Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Traditional angels absolutely did not have a nose that looked like they ran directly into a wall. 

 

I would say the face looks more like they were going for perhaps different ethnicity, rather than someone running into a wall. And a somewhat different person see nose doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Notice I didn’t mention it as a thing problem.

 

 

Old sang guard had hair on the back of their helmets as well.

for all we know, the new ones do as well. Impossible to tell. The old ones were equally bald on the front though. And didn’t have death masks, they had masks.

 

 

Also I gotta say, the amount of times it's been brought up that people like this but are also going out of their way to change things about it is pretty funny.  

maybe avoid making things personal or taking shots at fellow frater.

 

but also, I convert just about every set, especially units. I’ve also repeatedly said I like them but have things I’d change. Cool thing about opinions is they can be balanced. In fact, a mature approach to most things in life is to consider the positives and negatives in balance.

 

I’ve said from the start that with both these and the captain, I don’t like the upper pectoral area, it’s too blocky. And I’ll change it. I’ve also said I don’t like the cables and I’ll change them. On balance, there’s far more about these models that I like than I don’t, and (as I’ve said multiple times in this thread), I’m confident I have the skills to fix the few things I don’t like. For the record on the helmets, I don’t dislike them, I may look at adding “hair” or something to them, or I may not, will see once I have models in hand..

 

To reiterate, you can like things but still want to make changes you know… especially if you enjoy converting (which I do). I can’t think of many models I’ve thought “wow that’s perfect about”, funnily enough, including the old sanguinary guard 

 

 

The hair thing is a good catch. The bland helmets with just a Sigmarine face and golden bicorn look incredibly lame. 

not sure how hard it would really be to fix either, a thin layer of green stuff or even liquid green stuff, prodded around would likely do the trick.

[Kastor Krieg]

Old SG helmets had the "bicorn" a bit more toward the front, exposing mostly just the forehead. And they had more detail towards there, either from brow shapes of a frown, or blood drops, etc.

The new SG expose straight up half of the head, with no detail or facial shapes covering the bottom, so they look "bald" / "plain" / "off". The captain's head has hair there and that works.

Edited August 15 by Kastor Krieg

[DemonGSides]

 

 

 

I would say the face looks more like they were going for perhaps different ethnicity, rather than someone running into a wall. And a somewhat different person see nose doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Notice I didn’t mention it as a thing problem.

 

for all we know, the new ones do as well. Impossible to tell. The old ones were equally bald on the front though. And didn’t have death masks, they had masks.

 

maybe avoid making things personal or taking shots at fellow frater.

 

but also, I convert just about every set, especially units. I’ve also repeatedly said I like them but have things I’d change. Cool thing about opinions is they can be balanced. In fact, a mature approach to most things in life is to consider the positives and negatives in balance.

 

I’ve said from the start that with both these and the captain, I don’t like the upper pectoral area, it’s too blocky. And I’ll change it. I’ve also said I don’t like the cables and I’ll change them. On balance, there’s far more about these models that I like than I don’t, and (as I’ve said multiple times in this thread), I’m confident I have the skills to fix the few things I don’t like. For the record on the helmets, I don’t dislike them, I may look at adding “hair” or something to them, or I may not, will see once I have models in hand..

 

To reiterate, you can like things but still want to make changes you know… especially if you enjoy converting (which I do). I can’t think of many models I’ve thought “wow that’s perfect about”, funnily enough, including the old sanguinary guard 

 

not sure how hard it would really be to fix either, a thin layer of green stuff or even liquid green stuff, prodded around would likely do the trick.

 

I didn't mention anyone's name nor did I insult anyone; seems like both would be required for a personal insult.  Also, your turning into Lensoven with the little snarks; not a good look. Ive enjoyed our debates so far but if you want to get into slinging that's fine, I'm not interested in that. 

 

 

You can kinda see the back of the helmet in the bottom left pic of the Sang Guard on the community site, and can blatantly see it in the video.  This is also part of the reason having these discussions has gotten tough.

 

 

Just a regular helmet on the backside of the new "Death masks".

 

I just think "I have to change more than 50% of this model; this makes it a good model kit." Is a bad standard to be happy with. I just find it funny that some people will go to bat for these while also saying how much they are gonna change em. Just buy JAI, and do the changes on those. Would save a lot of time and headache probably.

Edited August 15 by DemonGSides

[Blindhamster]

 

And didn’t have death masks, they had masks

Just for clarity why I say this.

 

a death mask is a literal mold of someone’s face (usually just the front). Typically made after someone has died. Ergo, it should be the same size/scale as a head. This is something I like about the new ones, the details are smaller, relatively and it looks like something that had been molded to a helmet, rather than something larger than a face that can fit a head inside. To me it’s therefore a more accurate depiction of a death mask, where the old ones remind me more of a Roman gladiator mask - still cool, but not the same thing. It is arguably an issue with Dante’s though, in that in theory as sanguinius’ death mask, it should be roughly on par, size wise with the front of the plastic guilliman face. Which I don’t believe it comes close to.

[FarFromSam]

I'm most concerned about the move from 10 to 6.  It follows the  trend set by the smaller board size,  and larger vehicles that the game is moving towards a skirmish setting rather than a small battle.  There is a small, but important difference between the two.  There are a plenty of skirmish alternatives out there, and it's concerning to see gw head that direction. 

 

 

[Blindhamster]

 

I just find it funny that some people will go to bat for these while also saying how much they are gonna change em. Just buy JAI, and do the changes on those. Would save a lot of time and headache probably

Literally the only thing I know I’ll change is the front torso plate (and even then, not the abs part). How on earth would converting jump intercessors be easier. That’s legitimate hyperbole.

 

the arms are very nice, I like the legs, I love the weapons, I like the heads (love the bare heads which I’m more likely to use anyway because I love bare heads on blood angels), I also like the jump packs.

 

if I were converting JAI, I’d need to do the entire torso, replace the lower greaves, completely sculpt fresh arms, source the weapons, change the design for the jump pack (sanguinary guard have blood drops around the thruster and the wing grav flaps).

 

easier to convert JAI… SMH

 

You can kinda see the back of the helmet in the bottom left pic of the Sang Guard on the community site, and can blatantly see it in the video.  This is also part of the reason having these discussions has gotten tough.

Good catch on that though, I stand corrected. Though again considering my thoughts on death masks above, you’ll understand that it doesn’t bother me for the back to be a proper helmet

[DemonGSides]

 

Just for clarity why I say this.

 

a death mask is a literal mold of someone’s face (usually just the front). Typically made after someone has died. Ergo, it should be the same size/scale as a head. This is something I like about the new ones, the details are smaller, relatively and it looks like something that had been molded to a helmet, rather than something larger than a face that can fit a head inside. To me it’s therefore a more accurate depiction of a death mask, where the old ones remind me more of a Roman gladiator mask - still cool, but not the same thing. It is arguably an issue with Dante’s though, in that in theory as sanguinius’ death mask, it should be roughly on par, size wise with the front of the plastic guilliman face. Which I don’t believe it comes close to.

 

Dante's helmet isn't literally Sanguinius's helmet.

 

His helmets features are modelled after Sanguinius's. It wasn't worn by Sanguinius; it holds rubies of his unadulterated blood but it was not his personal helm.

[DemonGSides]

Additionally, death masks are literally castings of people's faces.

 

No one's face in the history of blood angels heads look ANYTHING like the Carthalos look alikes of the new SG. It's so off base from anything remotely BA.

 

Add on that all three helmets are exactly the same, while not looking anything like any depiction of Sanguinius or any other Blood Angels (and we know SM tend to adopt features of their parents, hence why there's so many blondes in the BA; it's not a guarantee that you'll be a carbon copy, but one would think the death masks would look at least A LITTLE like other BA that we have art of.)

Edited August 15 by DemonGSides

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Dante's helmet isn't literally Sanguinius's helmet.

 

His helmets features are modelled after Sanguinius's. It wasn't worn by Sanguinius; it holds rubies of his unadulterated blood but it was not his personal helm.

Its the death mask of sanguinius. for it to be that, its a casting of sanguinius face. I never said it was Sanguinius' helmet. What I was saying, is Sanguinius has a larger head than an astartes, meaning his death mask would probably cover slightly more of the helmet that the mask of a brother would.

 

 

 

Additionally, death masks are literally castings of people's faces.

I know, I had stated that a few posts up, also noting usually a death mask is actually just the front of someones face.

 

 

No one's face in the history of blood angels heads look ANYTHING like the Carthalos look alikes of the new SG. It's so off base from anything remotely BA.

 

Add on that all three helmets are exactly the same, while not looking anything like any depiction of Sanguinius or any other Blood Angels (and we know SM tend to adopt features of their parents, hence why there's so many blondes in the BA; it's not a guarantee that you'll be a carbon copy, but one would think the death masks would look at least A LITTLE like other BA that we have art of.)

 

Had to google who Carthalos was haha. I don't really follow AoS.

You're absolutely right that blood angels all tend to look like Sanguinius, its noted that peoples original ethnicities still shine through though, but there's just something about everyones features that still looks like Sanguinius. There's quite a bit about it in "Devastation of Baal".

I totally agree, both old and new sanguinary guard should really have had each death mask features be unique (I dont mean the bling on the top, i mean the actual facial features). Because they're death masks. Sadly neither version has done a good job of that, and overall I still prefer the features of the new ones PERSONALLY. You're totally allowed to not. But there's very little point arguing on it as we wont change our opinions (something I've learned over this release, is you and I have hugely different views (or at least interpretations) of what and who blood angels are, and thats totally fine - no, i don't want or like "boring" blood angels before that aspertion is cast, but I do prefer more subtle and reserved beauty as that fits with a more noble/regal appearance for me).

Edited August 15 by Blindhamster

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

No one's face in the history of blood angels heads look ANYTHING like the Carthalos look alikes of the new SG. It's so off base from anything remotely BA.

 

This is such a cool take. You love to see it

[The Lost Son]

I think the sanguinary guard look good, not necessarily as sanguinary guard. To clarify they'd make sweet honour guard - granted they technically haven't existed for a few editions but what does it matter rename them use the same rules, paint them a mix of red/gold/marble etc at least it would explain every army having them. And in a silver linings view GW might(eventually)listen to or hear of the general disconnect between their vision and customers expectations and release a revised version closer to what most people want sanguinary guard to be (previous iteration/artwork and background since their Inception) next edition and bring back a generic flying command squad to utilise these sculpts with refreshed packaging 

[DemonGSides]

 

do prefer more subtle and reserved beauty as that fits with a more noble/regal appearance for me

 

And this is the issue, right?  Because you can have a reserved beauty with some slight alterations to regular space Marines.  It didn't require the loss of flavor, and we could  both be happy.

 

Those of us who want the bling just got cast aside. That's what people are upset about.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

And this is the issue, right?  Because you can have a reserved beauty with some slight alterations to regular space Marines.  It didn't require the loss of flavor, and we could  both be happy.

 

Those of us who want the bling just got cast aside. That's what people are upset about.

no.

 

because the key thing for blood angels artificer armour is the muscled look, its a large part of the flavour of blood angels characters and elites. That doesnt exist with "slight alternations to regular marines".

 

these guys have armour not disimilar to tycho, which is for me (as an old timer) very cool.

 

I'd not have been unhappy with a couple of greave variants, and some "company" shoulder variants (i.e. not the chapter one, but the other side having some more interesting sculpts) and some helmet variants. I've no idea if that would have been enough for you though.

[Scribe]

 

 

And this is the issue, right?  Because you can have a reserved beauty with some slight alterations to regular space Marines.  It didn't require the loss of flavor, and we could  both be happy.

 

Those of us who want the bling just got cast aside. That's what people are upset about.

 

Some of this is natural in terms of development, as the Primaris change shifted the core design so far away from what was before. It wasnt until the Black Templar reboot we got even close to scratching the look of traditional 40K again.

[DemonGSides]

 

no.

 

because the key thing for blood angels artificer armour is the muscled look, its a large part of the flavour of blood angels characters and elites. That doesnt exist with "slight alternations to regular marines".

 

these guys have armour not disimilar to tycho, which is for me (as an old timer) very cool.

 

I'd not have been unhappy with a couple of greave variants, and some "company" shoulder variants (i.e. not the chapter one, but the other side having some more interesting sculpts) and some helmet variants. I've no idea if that would have been enough for you though.

 

Well then don't look at the new DC kit. It's gonna be just standard intercessors with a keychain. Kinda surprised you enjoy them so much.

 

Their armor isn't any bit close to Tycho's. Go check your 9th ed codex. They don't look like our dead boy in the slightest besides also having abs and being "gold".

 

Like, they look NOTHING like the art of Tycho;

 

Your snark is noted. 

 

Edited August 15 by DemonGSides

[templargdt]

 

 

 

 

I like the current models immeasurably more.  This is awful.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I think the sanguinary guard look good, not necessarily as sanguinary guard. To clarify they'd make sweet honour guard - granted they technically haven't existed for a few editions but what does it matter rename them use the same rules, paint them a mix of red/gold/marble etc at least it would explain every army having them. And in a silver linings view GW might(eventually)listen to or hear of the general disconnect between their vision and customers expectations and release a revised version closer to what most people want sanguinary guard to be (previous iteration/artwork and background since their Inception) next edition and bring back a generic flying command squad to utilise these sculpts with refreshed packaging 

If you want GW to do what you want you need to vote with your wallet.

 

if people who don’t like these models don’t like them as SG buy them and call them ‘generic honor guard’ GW has no motivation to change anything. Don’t buy the kit so they sell poorly and there’s a chance they make changes.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Some of this is natural in terms of development, as the Primaris change shifted the core design so far away from what was before. It wasnt until the Black Templar reboot we got even close to scratching the look of traditional 40K again.

 

Yeah, the core sure was shifted oh so very very very far away totally unrecognizable.

[Scribe]

 

 

Yeah, the core sure was shifted oh so very very very far away totally unrecognizable.

 

Compare the BA tactical to the basic primaris, and yes there was a shift, it wasn't until BT and I guess Blade Guard or whatever that the "gothic" returned.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Compare the BA tactical to the basic primaris, and yes there was a shift, it wasn't until BT and I guess Blade Guard or whatever that the "gothic" returned.

No more shift than comparing them to regular tactical marines.

[Scribe]

 

No more shift than comparing them to regular tactical marines.

 

BA Tac's had bespoke elements to reflect the 'bling' of the BA. Primaris pushed that Tacti-cool look.

 

BT/Blade Guard returned us to the proper 40K Gothic vibe.

 

Its not a discussion, its fact.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Compare the BA tactical to the basic primaris, and yes there was a shift, it wasn't until BT and I guess Blade Guard or whatever that the "gothic" returned.

Because the intercessors were not an update to BA tactical, it was an update to the generic/UM one. People could and did use that one to make BA tacticals too.

 

But pointing out that the generic intercessor kit doesn't make as flavorful BA specific tacticals either is not as much of a point as you'd like it to be.

 

You could argue there's more of a point comparing the bespoke BA tactical kit, to the BA intercessor kit that was sold a while back... though that still wasn't entirely an equivalent comparison either.

 

You can even argue that BA update in itself has not preserved all the flair that was present before. That I'd fully cede.

 

But you didn't, you said it was an inherent problem with primaris because "the core was shifted so far away" which is a tired old argument im sick of seeing.

[Scribe]

 

But you didn't, you said it was an inherent problem with primaris because "the core was shifted so far away" which is a tired old argument im sick of seeing.

 

Unfortunate, since it will never go away and as this forum shows very small bits of history will be latched on to for a very long time.

[DemonGSides]

 

 

BA Tac's had bespoke elements to reflect the 'bling' of the BA. Primaris pushed that Tacti-cool look.

 

BT/Blade Guard returned us to the proper 40K Gothic vibe.

 

Its not a discussion, its fact.

 

God speed with your attempt at this same fight.

[Scribe]

 

 

God speed with your attempt at this same fight.

 

There's no fight. It is what it is.

 

Even the 'tactical' box demonstrates the difference if people are looking.

 

Banners, different marks of armour, vs a streamlined, (CAD) assembly line of 'tacti-cool' armour.

 

They are not the same. 40K has lost, and continues to lose, parts of its soul over the last decade or whatever, and thats just how it is.

 

Thank god for the BT release showing us what 40K could be again.