Karhedron Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 weapons seem.. fine? Not sure if actually good or not compared to current ones? Overall the damage output of the unit feels like it’ll be lower right? The Glaives get +1S and -1AP improvements over their current incarnations which should compensate for the loss of Power Fists. Of course the 6-man squad limit means that the total number of attacks goes down from 40 to 24 per squad (or from 50 to 30 in LAG). So overall durability is similar to currently while offensive goes down as there are fewer models with the same number of attacks. Which brings us to the issue of price. Currently SG are 155/310 points. Based on what we have seen, the 3/6 squad would need to be 120/240 max to be viable. For comparison, BGVs are now similar and are 90/180 but the SG can fly, get +1S, +1 Save and -1AP compared to BGVs. DemonGSides, HolyPestilience and Aarik 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonGSides Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Yeah it's a bummer all around. I wish the profiles on the spears and swords were flipped, and the spear kept lance. That'd feel like a suitable elite unit that sometimes is a lil worse (if they don't get the charge) while also still feeling like the old unit, at least a little. Where it is, I'm hoping it comes with additional points drops to incentivize using 6, since otherwise, despite DC also losing a lot of power, I'd still probably be more likely to lean that way for BA specific units (Probably still try to make Vanguard Vets work even without JPSangPriest). I've never been SG heavy in my BA lists anyways, as I like DC so much more as a theme to build around, but it still sucks to lose out on power in EVERY department. Gotta hope for Mephiston and Sanguinor both having glow ups, I guess? Sanguinor was alright before, hopefully he also doesn't take too hard a hit, considering his base is definitely going way up in size (meaning harder to sneak in certain DS situations). Cenobite Terminator 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 sons of Sanguinius is now renamed to Liberator Assault Group and the Jump Infantry based detachment is Angelic Host They're Liberating the enemy of their blood. Xenith, LSM and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 sons of Sanguinius is now renamed to Liberator Assault Group and the Jump Infantry based detachment is Angelic Host So that is 2 of the 3 archetypes we expected to see. I wonder if we will get the expected DC-themed Detachment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonGSides Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 That Strat doesn't work the way they want it to. Classic GW rules team quality I straight ignored the shooting addition... like, uh, GW what the hell is the point? Unless the SG have a "Shoot whenever you feel instead of your shooting phase" type rule which is A) a wild rule and B) not anything I'd ever expect. The charge part works, but the shooting part is literally useless. Hilarious. I did notice that the top pic on the article had 9 Sanguinary Guard. I know, it's a promo shot, but still... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalt Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 the new Liberator Assault Group Detachment Apparently this will also include an alternative loadout for Sanguinary Guard, exclusive leaked pic here: LSM, Kallas, DemonGSides and 13 others 2 1 13 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alternis Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I straight ignored the shooting addition... like, uh, GW what the hell is the point? Unless the SG have a "Shoot whenever you feel instead of your shooting phase" type rule which is A) a wild rule and B) not anything I'd ever expect. The charge part works, but the shooting part is literally useless. Hilarious. I did notice that the top pic on the article had 9 Sanguinary Guard. I know, it's a promo shot, but still... It’s a Typo, should say Shooting phase, not charge phase on ‘when’ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) I straight ignored the shooting addition... like, uh, GW what the hell is the point? Unless the SG have a "Shoot whenever you feel instead of your shooting phase" type rule which is A) a wild rule and B) not anything I'd ever expect. The charge part works, but the shooting part is literally useless. Hilarious. I did notice that the top pic on the article had 9 Sanguinary Guard. I know, it's a promo shot, but still... Maybe a special new rule for Dante? Or two different units... Still, even with the upgrades, I still prefer the old one Edited August 21 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I spy a slightly cooler posed one: VanDutch, HolyPestilience, skylerboodie and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 It’s a Typo, should say Shooting phase, not charge phase on ‘when’ That's a bit more than a typo, don't you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 On an angle like that looks great Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) I will say surrounding Dante with some fancy Golden Lads like so is doing them some small favours. Maybe just doing Dante some favours. But Primaris proportions will always be effing cool. Edited August 19 by Wispy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Sanguinary Guard seem really powerful and durable for such a fast moving unit. I hope they are costed appropriately. Great rules and profiles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Well. 10 assault Intercessors and a captain is 250 points. id go on a lim and say 6 sanguinary guard is going to be another 250 points VanDutch, Karhedron and Kryczek 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 That Strat doesn't work the way they want it to. Classic GW rules team quality Thats what I was just coming here to say. They can't even get rules that they choose for a preview right. The Stratagem is used in the charge phase, but it grants fall back or advance and shoot... which was the previous phase. I'd have to go do the actual math, but my gut tells me the spears probably aren't good? +1 to wound on the charge, but 1 less attack and ap? Karhedron, DemonGSides and ThaneOfTas 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) I'd have to go do the actual math, but my gut tells me the spears probably aren't good? +1 to wound on the charge, but 1 less attack and ap? Spears come out ahead against high toughness targets, with an Invuln, on the charge. That is pretty situational and I think the Glaives are better 90% of the time. The only reason I can see to take a Spear is if the Banner bonus is good as the Banner seems to require a spear. Edited August 19 by Karhedron Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I didn't do the napkin math to account for invulns, and the only time the spears win is hitting stuff they would normally wound on 6s. Which neither weapon will actually do much at all, the spears will do less than a single wound on average. Making up for losing 25% output off the bat is really hard to justify, the loss of AP is just insult to injury. (Assuming no Detachment bonus or strat) More quick napkin math, T higher than 6 but lower than 12 and a 4++, they are almost dead even, which is basically best possible use-case for the spears. If you need lance to not wound on 6s, you shouldn't be charging that, and if the target is T6 or below you don't need Lance, and the extra attack matters a lot more. Losing an attack but keeping AP-3 would have made the spears niche into high T targets, or losing just an AP would probably make them the go-to choice, but losing both just makes them bad. StrangerOrders, Karhedron and LSM 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6057967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Spears definitely do not have much going for them. But Deathwing Knights got their swords buffed after 3 months when the designers realised how bad they were so I would not rule out seeing the Spears get buffed too. DemonGSides and Aarik 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 No 2 handed pose on the swords killed my plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alternis Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Maybe a special new rule gor Dante? Or two different units... Still, even with the upgrades, I still prefer the old one Dante’s unit ability got a slight buff. With SG + Death from the Skies, you are now 12” Movement > D6+1” Advance > Shoot > 2D6+1” Charge > Remove Dish from Blender, and serve to perfection. Cenobite Terminator 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alternis Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Casual Heresy, skylerboodie, The_Oni_of_Hindsight and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I’ll be taking spears regardless just because they’re cooler than swords. CL_Mission, Gamiel, danodan123 and 3 others 4 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alternis Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I’ll be taking spears regardless just because they’re cooler than swords. It’s a choice. Lance or more AP and attacks. Might be conducive to run 2 units, one with swords to handle infantry, and another with spears to handle the elites, multiwound units, monsters and light vehicles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I’ll be taking spears regardless just because they’re cooler than swords. I mean that's fine, they aren't *that* much worse, its just that it kind of sucks that the developers couldn't do basic math for their game and make them roughly equivalent. Bash, Inquisitor_Lensoven, Aarik and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephaston Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I mean that's fine, they aren't *that* much worse, its just that it kind of sucks that the developers couldn't do basic math for their game and make them roughly equivalent. "Mafffs?! In my beer and pretzels game?! Just roll the damn dice!" -Some rules-writer that may or may not exist Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/383462-sanguinor-and-sanguinary-guard/page/28/#findComment-6058160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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