Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard

[Karhedron]

 

as for devaluing his sacrifice. It was already devalued, Abnett absolutely murdered our boy and any relevance or significance to the story he once had.

 

I disagree. Sanguinius explains in TEATD that he must face Horus before the Emperor because of his visions. If Sanguinius' visions are true and he fails to get to Horus first, it means that the Emperor is already dead. Even if he failed to materially affect the outcome of the duel, he sacrificed himself to prophecy simply so that the Emperor would have a chance to survive. If Sanguinius had stayed on Terra as the Emperor wished,  then Horus would have killed the Emperor and then Sanguinius.

 

Sanguinius knew that he was dead either way. But facing Horus first at least meant the Emperor had a chance. 

[phandaal]

 

What effect does it undo?

the BR will likely still exist.

 

holy beings sacrificing themselves just to come back later is a well established trope, and is the core feature of the world’s largest religion, with the promise that said holy being will come back yet again some day…so yeah, there’s not really any good argument against bringing him back except “I don’t like it, and don’t want it to happen.”

Which isn’t a very good argument against it.

 

Sure, the argument you made up does suck, which is a totally new and original way to discuss things with people on the Internet BTW.

 

Since we are off topic now, I would just suggest to do a search on this thread or any other one where this subject gets brought up to see what people are actually saying.

[jaxom]

On topic: how long is it usually between prerelease army box and the codex actually being released? Presumably the CP with SG will drop at the same time.

[Blindhamster]

a few weeks, my guess is we'll see pre order for the other stuff 2nd week of september

 

[Scribe]

 

What effect does it undo?

the BR will likely still exist.

 

holy beings sacrificing themselves just to come back later is a well established trope, and is the core feature of the world’s largest religion, with the promise that said holy being will come back yet again some day…so yeah, there’s not really any good argument against bringing him back except “I don’t like it, and don’t want it to happen.”

Which isn’t a very good argument against it.

 

Holy Emperor you are on a roll with your takes. :D

[ZeroWolf]

 

a few weeks, my guess is we'll see pre order for the other stuff 2nd week of september

 

I'm expecting end of September/beginning of October. A lot of it might depend on what the road map has in store for Autumn

[Rhavien]

 

Because Occam's razor would have it that there isn't.

Out of interest, because I haven't read the book yet. What is the obvious meaning behind the things shown to Johnson? 

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

The psychic wave doesn’t become undone becomes he comes back to life.

its magic warp PTSD.

 

there’s literally no logical way to explain how him coming back would some how undo the psychic trauma from his death.

Why even bother replying to me if you're just gonna ignore everything I say and tunnel vision on the one point I ceded?

 

 

This is NOW WAY OFF TOPIC. Bring it back in please. Feel free to start another topic all about the resurrection of the primarch. 

Sanguinor is .... tangentally adjacent to possible ressurection of the primarch. Manybe? No?

[Alternis]

 

On topic: how long is it usually between prerelease army box and the codex actually being released? Presumably the CP with SG will drop at the same time.

Usually 6-8 weeks from battleforce release, but don’t quote this it’s not gospel just a rough estimate

 

Out of interest, because I haven't read the book yet. What is the obvious meaning behind the things shown to Johnson? 

This is part of my reasoning. 
 

if we go with what the Nay sayers are saying there is NO meaning, which makes no point to the whole scene. 
 

in 40K these items have specific relevance  to papa sang

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

I disagree. Sanguinius explains in TEATD that he must face Horus before the Emperor because of his visions. If Sanguinius' visions are true and he fails to get to Horus first, it means that the Emperor is already dead. Even if he failed to materially affect the outcome of the duel, he sacrificed himself to prophecy simply so that the Emperor would have a chance to survive. If Sanguinius had stayed on Terra as the Emperor wished,  then Horus would have killed the Emperor and then Sanguinius.

 

Sanguinius knew that he was dead either way. But facing Horus first at least meant the Emperor had a chance. 

Tbh the idea that horus could kill the emperor in a fight is and should be ludacris.

even the old lore where he won due to sanguinius damaging Horus’ armor.

the emperor was supposed to be near godlike in power even at the time. For it to make sense for horus to kill the emperor, and to do so reliably and soundly the chaos gods would have had to empower horus to the point he was their equal or nearly so…which they’d never have done.

 

the emperor getting messed up because he was holding back hoping to bring Horus back make sense, but the idea that the emperor only survived because of anything sanguinius does is rather silly imho.

 

sanguinius having the vision of his death and still nobly going into battle is fine, especially if approached from the angle that like the emperor he held back for much of the fight while he pled with Horus to see the error of his ways and return to their father for forgiveness.

 

 

[Alternis]

 

 

First of all, it's Special Officer Doofy, not doofus. Biiiiig difference. A whole two letters, not just one.

 

And second, you keep bringing up a dead primarch that's not coming back, which is not on topic to the thread. I'm disagreeing with everyone that posts about it, you just happen to do it the most.

I’m not going to entertain any such conversation or a debate with you as it will turn into an argument and a mud slinging contest, something I’m keen to avoid. 
 

all I will say is, my statement stands, if you want to follow me around the forum specifically to disagree react my posts that’s on you for using the effort to do so, I find it more entertaining you’d go to such lengths. 
 

I do hope you enjoy the rest of your day/evening 

[Scribe]

 

Tbh the idea that horus could kill the emperor in a fight is and should be ludacris.

 

Apparently you didnt read the books.

[Alternis]

 

This is NOW WAY OFF TOPIC. Bring it back in please. Feel free to start another topic all about the resurrection of the primarch. 

Ok on this note I’m going to start a rumour thread involving all rumours regarding Returning Primarchs, Alive, dead and otherwise before this thread becomes too cluttered

[phandaal]

 

Ok on this note I’m going to start a rumour thread involving all rumours regarding Returning Primarchs, Alive, dead and otherwise before this thread becomes too cluttered

 

"I'm going to go solve this Lament Configuration real quick!"

 

Same energy. Vaya con Dios, sir. 

[Brother Tyler]

If anyone has anything to add about the Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard models, feel free to REPORT this post and a member of the staff will temporarily unlock the topic so that you can make your on-topic addition.

 

All of the other discussion is very interesting, but also very off topic. For those subjects for which there isn't an existing discussion topic, please start one so that we can continue those discussions appropriately (since they are definitely worth pursuing).

[Karhedron]

 

Out of interest, because I haven't read the book yet. What is the obvious meaning behind the things shown to Johnson? 

 

Lion El' Johnson is shown a grail, a candelabra and a spear. This is taken directly from Aurthurian legend, specifically when Perceval visits the Fisher King (which the scene is based on).

 

Now some people are insisting that the Grail means it is about Sanguinius and the Blood Angels. The Grail is a common mythological element between the two chapters. The Spear is more tenuous. OK Sanguinius sometimes wielded the Spear of Telesto but it is not exactly an iconic BA weapon. The Candelabra has nothing to do with Sanguinius or the BAs as far as I can tell.

 

The scene in "Lion Son of the Forest" is a dircet reference to Arthurian myth. Like Arthur, The Lion has returned in the hour of greatest need. But some people are missing the the Arthurian references and trying to tie it tenuously to Sanguinius. Now maybe GW is playing some clever double-bluff LSOTF is a pretty straight-forward narrative. I am not saying Sanguinius will never come back. I am saying that the particular scene with the Fisher is nothing to do with the Blood Angels, it is just people not knowing their King Arthur legends properly.