New AOS models (Gold BA Releases)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Personally, other then a few minor quibbles, I like the new sang guard better then the old ones. But I always felt they were a bit too busy before, for my tastes at least. I do agree the helmets are terrible, did they retcon the idea that the death masks were literally sculpted on/from sanguinius' face? 

 

I like the idea of the pennant, but it's the one thing they made too plain in my opinion. The jetpacks definitely feel lacking without the wings, but I think putting the wings on them would have ruined the asthetic I think they were trying for. I do agree that the inferno pistol being handheld makes no sense.

 

As for the sanguinor I was hoping for a more dynamic pose not a rehash of the "i'm-a-golden-god-worship-me-you-peons" thing he has going on now.

 

As for the blood angels are artists where's our bling thing, if that's your thing I lament with you brothers because these clearly fall way short of that mark, but for myself, I've always preferred the beauty in things simply but expertly crafted, and those deathmasks aside, that's the vibe I'm getting from these.

There’s the death mask of sanguinius that Dante wears, and then there’s just death masks, which I assume were just generic death masks.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also if you think the SG are bland there’s a nice upgrade sprue full of gubbins.

 

its a lot easier to glue on gubbins and make them look good than it is to remove sculpted gubbins and make them look good.

 

they might be artists but they still spend most of their time training for war rather than trying to fill in every single empty space on their armor with a new decoration. Not to mention there’s other ways to be artistic rather than just make their armor pretty. They could make banners/penants, paintings, sculptures, music, even dance.

 

hard to represent most of those on table top sure, but the idea that more gubbins on armor=artsy blood angels is a bit silly.

 

[Malphas]

The more I think about it, the more I'm reminded of 3.5 and 4th Ed, when people dealt with disappointing sculps by kitbashing anything and everything under the sun onto their models to get them how they liked.  Tbf, people still do that, but I don't think it's to the same degree as that 4th Ed global event for Black Templars, when the fledgling website showcased a bunch of player made models and tracked their battles, cataloging who made it and who got mercked.

 

In any event, the more I think about it, the more I see fertile ground for kitbashing, customization, and creativity.  It's a primarisized base case, and we can customize from there.  I can practically hear my pile of shame calling to me to cannibalize first born bits, and there's plenty if stuff in other ranges to be found.  I've got a whole box of dawnbreaker cohort just begging to cross the Rubicon Primaris right now.

[DemonGSides]

 

Also if you think the SG are bland there’s a nice upgrade sprue full of gubbins.

 

its a lot easier to glue on gubbins and make them look good than it is to remove sculpted gubbins and make them look good.

 

they might be artists but they still spend most of their time training for war rather than trying to fill in every single empty space on their armor with a new decoration. Not to mention there’s other ways to be artistic rather than just make their armor pretty. They could make banners/penants, paintings, sculptures, music, even dance.

 

hard to represent most of those on table top sure, but the idea that more gubbins on armor=artsy blood angels is a bit silly.

 

 

There isn't a nice upgrade sprue; there's a DC upgrade sprue that has a few keychains to throw on a belt. That's about it. No cool back pack toppers (One blood droplet, one blood droplet with laurels), no cool helmets(just one mk 10 with a single blood drop on the forehead) .Just DC snarling faces and DC weapons and generic shoulder pads and a few fancy pads.

 

If you want to ignore the history of the blood angels as artisans that's fine for your guys. But those of us who care about the lore have an expectation of bling. 

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

i also think we have easily some of the best bare heads for any marine release this lineup.

My bare head envy is real

 

Well not really just means ill end up nabbing some of bitz sites.

 

 

But overall i think your characters are good but the rest feels a bit muted. It's not the smash hit some marine releases have been.

[Blindhamster]

It’s interesting, I think the grass is always greener tbh. 
 

dark angels had plenty of lamentations too at the time, I think templars was broadly a hit though. But it’s still interesting that u see Templar players hoping for a new upgrade sprue in the vein of the dark angel one, when I recall dark angels lamenting their upgrade sprue relative to templars.

 

similarly, there was a lot of hate for the ICC for dark angels at the tim too. 
 

you just can’t please everyone with most releases honestly 

[Paladin777]

IIRC, I think DA lamentations were mostly rules based though. The general vibe I got from them was "cool models, now if only they were worth taking!" I'd take that over "these things are great on the tabletop, too bad they're really bland models."

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm reminded of 3.5 and 4th Ed, when people dealt with disappointing sculps by kitbashing anything and everything under the sun onto their models to get them how they liked.  Tbf, people still do that, but I don't think it's to the same degree as that 4th Ed global event for Black Templars, when the fledgling website showcased a bunch of player made models and tracked their battles, cataloging who made it and who got mercked.

 

In any event, the more I think about it, the more I see fertile ground for kitbashing, customization, and creativity.  It's a primarisized base case, and we can customize from there.  I can practically hear my pile of shame calling to me to cannibalize first born bits, and there's plenty if stuff in other ranges to be found.  I've got a whole box of dawnbreaker cohort just begging to cross the Rubicon Primaris right now.

I think the release of the new winged AOS unit is why we don’t have wings on our SG.

forcing us to buy two kits to get one unit of winged SG.

 

 

There isn't a nice upgrade sprue; there's a DC upgrade sprue that has a few keychains to throw on a belt. That's about it. No cool back pack toppers (One blood droplet, one blood droplet with laurels), no cool helmets(just one mk 10 with a single blood drop on the forehead) .Just DC snarling faces and DC weapons and generic shoulder pads and a few fancy pads.

 

If you want to ignore the history of the blood angels as artisans that's fine for your guys. But those of us who care about the lore have an expectation of bling. 

 

The only thing ‘DC’ about the upgrade sprue is the eviscerator.

you want gubbins, it has gubbins.

 

no one is ignoring anything.

they have muscular sculpted onto their armor, that’s very artisanal.

they have blood drops sculpted onto their chest plates, artisanal.

they have death masks, artisanal.

they have blood drops on the masks, artisanal. They have a fancy shoulder pad, artisanal. They have blood drops sculpted onto their weapons, artisanal.

 

cluttered=/=artisanal.

Edited August 13 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Blindhamster]

Also, I’m fairly sure you’ll be able to use the front greave pieces from other veteran kits or the captain. It’s rare that they are part of the main leg these days. We shall have to see or course.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

IIRC, I think DA lamentations were mostly rules based though. The general vibe I got from them was "cool models, now if only they were worth taking!" I'd take that over "these things are great on the tabletop, too bad they're really bland models."

I’d rather decent/good rules over perfect models.

you can always kitbash or buy 3rd party models and bits to make things cooler to your taste and be able to play them in 99% of the games you might want to play.

meanwhile bad rules, mean to rectify that short coming you have to house rules it, which won’t be allowed in any event you don’t organize, and many players may be very hesitant to agree to.

[LemartestheLost]

 

It’s interesting, I think the grass is always greener tbh. 
 

dark angels had plenty of lamentations too at the time, I think templars was broadly a hit though. But it’s still interesting that u see Templar players hoping for a new upgrade sprue in the vein of the dark angel one, when I recall dark angels lamenting their upgrade sprue relative to templars.

 

similarly, there was a lot of hate for the ICC for dark angels at the tim too. 
 

you just can’t please everyone with most releases honestly 

I certainly do agree that the grass is always greener and there’s always some bias towards talking about the negatives in the hobby, because at the end of the day we want the hobby to be better and we all care. However, I think the big difference here is that none of the Templars, Dark Angels, or Wolves are jealous of what we got. Across the internet the Space Wolves players are actively dreading what just happened. Dark Angels got neutered too don’t get me wrong but even so at least their new units hit the static but timeless aesthetic of space knights. The Templars just got blessed beyond measure I don’t even know what to say. Maybe the SG will grow on me and others but after seeing what others got, average new characters, ONE real 2/10 new upscaled unit, and a death company upgrade kit does not cut it for the world’s supposedly premium miniature company reworking a faction that has been on 1/5th of the flagship game system’s Edition cover art.

[DemonGSides]

 

I think the release of the new winged AOS unit is why we don’t have wings on our SG.

forcing us to buy two kits to get one unit of winged SG.

The only thing ‘DC’ about the upgrade sprue is the eviscerator.

you want gubbins, it has gubbins.

 

no one is ignoring anything.

they have muscular sculpted onto their armor, that’s very artisanal.

they have blood drops sculpted onto their chest plates, artisanal.

they have death masks, artisanal.

they have blood drops on the masks, artisanal. They have a fancy shoulder pad, artisanal. They have blood drops sculpted onto their weapons, artisanal.

 

cluttered=/=artisanal.

 

It's a DC upgrade sprue, it's included in the DC box.  It's got DC weapons; both the eviscerator and the pistol HAVE to be sourced from the upgrade sprue.

 

The bits are 9 keychains and two backpack toppers. Compared to the cavalcade of different types of bits from the first born era it's a real downgrade. Idk why you think otherwise.

 

All of blood angels are artisans, not just Sanguinary Guard. Once again, if you want to exist outside of the lore that's fine for you, but some of us care a little more. That's ok too.

 

You go be happy with scraps. I had higher hopes. 

Edited August 13 by DemonGSides

[Helias_Tancred]

 

But I always felt they were a bit too busy before, for my tastes at least.

 

 

You know, the more I think about it, I definitely see your point.

 

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

It’s interesting, I think the grass is always greener tbh. 
 

dark angels had plenty of lamentations too at the time, I think templars was broadly a hit though. But it’s still interesting that u see Templar players hoping for a new upgrade sprue in the vein of the dark angel one, when I recall dark angels lamenting their upgrade sprue relative to templars.

 

similarly, there was a lot of hate for the ICC for dark angels at the tim too. 
 

you just can’t please everyone with most releases honestly 

Well to be fair we only want (or at least I do) a new upgrade kit because the current one predates the terminator update. Aka we want terminator bits. A bespoke kit would accomplish that better but lets not get ahead of ourselves. 

 

And this only under the assumption that when we get our 10th ed codex, it actually comes with something. Given the pattern of our releases before then, then suddenly a 2021 wave that felt the equivalent of 30 years of releases at once in contrast, Im back to feeling skeptical about that.

 

But yeah comparing the BA release in total it does feel like it comes up short

[Blindhamster]

For me the problem from a wider release perspective is I’d definitely have liked a second actual unit kit.

- BT got three bespoke units (included grimaldus here because he has a unit)

- They got an upgrade sprue 

- they got 4 character models

 

- DA got two bespoke units

- they got an upgrade sprue

- They got 5 character models (Lazarus, azrael, lion, belial, asmodai - admittedly over 3 releases)

 

- BA for one bespoke unit

- they got an upgrade sprue

- they got 7 character models (mephiston, Dante, lemartes, astorath, captain, sanguinary priest, sanguinor, like DA, spread over 3 releases)

 

I know for some the upgrade sprue for BA isn’t as good, that’s a valid view, I don’t agree, doesn’t make any of us more right.

We have done “better” than the rest on characters. IMO mephiston is still the best character update of all the marines too. But I like all of our updates. Even if you just look at this release, we got more characters than DA or even BT.

 

The sanguinary guard probably would have been more positively received if they simply had winged jump packs. I’ve seen some crazy things on the internet today with people hailing regular assault intercessors with sanguinary guard jump packs as being better than the new unit. Which is just dumb frankly. At least we know 3d model designers will have a field day making bespoke jump packs with wings lol.

 

[Paladin777]

 

I’d rather decent/good rules over perfect models.

you can always kitbash or buy 3rd party models and bits to make things cooler to your taste and be able to play them in 99% of the games you might want to play.

meanwhile bad rules, mean to rectify that short coming you have to house rules it, which won’t be allowed in any event you don’t organize, and many players may be very hesitant to agree to.

Rules for a unit only last for so long. After all both DWK and ICC are quite usable now after only a few months. 
 

Sculpts last a hell of a lot longer than that!

Edited August 13 by Paladin777

[Paladin777]

Soooo... tell me GW was lazy with the SG without telling me GW was lazy with the SG...

 

Edit: I apologize, but i noticed that the middle JAI wasn't the same. The currently red circled one certainly looks pretty similar but flipped though. 

Edited August 13 by Paladin777

[DemonGSides]

I think having a good model would've saved the Sanguinary Guard; wings weren't going to be enough, the combination of complete sterilization of their bling and almost no way to differentiate them from each other basically ruins it as a model kit.  At least having bespoke helmets would've given SOME sort of identity.  Instead you get triplets.

 

Mephiston and Dante were great updates, Astorath is okay, Lemartes is meh.  Captain is awesome, SP is fine but comes along with the loss of JP SP so it's automatically the worst part of the whole release.  Sanguinor is fine but also a bummer because it could've been so much more.

I just really don't get what spurs them into deciding what's going to be "updated" in that it's going to get something that's going to radically change the kit, and what just gets "upgraded", in that the new version is just the same thing.  Like Mephiston falls under Update; made that model actually look good, took him in an interesting direction, but also kept the faith with being a direct reference to old style art, but with new style sensibilities, and they CRUSHED it.

Meanwhile, Dante was okay; his pose is awkward as hell and I normally like the angelic falling thing that BA have (Even though some people don't seem to get it, even after 20+ years), and there are some aesthetic things I would've done different, but overall another good "Update" (And boy did he need it, whew, 2006 was the previous!).

 

Then there's Lemartes, who's "Updated", and in a terrible way.  The armor and stuff is fine, I like the Crozius, I even like the mask.  I'd love the mask on the old pose; you get the feral scream while retaining his entire reason for existing; he's "better" than other Death Company in that he's got at least a tenuous grasp on civility and sanity.  We lose an iconic part of armor as well, RIP Bone Toes.  The model is "good" in that it's not Sanguinary Guard levels of "What the hell where they smoking?", but it's still a disappointment compared to the past.  And I'm normally not one to fawn over FB stuff; I threw in with Primaris HARD when they came out, loving the better scale.  But it's a swing and a miss for me, but not a strike-out; I'm still going to own this new version, and will play it.  But I'll still always be on the lookout for an upscaled version of the original.

 

Next up, Astorath, an "Upgrade".  THis is just old Astorath, made bigger in all ways.  I don't love Astorath from the get go, but they definitely fixed all my problems with the old model; I just don't care about Astorath.  SO this should be a huge win if you're an Astorath guy.  I think the new Sanguinary Guard might make great Erelim or whatever his weird bodyguards are; they're supposed to be all very similar looking, basically goth'd out SG that are also Chaplains, and there's only 5 of em.  Replace these awful SG helms with some completed blacked out Chaplain skulls and baby, we're cooking.

 

Sanguinor is another "upgrade", and frankly, mostly disappointing because of what COULD have been than what we got.  I don't have the hangups everyone else does about Tacticus Sanguinor; he's a psychic warp manifestation, there's nothing that says he HAS to be in any sort of thing, though I think they could've won brownie points for making the armor more baroque, due to history behind the Sanguinor.  I like how big his cup got, I think the face will look good in other people's hands than 'Eavy Metal (They suck at faces), and he's still got a single jump jet thruster, like Astorath, which is a nice nod to the history of our models, and probably should've just been the "Blood Angel Jump Pack" and I think people would've been happy with that.  His wings should be a softer feather, instead of the hard feathers we got; the hard feathers make sense on Astorath, they dont' make sense on Sanguinor.  I would've liked something closer to bird feathers, like Sanguinius himself.  Overall, I am fine with the Sanguinor where I think a lot of people are too critical of this model.

 

Sanguinary Priest is actually a pretty sweet model, soured completely by the fact of losing the Jump Pack Sanguinary Priest.  What an Iconic unit, surrounded by a BUNCH of stuff that has Jump Packs strapped to their back, who no longer can do so.  Just absolutely wild that they didn't think this through.  Good model, terrible business decisions.

 

BA Captain is dope as hell and should be considered the high water mark of the release.  Seems to have a grip of options, lots of kitbash-ability, has some interesting bits.  I expect to buy quite a few of these over the coming years.

Death Company is an "upgrade"; they took the old stuff and got rid of it for something newer and it sucks.  Anyone complaining that the old models were too busy is just showing their whole butt; you could ALWAYS paint up some plain jane Death Company with any other marine kit possible, and the old Death Company kit was a great source of bits to throw on those other types of marines you might have to make them more obviously Death Company; I've got 5 Assault Marines I did just that with to round out my 25 DC to 30 way back when.  Now, new players are forced into a situation where there's almost 0 JUST DC bits besides the weapons on the upgrade Sprue.  Just unfortunate to lose all that juicy flavor.

 

Sanguinary Guard have been beat into the dirt all day.  Just lazy and boring; I don't find them BAD, I find them sad.

 

[SvenIronhand]

 

I think the release of the new winged AOS unit is why we don’t have wings on our SG.

forcing us to buy two kits to get one unit of winged SG.

...No? Why would GW want you to buy a kit from a completely different line?

[ThaneOfTas]

 

*snip*

 

Its honestly kinda impressive, historically I have found myself disagreeing pretty completely with @DemonGSides on matters of aesthetic preference and desires for the future of the BA range. And yet, here I sit, basically in complete agreement with you on the new releases. 

 

Mephiston = genuinely fantastic, no notes.

 

Dante = not perfect but more than good enough. I don't like the flaps on the jump pack but at least he doesn't have ankle jets so i can deal.

 

Lemartes = Personally i never had a strong attachment to the character, however the new one really doesnt feel like the same character as the old one. Its not a bad jump pack Chaplain (MkX jump pack not withstanding) but doesnt make me think Lemartes.

 

Astorath = I do quite like Astorath as a character. I'll not be getting this new kit, primarily because i see no reason to update my old one, its painted nicely and im perfectly happy with it. I will confess that i had not been aware that apparently his "face" was a mask, and i do not like that at all. I've seen people claiming both tha tthis is a change and that it was always a mask, i certainly never noticed it on the old kit however, some greenstuff and careful snipping would probably be able to fix it on the new kit.

 

Sanguinor = Completely agree, hes fine, but could have been so much more. Honestly the kit in this release that im most likely to actually buy, simply because i never got the old one.

 

Sanguinary Priest = It's a perfectly good Blood Angels Apothecary, Its missing something to make it feel more like a Sanguinary Priest. Plus you're dead on about it being a travesty for it to loose its Jump Pack.

 

BA Captain = theres nothing in this that i can point to that i outright dislike, its got everything techically there, good options and variety, an abundance of extra bits, decent filigree and greebils, it just doesnt excite me. I'll probably buy one too eventually, I'm just not in any rush.

 

DC = You put it perfectly. Painting Intercessors black and calling them Deathcompany has been an option since 8th Edition. the adition of a single Inferno Pistol an Evicerator is not ever close to enough to make up for what we lost. If you like the "new kit" you could have been doing it for like 5 years now, we lost a great kit in exchange for nothing.

[Blindhamster]

honestly I think we will eventually get an actual death company kit and that will actually likely be more frustrating

[ThaneOfTas]

 

honestly I think we will eventually get an actual death company kit and that will actually likely be more frustrating

What do you mean? how do you expect it to be more frustrating?

[Tokugawa]

Historically BA and DA had much more bigger products range than BT. BT had all units updated, and 2 "surprise gift" models, the Bayard's revenge and John Blanche castellan. Releases of such size is bigger than sufficient for BT, but not the same for BA/DA. 

[Blindhamster]

 

What do you mean? how do you expect it to be more frustrating?

Ive a feeling when it happens it'll just be another pivot in how the unit will work and no doubt will result in dramatic model changes being required again. It'll probably happen JUST as people finally capitulate and make DC intercessors to fit the options available too. GW gonna GW.

 

Incidentally though Death Company are probably one of the most inconsistent units in the game in terms of wargear options and rules throughout the editions. They also tend to swing like a pendulum in terms of effectiveness.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

...No? Why would GW want you to buy a kit from a completely different line?

So they can make more money.

SG are likely to be $60, I think the AoS wing bois are probably $60.

 

You want wings for your SG? Cough up another $60.

the new AoS wings are dope :cuss:, it doesn’t make sense for them to skip the wings. People who don’t like them don’t have to put them on if that was the concern.