Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard

[The Emperors Champion22]

 

the theory is that the nipples were removed for japanese market purposes, I could see that being true.

they were actually removed as part of the armour design. It was a huge flaw in the old armour because the blood angels would just get vicious titty twisters. now they dont have to suffer the wrath of the S8, -4, 2D titty twitsts.

[SalamandersBro]

Nippleless armor? Straight Heresy. 

[StrangerOrders]

Sorry to detract from the discussion but am I the only one that did not expect nipples to be a big part of this thread?

 

Opinions on wings and the stylistic choices for sure, the usual (frankly unhelpful) demeaning of both oldmarine and Primaris design and their fans for sure and of course the debate about lore (the fun part).

 

But seriously, why do people have such strong opinions on the presence or absence of nipples? I do not mean this with an level of disrespect, I am just genuinely curious. Is this a 'sexual characteristics amuse me' deal?

 

Also, I would not try to bring history or the renaissance into this argument to support your argument. Those guys sculpted phalluses and bulges (of the protruding outward and often twisting up variety) onto their armour and that's tame compared to some of sculpting and painting going on. If you want your BAngels to be era appropriate then they would indeed not have sculpted muscles or gobbins, they'd have tiny crushing waists and sculpted junk. Proceed at your peril when trying to weaponize history for your argument.

 

Respectful question to the mods, are supporting images if someone questions this allowed?

Edited August 15 by StrangerOrders

[Scribe]

 

But seriously, why do people have such strong opinions on the presence or absence of nipples? I do not mean this with an level of disrespect, I am just genuinely curious. Is this a 'sexual characteristics amuse me' deal?

 

Memes.

[INKS]

 

But seriously, why do people have such strong opinions on the presence or absence of nipples? I do not mean this with an level of disrespect, I am just genuinely curious. Is this a 'sexual characteristics amuse me' deal?

 

So, serious answer. The introduction of toned armor seems uniquely Greek — and the reason is more aesthetic than functional. There was no structural reinforcement that came from having six-pack outlines or little stylized nipples. So this was the aesthetic choice that was made a long time ago. We still have the 6 pack. But we lost the nipples. Big deal? no not really to most people. But it does leave the beast plates bare and unadorned, kinda plain and boring. Most marines have a chest eagle, wings or something. there is now nothing and it's empty space.

[Alternis]

 

 

Memes.

 

[Antarius]

It's kinda funny that the SG nipples used to be a point of contention because people held it up as evidence that GW design had become too silly and now the discussion has gone full circle and their absence is abandoning all that's holy and grimdark.

Personally, I liked them, so I think it's sad that they're gone but I don't really see it as something that's objectively better/worse one way or the other. I do find the models quite bland which is partly about (what I subjectively consider) lack of adornment for an honour guard squad but also about posing, proportions and lots of other subtle things that probably can't be 100% quantified. Preferences in this regard are obviously subjective, just like all other matters of taste.

It's difficult to argue that they're not objectively less adorned than the earlier version though - or at least it ought to be difficult, but here we are 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Look away Japan!

 

There's plenty more that are recent like these ones but the no nipples for Japan markets is up there with Primaris Space Marines' straight lines is to appeal to Amazon 

 

It's the kind of silly/harmless conspiracy theory I can get behind 

 

Edited August 15 by TrawlingCleaner

[Alternis]

 

It's kinda funny that the SG nipples used to be a point of contention because people held it up as evidence that GW design had become too silly and now the discussion has gone full circle and their absence is abandoning all that's holy and grimdark.

Personally, I liked them, so I think it's sad that they're gone but I don't really see it as something that's objectively better/worse one way or the other. I do find the models quite bland which is partly about (what I subjectively consider) lack of adornment for an honour guard squad but also about posing, proportions and lots of other subtle things that probably can't be 100% quantified. Preferences in this regard are obviously subjective, just like all other matters of taste.

It's difficult to argue that they're not objectively less adorned than the earlier version though - or at least it ought to be difficult, but here we are 

Imho I find that this particular debate isn’t really all that important. 
hell not even the nipples are objectively that big a deal. 
 

I think the loss of the winged shoulder pad and the wings as a whole are a bigger loss for the design, everything else could be objectively looked over but the big glaring issue is that the models were simplified, and half of the BA community hated it, the other half didn’t mind it. 
 

my question ultimately has to be why does the half that like the change, why? 
 

we are painfully aware at this point the reasons why the half that hated it do.

[Valkyrion]

The Bloodwrack Shrine snake lady thing has a boob out complete with nipple, and the drycha wood elf tree lady thing has both boobs out sans nipples, but I'm sure an enterprising painter could daub a bit of pink on there and show everyone 'hur hur look, bewbs'.

 

But this thread is mental and you're all wonderfully bonkers. 

[Redcomet]

After having it percolate some and looking over the images, and seeing what possibilities that are, I have changed my mind.

 

I like them. They are a good canvas to make them what I want them to be like.

 

[Nephaston]

 

my question ultimately has to be why does the half that like the change, why?

Not a BA player, but I'm probably gonna get some for my character shelf.

For me the proportions are somewhat more important than detail. Detail I can add detail and freehand, but I cannot fix massive thigh gaps and skinny legs. Nipples are an easy greenstuff addition (if I decide they need them), and the wings I'm not too fussed over, hell, I might just paint the whole jetpack in a feather fotif. And I will absolutely try and source a feathery shoulder pads, and leave as many pouches off their midriff as possible.

 

But I'm also in nor rush to grab them, since I still got like 6 kits that need paint. If only this heat will die down soon.

Edited August 15 by Nephaston
accidentally a word

[Joe]

To be perfectly honest I doubt the changes (r.e. nipples) were made for mass market x appeasing a third-party. It's more likely that Jes and the design team sat down and simply decided they weren't happy with how they looked on the previous models, or that they weren't worth including. Whilst I may not necessarily agree with that I do trust Jes implicitly when it comes to Space Marines.

[INKS]

I felt that I should add that despite my dislike of how they were upgraded. 

despite a reduction of 5 to 3 models with the same price +

and ALL the other opinions I've shared (and they are just that, my opinions on it)

They are not HORRIBLE to me. I think with some work, some additions and some mixing of the old kits and bits they will look more or less the way I want them to look.

I feel bad for anyone who have Axe guard and won't be able to use them now, or power fist guard (which may or may not be gone) but that doesn't personally impact me.

They are certainly not a FOMO or a priority for me, but they are an eventual buy. - I mean you need them to play competitively 

[Blindhamster]

 

my question ultimately has to be why does the half that like the change, why?

I hated the huge winged shoulderpad (I assume you mean the one that had massive feather design all over it). I found it to be too much of a departure from the marine silhouette. In addition, I found it garish and ugly. I believe blood angels should look fancy and have fine details, but not things that go quite that far. So it was an ugly piece I used on exactly one unit of sanguinary guard and never again.

 

As for the wings themselves. I didn't hate them, but I never particularly liked them either. They just seemed bulky and awkward for a combat unit and very impractical. More importantly, they looked off when beside Dante. The new Sanguinary Guard models are actually much closer to the classic 4th ed version of "Dantes Honour Guard". Which was a converted honour guard squad all in gold with some muscle armour details to emulate Dante/Tycho armour designs.

 

Edited August 15 by Blindhamster

[DemonGSides]

Three exactly the same helmets is a bigger ball kick than the nipples for sure.  Also the helmets looking completely :cuss:ing weird compared to any other Primaris Helmet, let alone historical SG helmets. 

 

The features on the helmets are so weird. They have very thick features which is not at all close to previous depictions of the death masks.

 

Feels like the masks were just co opted from a Sigmar release that didn't pass muster over there. 

[Casual Heresy]

These versions of Sanguinary Guard  do lose something compared to the old ones but on the whole I'm happy. As is usual these will look better from different angles and painted by non-eavy metal painters. I do love the new spears and the banner makes more sense than the old one for a jump unit. 

 

I am a bit disappointed that the Sanguinor is just a straight redo of the original. Its a good model, but I had actually been hoping for a Primarch level dramatic mini-diorama. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Given that the pecs have a more mechanical hexagonical look, the leaving out of the nipples make sense. Would not have looked right as they are. And they're likely this way to fit with the look of other primaris chests

[SvenIronhand]

 

 

 

More importantly, they looked off when beside Dante. The new Sanguinary Guard models are actually much closer to the classic 4th ed version of "Dantes Honour Guard". Which was a converted honour guard squad all in gold with some muscle armour details to emulate Dante/Tycho armour designs.

 

Notably, the concept of an 'honour guard' originated with the Blood Angels 3rd Edition Codex, where they were simply a (red-armored) command squad with jump packs. They even had a jump pack Techmarine! It was only around 4th when they adopted the gold armor and musculata. 

[Blindhamster]

 

Notably, the concept of an 'honour guard' originated with the Blood Angels 3rd Edition Codex, where they were simply a (red-armored) command squad with jump packs. They even had a jump pack Techmarine! It was only around 4th when they adopted the gold armor and musculata. 

I used to have that classic honour guard squad, one of the first sets I bought on release iirc (I say "I", my dad got them for me). Such a cool unit from our past!

[LSM]

 

...The new Sanguinary Guard models are actually much closer to the classic 4th ed version of "Dantes Honour Guard". Which was a converted honour guard squad all in gold with some muscle armour details to emulate Dante/Tycho armour designs.

 

All they need is wings on the chest and to ditch the death mask helmets for some good old MkVII.

[Blindhamster]

I was looking back at the captain (which seemed to be pretty well loved) vs the sanguinary guard (which are not).

 

I cant remember which poster it was that said it, but I think they were on to something:

the smoothing out/flattening of certain details on the sanguinary guard vs the captain is what really lets them down. If you look at areas like near the neck, or above the abs, the captain version has a ridge and it helps sell the armour look much better. The sanguinary guard lack that and it really does soften the armour look significantly.

Add the cables and you give them a slightly pudgy look.

 

the plus side, is I'm pretty sure you could literally cast the captain torso and use that to push mold the sanguinary guard ones after shaving off things like the cables.

 

the masks are also an interesting comparison.

vs

 

the thing that makes the captain and dante work, is the hair/laurel aspect. Now, the classic sanguinary guard didn't have hair either. but the smooth area looks just sort of... off compared to the others. Personally the smoother features look pretty nice to me - its actually more traditionally angelic. Also.. the helmeted versions paint job is just SO MUCH worse than the unhelmeted ones.  (just compare the gold of the captian helm to the gold of the sanguinary guard, its crazy how much more saturated it is, and its not a good look IMO.)

Edited August 15 by Blindhamster

[DemonGSides]

Traditional angels absolutely did not have a nose that looked like they ran directly into a wall. 

Old sang guard had hair on the back of their helmets as well.

 

Also I gotta say, the amount of times it's been brought up that people like this but are also going out of their way to change things about it is pretty funny.  

Edited August 15 by DemonGSides

[Marshal Rohr]

The hair thing is a good catch. The bland helmets with just a Sigmarine face and golden bicorn look incredibly lame. 

[ZeroWolf]

 

Traditional angels absolutely did not have a nose that looked like they ran directly into a wall. 

Old sang guard had hair on the back of their helmets as well.

 

Also I gotta say, the amount of times it's been brought up that people like this but are also going out of their way to change things about it is pretty funny.  

Just because people like things doesn't mean they can't be improved. No kit is perfect. Even the old Sang Guard.