Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard

[Cenobite Terminator]

SG with a solid invulnerable save, the 2+ armor save and 3W are going to be even more resilient now (obviously). I was hoping the Sanguinor was going to be more on the level of Primarch but he’s still rock solid. Mephiston got a super glow up - really happy to see the return of his transfixing gaze. He took out a whole flank of CSM in a tabletop tactics batrep.

[Wispy]

i am glad sanguinor isn't a primarch stand in. Primarchs should just be Primarchs. 

[Blindhamster]

 

I'm not interested in BA at all so feel free to ignore my opinion, but with the SG it's glaringly obvious GW designs one marine, and then reposes it a few times to make a squad. Like aside from the weapons, pouches on the belt of one guy, and purity seals you used to add yourself anyway, the entire squad is exactly the same unless you use bare heads or kitbash.

 

It strikes me as incredibly lazy sculpting. I miss the days when you could make unique marines straight from the box - it made them feel like "your" marines, and better represented the lore of them each being an individual with personalised armour. 

 

interestingly i have a different view.

 

power armour is mass produced, the base model for a given classification of power armour should be identical. That said I do think that they could easily have done some alternative greaves and shoulders and heads to create some of that individuality for very little effort.

[KaosRaptor]

 

 

interestingly i have a different view.

 

power armour is mass produced, the base model for a given classification of power armour should be identical. That said I do think that they could easily have done some alternative greaves and shoulders and heads to create some of that individuality for very little effort.

 

Totally valid, opinions are opinions. Back when I first started in the hobby (in 4th edition) I remember reading Black Library books that mentioned things like armour being inscribed with the names of previous wearers, or with their heroic deeds. Each suit from tactical marines to chapter honor guard were revered relics, and that's influenced my preference I think.

 

Armour being massed produced strikes me as something more from the Horus Heresy rather than 40k. But I haven't read much new 40k fiction so maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like a sad change if that is the case.

[HeadlessCross]

 

I'm not interested in BA at all so feel free to ignore my opinion, but with the SG it's glaringly obvious GW designs one marine, and then reposes it a few times to make a squad. Like aside from the weapons, pouches on the belt of one guy, and purity seals you used to add yourself anyway, the entire squad is exactly the same unless you use bare heads or kitbash.

 

It strikes me as incredibly lazy sculpting. I miss the days when you could make unique marines straight from the box - it made them feel like "your" marines, and better represented the lore of them each being an individual with personalised armour. 

GW also does almost nothing interesting with their poses. Your post is exactly what I saw when Intercessors came out and those people never bothered to look at the sprue. 

 

Have we even seen the sprues for the new Sanguinary Guard yet?

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Totally valid, opinions are opinions. Back when I first started in the hobby (in 4th edition) I remember reading Black Library books that mentioned things like armour being inscribed with the names of previous wearers, or with their heroic deeds. Each suit from tactical marines to chapter honor guard were revered relics, and that's influenced my preference I think.

 

Armour being massed produced strikes me as something more from the Horus Heresy rather than 40k. But I haven't read much new 40k fiction so maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like a sad change if that is the case.

Its a downside to them mkX, they arent relics anymore. Some suits have parts of relic suits, but mkX itself is mass produced and appears to be both more modular and easier to make.

It does mean that vambrace from a suit of heresy mk4 one marine has is more important/special though.

[Nephaston]

 

Armour being massed produced strikes me as something more from the Horus Heresy rather than 40k. But I haven't read much new 40k fiction so maybe I'm wrong. Just seems like a sad change if that is the case.

There is as much power armour as the plot demands.

 

A good chunk of the fresh marine fiction has a bigger focus on the generational divide and greyshields trying to integrate, which differs depending on the chapter they go to. But in the grand scheme of thing it is still the good ol' bolter power fantasy :cuss:, marine autism trying to interact with other factions, descriptions of transhuman dread, with sprinkles of imperial politics and a dash good ol' grim darkness. I can recommend any of the Dawn of Fire books except Wolftime.

[Gamiel]

 

I can recommend any of the Dawn of Fire books except Wolftime.

Since I liked Wolftime is it best to say that recommendations are good but it is always best to make your own opinion by reading the books yourself. 

[Rhavien]

Whilst I also feel that we lost individuality and character lacking unique bits to personalize Marines, it makes sense from a POV in universe. Cawl delivers anything to chapters in a mass production style. Also it's still early since it has started, so there isn't much time for armor to become individualized again. You get the pendants and pouches, but not much in terms of actual armor. As long as there is a steady supply with new suits of power armor there isn't even the need to fix up broken stuff. You'll just replace it with something new. Also AFAIK Primaris Marines are switching their armor as needed for their current battle role. Phobos, Tactics, Gravis. Those new warriors won't be attached to their gear anymore. 

Fast forward to the new sanguinary guard. They were basically wiped out while the events of devastation of baal occurred. Now they have those factory fresh new suits of artificer armor and it starts again. After some generations passing down their suits they will be ornate and individual again, but for now they are fresh out of the box. 

 

Of course this all is a in universe justification why GW can be lazy and just press copy and paste. I'd hoped that the upgrade sprue would cover some ground for individualizing our toys, but there isn't much in terms of armor going on. 

[Alternis]

 

i am glad sanguinor isn't a primarch stand in. Primarchs should just be Primarchs. 

This pleased me a fair bit. 
 

GW leaving out big Primarch centerpiece slot open for our actual Primarch

[ZeroWolf]

 

This pleased me a fair bit. 
 

GW leaving out big Primarch centerpiece slot open for our actual Primarch

As long as you're willing to wait for him. There's a list of Primarchs to return first before they start raising the truly dead. 

[Blindhamster]

 

As long as you're willing to wait for him. There's a list of Primarchs to return first before they start raising the truly dead. 

im confident that if we really get into the more narrow list of primarchs, sanguinius will come before quite a few of the others.

 

why?

 

sanguinius is one of he most popular

sanguinius is attached to a popular faction

 

i legitimately think we are more likely to get Sanguinius in 40K thank someone like the khan or corax or a lot of the chaos primarchs. For good or ill.

[KaosRaptor]

 

Whilst I also feel that we lost individuality and character lacking unique bits to personalize Marines, it makes sense from a POV in universe. Cawl delivers anything to chapters in a mass production style. 

Yeah see, this is is gross to me. Leave mass-producing things to the Astra Militarum. Marines get the best-of-the-best which just...isn't something that can be produced in huge quantities, because repeating production processes on that kind of scale introduces flaws. GW's trying to have its cake and eat it too, and is just sucking the flavour out of the faction. Again, just my opinion, but when the individuals in a squad of guardsmen (y'know, something that can be part of a horde faction) each have more character than marines, something's gone very wrong.

 

Thankfully my main army is CSM and I can still have unique marines there (for now anyway).

 

I know none of this is new or anything but the SG really just highlight this issue for me, seeing as they're the Blood Angels elite. Nothing against those who like them, more power to you! But for me it leaves me very concerned for the future of marines. If I wanted clone troopers I'd go to star wars.

 

 

[lansalt]

Armour being mass produced or not only matters for rank and file troops like intercessors/tacticals. Marines love bling a lot, and cannot help themselves about adding more stuff to their suits over the years. Vets like sternguards or super elite bodyguards like the UM Victrix or SG should definitely look pimped out with the aesthetics of their Chapter.  Even the Raven Guard does it.

That's just one of the reasons the new SG minis are terrible.

[Blindhamster]

 

Marines get the best-of-the-best which just...isn't something that can be produced in huge quantities, because repeating production processes on that kind of scale introduces flaws. GW's trying to have its cake and eat it too, and is just sucking the flavour out of the faction.

 

Considering the sheer quantity of armour created for the great crusade, sorry but this isn't an opinion thing, you're just straight up wrong. Power armour is more than capable of being mass produced, all it needs is proficient forgeworlds, hell, most space marines dont make their armour better with the gubbins they add over time, just more personalised. The quality of armour is primarily determined by the billions of indentured slaves that make up forgeworlds.

[Orange Knight]

Power armour is mass produced by the Imperium, currently. 

Of course they aren't making as much of it as other war provisions and vehicles, but it isn't rare archeotech that can't be replaced.

 

We also need to acknowledge that the Primaris are better supplied than Marines were prior to the Era-Indomitus, and even chapters on the other side of the rift are sent all the necessary schematics to produce the weapons and armour they need, most likely with the assistance of nearby Forgeworlds, as is common practice.

 

The MkX Tacticus suit is the finest Astartes power armour ever utilised by Marines, and artifice crafted suits of this type will likely be superior still - which is what I imagine the Sanguinary Guard are wearing.

 

On the visual side I do acknowledge that in general the various suits are more uniform, although that doesn't mean they aren't elaborate. Good examples of ornate MkX suits can be seen on the Bladeguard and Sternguard. 

I think the general look is entirely intentional. GW are diversifying the loyalist and traitor Astartes from each other. The loyalists are well supplied with modern, high-tech weapons and gear, whilst the traitors are using baroque and battered armour that has been patched up over the millenia and wield corrupted weapons only kept functional by the influence of the warp.

 

They look far more distinctive from each other when the armies are compared now.

 

[Wormwoods]

 

GW are diversifying the loyalist and traitor Astartes from each other.

They're also, for better and worse, trying to differentiate 30K and 40K. If they ever fully cut the remaining firstborn kits (tacticals, devastators, etc) without making them taller mixed units like the new Sternguard it'll be about when they release a MK7 Horus Heresy kit. 

[01RTB01]

 

It is a shame really. The old Blood Angels CP was one of the best ones available in terms of both contents and value. 
 

My personal opinion is I think it’s more about GW’s new tactic of making sure there is always something “missing” from a box. The CP can’t have everything you need or you might not buy something else. 

There's a lot missing in the new CP boxes (less minis, less variety...) , shrinkflation is rife!

 

I pity the world eaters and blood Angels players that decide to have a CP game and it lasts 5 minutes. They could swap sides I guess, play it again and have it feel pretty much identical! Maybe swap out the world eaters for the latest ork CP box for some variety in play! Oh wait a minute... (I'd insert the "corporate wants you to tell the difference meme but I've had too little sleep).

[KaosRaptor]

 

 

Considering the sheer quantity of armour created for the great crusade, sorry but this isn't an opinion thing, you're just straight up wrong. Power armour is more than capable of being mass produced, all it needs is proficient forgeworlds, hell, most space marines dont make their armour better with the gubbins they add over time, just more personalised. The quality of armour is primarily determined by the billions of indentured slaves that make up forgeworlds.

Calm, friend. Fair points about the Heresy, I meant in a real world sense mass production can often result in a decrease in quality, but GW can handwave that away.

 

I never claimed personalization improved the effectiveness of the armour. But even Mk VII armour had variations to it, look at the tactical squad kit. Different piping on the face, studs or skulls on the brow, chest plates with different ornamentation. Now all you get is copy and paste marines.

 

I'm lamenting the lack of variation we get in model kits now, that is all. It can be justified in lore a million different ways, however GW wants to, and you can argue we get better poses in exchange (though that is also very subjective, I would say poses in the new jump pack Intercessors are mostly worse than the old assault squad for example). But the variation in marine armour has decreased, that can't be argued, and I think that's a rather major downside.

[Orange Knight]

They are more uniform, but at least they are all posed much more naturally and look better.

[ThaneOfTas]

 

They are more uniform, but at least they are all posed much more naturally and look better.

Posing is incredibly subjective, the Jump intercessors and new Sang Guard both look to have incredibly awkward poses as far as I'm concerned. And looking better is again ridiculously subjective.

[lansalt]

I don't think poses are actually something subjective. A pose may be static or dynamic, and maybe feel artificial (like the infamous hero landing pose)
But the new SG, like many other recent GW minis have just awkward poses. Neither natural nor stylistic.

The sculptors seem to aim for a dynamic pose but end up with something that makes the subject character look clumsy or trigger the uncanny valley effect (like the UM Titus mini)

[Robbienw]

Only decently posed recent jump pack equipped marines are the 30k assault squad and Lemartes, imo.

 

 

 

Edited August 25 by Robbienw

[lansalt]

The new Lemartes pose is debatable, but the mini is ruined by his skull helmet having a gag ball...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Yeah see, this is is gross to me. Leave mass-producing things to the Astra Militarum. Marines get the best-of-the-best which just...isn't something that can be produced in huge quantities, because repeating production processes on that kind of scale introduces flaws. GW's trying to have its cake and eat it too, and is just sucking the flavour out of the faction. Again, just my opinion, but when the individuals in a squad of guardsmen (y'know, something that can be part of a horde faction) each have more character than marines, something's gone very wrong.

 

Thankfully my main army is CSM and I can still have unique marines there (for now anyway).

 

I know none of this is new or anything but the SG really just highlight this issue for me, seeing as they're the Blood Angels elite. Nothing against those who like them, more power to you! But for me it leaves me very concerned for the future of marines. If I wanted clone troopers I'd go to star wars.

 

 

….there’s different levels of mass produced…guardsmen are mass produced, but so are primaris, just not in the same mass.

 

lamborghini mass produce cars, just not on the same scale of mass as ford or dodge.

lamborghini could increase the mass at which they produce their vehicles, without appreciable loss of quality.

 

i think you’re just looking at it more from the ford or dodge definition of mass produced rather than the Lamborghini definition.