I learned something new with 40k and GW today

[Helias_Tancred]

When a codex is released, they also sell data cards with it. I knew that ... but once those data cards sell out, that's it, they are forever gone. One of my good friends is getting into 40k and he picked up the Leviathan box long ago when it released. He also picked up the  new Tyranid codex recently when it released. Today we couldn't figure out why there were no data cards for Tyranids out there? Turns out GW produced a pitiful amount with the codex release, they sold out quickly, and well that's it ... not to be made again. After some online research I realized this was the norm with all codex releases in 10th. They pushed these cards, they're great imo, and then they do this crap?

 

That is just frigging stupid on GW's part why they don't make cards for factions after their codex releases? What about people new to the hobby? What about people who decide to take on a new collection/army?  I'm sorry but having the app, or even your codex doesn't compare to the ease and convenience of having data cards.

 

I was surprised by this. Glad I bought the space marine cards when I bought their codex is all I can say? I didn't know this was their norm? Again, just moronic.

 

 

Edited August 11 by Helias_Tancred

[Lord_Ikka]

It's mainly because within 6 months the cards will be invalidated by various errata, just like their codices. GW has switched to producing gaming content for the competitive scene, but done so in a very half-in/half-out way: they still sell physical rulebooks/cards but are also frequently updating those rules with digital FAQs, requiring customers who want to be properly tournament-ready to get those updates online. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your reply but they make one round of data cards when they release a codex, and then they don't make any more when they sell out. If you look at their website, all of the codices they released in 10th so far they don't have the new cards listed. They sold out the original batch, they're gone.

 

Most of the those in the hobby are not in the competitive scene. We'd like to have cards, even if we have to edit them with a sharpie ;)

 

 

 

[Bryan Blaire]

They aren’t going to sell a physical product that isn’t reflective of the current state of the game (i.e. what they have updated the game to), regardless of whether people want them or not.  They very likely have sales figures that show it isn’t worth them making another print run with updated values on cards given the cost of cards and the need to pull old ones off the shelves at a loss.  Overall, while it might be worth it for some customers to have GW keep carrying the cards, GW has likely done a business evaluation that shows it isn’t worth it to them, as frustrating as that can be for something that you do want.

Edited August 11 by Bryan Blaire

[Lord_Ikka]

GW doesn't make a second or third printing of the datacards because their target customers, ie- the competitive players, won't buy them. The viewpoint from competition players is that there isn't any point in spending money on an accessory that is possibly going to be useless in the next balance pass. Yes, the datacards are nice, and some comp players will buy them on release so that they can easily understand stats/rules, but they aren't a necessary purchase by any means. The target market for datacards is casual players, which is not what GW is currently aiming at in terms of their products- they are targeting competitive players because those competitive players are the ones that meta-chase and spend lots of money on specific units that are good for a sliver of time in competition. Casual players can and will play for years with their current armies, regardless of what is good in any given edition, because they are fans of that specific faction. Competition players will think nothing of buying three units as long as that unit is currently really good in the meta, whereas casuals will purchase not based purely on gameplay but also aesthetics and lore.*

 

GW makes one printing because they can normally count on that one printing selling out, which means that they have a guaranteed profit. A second printing would have to be worth it in terms of cost/profit, and GW obviously doesn't think it is worth it, most likely because they don't think competitive players would purchase it.

 

* None of this is me bashing casual players or making any sort of statistical statement of whether casuals/competition players are the larger base, it is just simply an observation on how GW has acted in the last 5-10 years. A good comparison would be how casinos treat their "whales" vs regular customers in terms of service- both get comp'd stuff, but a whale will get more attention and focus because he is going to spend much more than the average customer. 

[Antarius]

In addition to everything else that’s been said, there is also an issue with production/warehouse/shelfspace capacity, which means that other products need to be produced/stored instead of the (outdated) datacards. It might be annoying, but it’s just the way it is and the alternative would probably be that (even) more of their mainline products were temporarily out of stock than is currently the case.

 

Now, of course it would be preferable that there were fewer factions and that the datacards were not outdated quite so swiftly (and that the game was remotely interesting), so it made sense for them to be kept in stock but, well… 

[Firedrake Cordova]

The lack of availability of the supporting products is frustrating.  

 

The other option is simply to make your own (there are some tools online), or to use a tool like Battlescribe to generate your roster in a nice printable format. Whilst it does take some time, it could save you a bit of money which can go towards more paint.  

[LameBeard]

Imagine if GW made the pdf free after a short period following the data cards being sold out (and updating said pdf with balance passes). That would almost be like treating your customers like, I dunno, customers? And it’s not so different with what they once did with Sigmar, not sure if that is still a thing. 

[firestorm40k]

 

Imagine if GW made the pdf free after a short period following the data cards being sold out (and updating said pdf with balance passes). That would almost be like treating your customers like, I dunno, customers? And it’s not so different with what they once did with Sigmar, not sure if that is still a thing. 

To be honest, I think they should make ALL 40K and AoS rules - all faction rules, all detachment rules, all stratagems, all unit profiles - free to Warhammer + subscribers in a digital format.

 

The 3 year edition churn means that Codex publications and the like are useless (sometimes in less than 6 months ) - even if you like the fluff, art and photos, these just tend to get mostly recycled each edition, reducing the incentive to buy the same book each time. It's the part of this hobby that irks me the most, £35-40 books that are quickly out of date, it's a waste of money (not to mention trees for all that paper!). 

 

It's at the point where I refuse to buy these books anymore, I just use the 40k/AoS app or BattleScribe to get my rules when I do play games. Adding all rules digitally to Warhammer + would make the subscription greater value, and more appealing. But maybe that's too sensible for GW..! 

[Lord_Ikka]

Agreed- I would love to have the rules/app bundled into one rather than books. Still make the codices, but focus on having them be really good lore/art books rather than half lore/half rules that are out of date within weeks of printing. I would actually buy the lore/art book of one of the factions I love, but can't stomach buying a codex that I know will be outdated. I'd even be happy to pay something like double the Warhammer+ sub price for it.

[Emperor Ming]

Don't buy the data cards

 

Very simple tip

[Helias_Tancred]

Interesting replies. Informative. Thanks.

 

I get it, in terms of the data cards being possibly outdated within 6 months of release, and then maybe another time or two going forward? The solution to that was mentioned, make free pdf versions of them and update them after each rules update. The customer can download them, print them out, cha-ching, although I still like my sharpies.  Yeah a Warhammer+ sub should give you that, but lets be honest, if that was the case GW would have the sub price be $30/month at the minimum lol.

 

 

Edited August 11 by Helias_Tancred

[Noserenda]

Its not a casual/competitive thing, or even that the cards will start to become inaccurate. Its entirely because they used to make more and then had reams of dead stock once the edition shifted, 3rd parties had them at increasingly steep discounts taking up space but nobody would buy them. 

Its better for any seller to run out of these things up front. 

[ZeroWolf]

 

Its not a casual/competitive thing, or even that the cards will start to become inaccurate. Its entirely because they used to make more and then had reams of dead stock once the edition shifted, 3rd parties had them at increasingly steep discounts taking up space but nobody would buy them. 

Its better for any seller to run out of these things up front. 

This is very much the case where certain sites I look at are still trying to flog the old cards.

[Toxichobbit]

 

Its not a casual/competitive thing, or even that the cards will start to become inaccurate. Its entirely because they used to make more and then had reams of dead stock once the edition shifted, 3rd parties had them at increasingly steep discounts taking up space but nobody would buy them. 

Its better for any seller to run out of these things up front. 

 

Absolutely. Necromunda has the same problem where they will release a set of cards - they sell out once and then usually they're not re-printed. That is not a competitive focussed issue (Necromunda has next to no competitive scene), but an issue where they don't want dead stock.

[Pacific81]

Other companies have the same issue: A Song of Ice and Fire and Fallout, for example, with cards included in unit boxes which then go out of date. However those games mitigate the issue by having an officially supported app which has the most updated rules and can be easily referenced.

 

GW themselves have done it before with AoS (not sure if they still do), so not doing it for 40k, Epic Legions etc is a business choice. I'm not sure if it's just so they can sell the cards, or with effectively operating as a monopoly you just don't need to go that extra mile.

Edited August 15 by Pacific81

[TheArtilleryman]

I love the idea of index cards but I have never thought any. Why? Because if my hobby budget is limited and I already have to fork out for the codex, why would I spend extra on cards that have the same info on? I would be paying for a slight extra convenience but that money would be half another box of minis or some painting supplies.

 

tbh, I rarely buy a codex for myself these days. I played the whole of 8th just using the index books and don’t buy a single codex. In 9th I picked up the tau book for about a fiver on eBay right near the end and it was a bit of a waste of time. What really puts me off these days is how quickly they are invalidated, and the cards would have the same issue.

[Progenitor]

 

Other companies have the same issue: A Song of Ice and Fire and Fallout, for example, with cards included in unit boxes which then go out of date. However those games mitigate the issue by having an officially supported app which has the most updated rules and can be easily referenced.

 

GW themselves have done it before with AoS (not sure if they still do), so not doing it for 40k, Epic Legions etc is a business choice. I'm not sure if it's just so they can sell the cards, or with effectively operating as a monopoly you just don't need to go that extra mile.

One of the biggest upsets GW caused with AoS was when (with the advent of 3rd edition) they pulled all the warscroll cards off the website so they were no longer easily available to see for all players. The physical cards are still a decent purchase because it's very rare that these things get tweaked in the middle of an edition, AoS devs seem rather unwilling to change warscrolls unless something is really oppressive.