vehicles that I actually quite like. Everything else I cannot abide but the speeders grew on me, still don't own one but that's down to my pile of shame being appalling rather than lack of interest.

 

Yeah now I really disagree there, the Las Talon doesn't hold a candle to a lascannon, they just don't do the same things at all.

I love me a proper lascannon. But IMO from a design studio POV they could be seen as similar enough

 

For Primaris Tactical Squad, if they sold a 10 man squad with 2 of each sergeant melee option and 2 of each special and/or heavy weapon option, they would sell so many boxes it would be unreal

Edited August 10 by Dark Shepherd

[Paladin777]

 

For Primaris Tactical Squad, if they sold a 10 man squad with 2 of each sergeant melee option and 2 of each special and/or heavy weapon option, they would sell so many boxes it would be unreal

But that goes against what seems to be GW's current design philosophy so hard that I'm surprised that it's even being brought up. 
 

Anymore GW seems to want to severely limit a squad's options at least partially for the sake of easy balancing. I'm sure it also has something to do with their bottom line. 

[ThaneOfTas]

 

But IMO from a design studio POV they could be seen as similar enough

How do you figure? Visually they look about as alike as a Bolter and a heavy bolter, Rules wise they have completely different use cases.

 

 

For Primaris Tactical Squad, if they sold a 10 man squad with 2 of each sergeant melee option and 2 of each special and/or heavy weapon option, they would sell so many boxes it would be unreal

I would figure out how to survive without food i'd buy so many.

 

 

But that goes against what seems to be GW's current design philosophy so hard that I'm surprised that it's even being brought up

Mainly because the current kit is full of bits that no longer serve any purpose and that sprue space needs filling, in addition, the Tactical squad is on its last legs, so merging the two feels like it *should* be a no brainer move. And on the topic of design philosophy i would point to the Sternguard squad, which while certainly not as versatile as previous editions, does still come with a good variety of options.

[Paladin777]

 

Mainly because the current kit is full of bits that no longer serve any purpose and that sprue space needs filling, in addition, the Tactical squad is on its last legs, so merging the two feels like it *should* be a no brainer move. And on the topic of design philosophy i would point to the Sternguard squad, which while certainly not as versatile as previous editions, does still come with a good variety of options.

Other than the sergeant melee weapons (of which the power fist is obviously the best option, but that's the same with every sergeant that can take special melee weapons), there's the choice between 2 somewhat balanced choices for the squad, and 2x 1-per-5 reasonably balanced heavy weapons.

 

This seems to be a very similar design philosophy as Eliminators, aggressors, and inceptors. None of which are tac squad levels of disparity of balance between options, ie. lascannon vs heavy bolter. 

Edited August 10 by Paladin777

[Dark Shepherd]

At present Intercessors can take 4 sergeant melee weapon options that arent in the kit, so I think theyd want to rectify that. DA upgrade sprue only has one of those options, BA two

 

2 of each is probably overly wishful; 10 man Assault Intercessor kit has one of each

 

We have though seen a shift /improvement in design philosophy after the lack of options in initial Primaris kits

 

For the las guys its me guessing the design studio thinking dude with power armour with heavy las weapon

Edited August 10 by Dark Shepherd

[Orange Knight]

Excellent point about so many of the options not being in the kit. I think that's a very compelling reason to update them.

 

I just hope that GW can get the book streamlined going forward. Consolidate datasheets and remove the older range so that the look is more consistent. 

 

Do you guys think any other Primaris units are deserving of an update?

 

I think that basically anything which was packed with multiple variations of the same gun - Hellblasters, Heavy Intercessors, etc, could now get an update...

[Paladin777]

I honestly don't want them to make a new box for any of the 10-in-a-box kits. 
 

I can't help feeling like they'd cut them down to 5man boxes and charge nearly the same price for them. 

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Excellent point about so many of the options not being in the kit. I think that's a very compelling reason to update them.

 

I just hope that GW can get the book streamlined going forward. Consolidate datasheets and remove the older range so that the look is more consistent. 

 

Do you guys think any other Primaris units are deserving of an update?

 

I think that basically anything which was packed with multiple variations of the same gun - Hellblasters, Heavy Intercessors, etc, could now get an update...

They could do updates of more 8th ed kits to include more sergeant options and or weapon variants eg anti vehicle Inceptors

 

I dont think theres much more consolidation they can do, more a removal of kits

 

Reivers might be at risk (if theyve been selling badly)

Suppressors might go but I dont think will get fleshed out/multipart release. Theyre only available in the GW only Vanguard task force so if that goes theyre gone

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

At present Intercessors can take 4 sergeant melee weapon options that arent in the kit, so I think theyd want to rectify that. DA upgrade sprue only has one of those options, BA two

 

2 of each is probably overly wishful; 10 man Assault Intercessor kit has one of each

 

 

No, it has two of each Sergeant melee option. The AI box is two five-man kits repeated.

 

Edited August 10 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[CL_Mission]

 

Do you guys think any other Primaris units are deserving of an update?

I'd like to see Hellblaster updated and get the same treatment as Eradicators and Heavy Intercessors, for every 5 marines you can take a plasma cannon. Infernus Marines should go the same way and get a pyrecannon every 5. These two squads could even been made into a single datasheet and a single box since Infernus don't have a proper kit yet.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I still think it will be the eventual Grav-Rifle squad that shares a multi-build kit with the Infernus Marines. And when that happens, I do expect a Pyre Cannon option to be part of the kit, along with hopefully some Sergeant options packed in.

 

Probably 2026 unless they do another Agastus-style mini-wave before 10th is over, though.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

The speed with which the DA/BA range updates proceeded got me thinking about what might be waiting for space marine fans in 11th? I assume the Space Wolves will get some kind of update over the next two years before 11th kicks off. Grey Knights could have a range refresh with all of two boxes. So it's not like the edition will hang on updating the divergent chapters.

 

Looking at the space marines that have yet to be updated, there aren't that many kits that need to cross the rubicon:

 

- Assault Terminators

- Vanguard Vets with Jump Packs

- Devastator squads (Desolation Squar mulligan)

- Centurions, but good

- Bikes, but multi-part

- Suppressors, but multi-part

 

What will be the line troop in the next edition? A new dreadnaught or two are easy to imagine.

 

I personally hope the next edition focuses more on aesthetic customization and that we see an upgrade sprue set on the order of what the Nightlords got for all the codex-compliant chapters and some of the fan favorites. But beyond that, it seems like they'll have to come up with some new troop types.

 

The new edition of AoS seems to be a flop, the launch box is still available in MASSIVE quantities at 3rd party retailers, so I wonder if we'll see a greater investment in the 40K brand – maybe a smaller edition launch every other year or something like that vs. the three year cycle.

 

 

 

Grey Knights would get a new Kaldor Draigo too! Hopefully another generic Brotherhood Captain?

 

Devastator squads will go away next edition. Ditto for tactical squads, and centurions. Bikes, definitely gone. Suppressors entered the space marine line as primaris. Now they could release another primaris unit or two that fills the gap of devastators and/or centurions?

 

AoS will always be a second class citizen and sorta niche compared to 40k, even more so now that Warhammer Fantasy has been re-released. I think in the far future (7-10 years) its going to come down to does GW have the manufacturing and resources capability to keep AoS _AND _a robust Warhammer Fantasy line going, and/or thus slowly phase out and cancel one or the other? Or do they grow their manufacturing and personnel capacity to a level that can accompany a robust version of both games? If I had to wager based on GW's corporate patterns, I see them ending one or the other of their big fantasy miniature wargames in the distant future and putting all of their resources behind the one that emerges the winner.

 

 

Edited August 10 by Helias_Tancred

[Blindhamster]

I doubt there will be a robust Warhammer old world line tbh