NOVA Open Preview - August 28th/29th

[DeadFingers]

 

Wait!

 

What's up with all those previews we have been getting in few months, pointing to some kind of (dark) mechanicum or thousand sons release? According to the roadmap that one would over 10 months away, if nothing new gets released until end of year? 

If you mean the Rumour Engines (which are never guaranteed to be what you might expect), they can take years, and I mean YEARS to be solved. Rumour Engines being teased now might remain unsolved until next edition. There's still one left from mid-2022 that looks like it's going to stay like that for what's left of this year, at least.

 

And if there are any lore hints you might be referring to, those are even flimsier, as they might also take ages to add up to something or end in nothing, as unlike the Rumour Engines, they're just text and not pictures of models, so they aren't set in stone or they might just be fun descriptions or references. Fulgrim technically returned to 40k back in 8th, the Psychic Awakening books even had multiple mentions of him with one going so far as to say "The Illuminator is coming", and here we all are, two editions later, finally getting to the point where we might see him next year. Maybe.

Edited August 29 by DeadFingers

[ZeroWolf]

Plus it's worth pointing out that there has been teases thrown out that weren't solved for neigh on two years 

[bloodhound23]

Incredible that they come out and state this sort of "timeline" in 2024.

 

Unbelievably flat and vague pronouncements that look even more worthless when typed out.

 

"There will be new Space Marine models for Heresy." The whole thing was about as helpful as this.

 

3 years for faction specific rules? What's the point of waiting?

[Dr. Clock]

 

1. Release a game worth paying to play.

2. Updates to your army worth paying for.

3. Support every other product line.

4. Start the cycle over every 3 years.

How? I mean... they kinda are doing it?

 

1: I think the current game is worth paying for, which is to say I have mostly happily paid for it, and more than most other editions (and I've been playing since 2nd) because the app actually works and is my preferred way to learn the rules. I think they charge more than they should, and that they should let us go pure digital for rules if we want to, but I think the game is worth paying some amount of money for. I also think there have been some clear misses that I have paid for (AdMech and GSC for me personally), but as the game has progressed they have actually been pretty good at making up for early mistakes, and by that I mean better than they were in relatively recent memory. In particular I felt bad about AdMech for a bit, but they are feeling alot better than they were! And if GSC gets a reasonable price or army rule tryover, I'll be all the happier for it.

 

Also there are free versions of the game as long as you are okay just using launch indexes.

 

2: Same as above - everyone values money or alternatives differently. So far and literally until the Imperial Agents codex I have bought all the codexes for my armies this edition, and I don't think I ever did that because it was always easier to just pirate a pdf or use Battlescribe or both. Basically I agree that it's on the app and digital side where the game experience is in fact only now becoming worth it for me, a lazy person, to pay for. They can do better, but I'm having a good time!

 

3: Seems to be going pretty well other than the part where the releases get stretched because they can't make or store enough of new products all at once to satisfy initial demand AND still have the stock on shelves a week after release. It would surprise me if they have the capacity to even really do the old 8th/9th thing of packing a launch box with 2 factions including a mix of older stuff as well - the implication is that they don't have the capacity to do the runs of the old stuff necessary to fill that kind of box. I just treat every Heresy and Necromunda and Kill Team release as a 40k release, and I'm so much happier for it ; ) Also... start an AoS army maybe lol? As a Skaven-haver I'm glad *OT COMMENTS REDACTED BY ORDER OF ORDO MODERATI*

 

4: For me this is all going to come down to how they treat your codex purchases on the app in the next edition. If it's a re-index and everyone gets free rules again then I think that's more or less fair, except for people who bought codexes in the last 6ish months of the edition... Basically I feel bad for Votann and WE people who bought the 9th codexes I guess (I am both, but didn't buy them). I guess at this point 3 years seems quick, but also possibly timely, if handled with a modicum consideration.

 

 

Given that 10th is the most widely panned edition since 7th and is inspiring zero confidence in GW rules design while simultaneous giving us the worst marines since centurions it only makes historical sense that this is the edition GW decides to change their product life cycle and move to five or six years between editions so we can all keep enjoying 10th for another four years!

Widely panned by whom? Like if your local friends aren't feeling it that's too bad, but it's in a pretty sweet spot for me and my crew... There's definitely room for improvement, and I understand some things might not be to your taste, but overall I still have confidence that both game and design studio can deliver. Crummy models being released from time to time is just a thing we need to accept because capital gonna capitalism; don't let it ever shake you from hobbying / gaming how you wanna!

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Xenith]

 

it only makes historical sense that this is the edition GW decides to change their product life cycle and move to five or six years between editions so we can all keep enjoying 10th for another four years!

Don't even joke about it 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

How? I mean... they kinda are doing it?

 

1: I think the current game is worth paying for, which is to say I have mostly happily paid for it, and more than most other editions (and I've been playing since 2nd) because the app actually works and is my preferred way to learn the rules. I think they charge more than they should, and that they should let us go pure digital for rules if we want to, but I think the game is worth paying some amount of money for. I also think there have been some clear misses that I have paid for (AdMech and GSC for me personally), but as the game has progressed they have actually been pretty good at making up for early mistakes, and by that I mean better than they were in relatively recent memory. In particular I felt bad about AdMech for a bit, but they are feeling alot better than they were! And if GSC gets a reasonable price or army rule tryover, I'll be all the happier for it.

 

Also there are free versions of the game as long as you are okay just using launch indexes.

 

2: Same as above - everyone values money or alternatives differently. So far and literally until the Imperial Agents codex I have bought all the codexes for my armies this edition, and I don't think I ever did that because it was always easier to just pirate a pdf or use Battlescribe or both. Basically I agree that it's on the app and digital side where the game experience is in fact only now becoming worth it for me, a lazy person, to pay for. They can do better, but I'm having a good time!

 

3: Seems to be going pretty well other than the part where the releases get stretched because they can't make or store enough of new products all at once to satisfy initial demand AND still have the stock on shelves a week after release. It would surprise me if they have the capacity to even really do the old 8th/9th thing of packing a launch box with 2 factions including a mix of older stuff as well - the implication is that they don't have the capacity to do the runs of the old stuff necessary to fill that kind of box. I just treat every Heresy and Necromunda and Kill Team release as a 40k release, and I'm so much happier for it ; ) Also... start an AoS army maybe lol? As a Skaven-haver I'm glad *OT COMMENTS REDACTED BY ORDER OF ORDO MODERATI*

 

4: For me this is all going to come down to how they treat your codex purchases on the app in the next edition. If it's a re-index and everyone gets free rules again then I think that's more or less fair, except for people who bought codexes in the last 6ish months of the edition... Basically I feel bad for Votann and WE people who bought the 9th codexes I guess (I am both, but didn't buy them). I guess at this point 3 years seems quick, but also possibly timely, if handled with a modicum consideration.

 

Widely panned by whom? Like if your local friends aren't feeling it that's too bad, but it's in a pretty sweet spot for me and my crew... There's definitely room for improvement, and I understand some things might not be to your taste, but overall I still have confidence that both game and design studio can deliver. Crummy models being released from time to time is just a thing we need to accept because capital gonna capitalism; don't let it ever shake you from hobbying / gaming how you wanna!

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

You guys are super into four month rules changes invalidating your codex and buying cards that are invalid on day one? Wild sweet spot bro, ask a doctor about that. 

[Xenith]

Last year's road map and this year's road map is like last year's sanguinary guard and this year's sanguinary guard. Sure the new one is larger and cost more to produce, but last year's one was more detailed and satisfying.

[Dr. Clock]

 

buying cards

lol wut. Obvs never buy the cards because basically you can only rely on the app, but at least it just seamlessly includes the quarterly updates...? I know we're all in a fiendish dance of connoisseurship around a temple of commerce, but I try not to burn literally all of the dollars on this, only most of them I guess. If you like other games more for whatever reason, I'm not trying to harsh your mellow. More games is better games, truly.

 

At this point I suppose I'm generally willing to accept the proposition that the thing I'm buying is like 50% just the potential and likelihood for its continued balancing within the overall digital ruleset as things change and intensify over an edition (or two?). I do like evolving ruleset more than being locked hard to what's written in a book. So yeah, for the first half of an edition I figure I'm probably good for 3-5 years on a codex... and I do want to use the rules in the app for those years... No app would mean no purchase from me for sure. 

 

I understand that this is kinda 'games as a service' mentality, but for tabletop I think GW understand that the app is a support for the tabletop, not a replacement like we're seeing in fantasy roleplays not to be mentioned... And I guess the app is now obviously replacing the books and cards as the support, but they don't have the courage to just say that's what they're doing and insist that what we're buying is 'a rulebook'. I know the 'cool books!' part was more valuable to some than it ended up being to me, who just pirated every edition from 5th through most of 9th.

 

Finally - the book is not 'completely invalid' because later 'approved versions' exist. Absent the digital or printed updates, I'm sure one could have a perfectly cromulent game of warhams with any 2 given codexes printed thus far, even if relying only on 'what's in the book'. Sure - you can't go to a big tournament or whatever with just the one book, but you kinda never could anyway?

 

It's certainly regrettable that we enjoy some older models more than their newer versions, and I hope all dear Frater had the foresight to hang on to the ones we did enjoy most, or if not the present means to just collect the old stuff we like, to say nothing of the tenacity to play whatever game we please among consenting participants.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[INKS]

I don't use the app or cards. you too will survive. :)

[Noserenda]

I do think 40k is possibly updating too often, but 30k really reminds me what neglecting rules problems and misprints is like at the suckier end of the scale. Dont really care about the physical book being "invalidated" (Some amount of sarcasm) as it goes right in a box/shelf and i work off various electronic things anyway 90% of the time, bulky hardbacks are just too much of a ballache for me.

 

[HeadlessCross]

 

Given that 10th is the most widely panned edition since 7th

Source: Dude, trust me

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

They need to just hire Valrak to run their marketing department.

 

Ha! No thanks, I actually like to engage and have a laugh with my followers 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I do think 40k is possibly updating too often, but 30k really reminds me what neglecting rules problems and misprints is like at the suckier end of the scale. Dont really care about the physical book being "invalidated" (Some amount of sarcasm) as it goes right in a box/shelf and i work off various electronic things anyway 90% of the time, bulky hardbacks are just too much of a ballache for me.

 

Updates every 6-9 months would be better imho.

and if they could figure out how to write points costs so the codex is actually valid for the first 6-9 months after release that would be nice.

 

 

Ha! No thanks, I actually like to engage and have a laugh with my followers 

So you say, but where’s my engagement party valrak? 

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

So you say, but where’s my engagement party valrak? 

 

10 members first.

[01RTB01]

 

I do think 40k is possibly updating too often, but 30k really reminds me what neglecting rules problems and misprints is like at the suckier end of the scale. Dont really care about the physical book being "invalidated" (Some amount of sarcasm) as it goes right in a box/shelf and i work off various electronic things anyway 90% of the time, bulky hardbacks are just too much of a ballache for me.

 

Not sure where the heresy issues are? Second Ed has been so much better than 1.0 and I loved 1.0. Leave heresy be bar releasing more minis and campaign books.

[Noserenda]

 

Not sure where the heresy issues are? Second Ed has been so much better than 1.0 and I loved 1.0. Leave heresy be bar releasing more minis and campaign books.

Spot the marine only player eh? :D Completely leaving aside problems with design decisions some of the books are riddled with errors and misprints, Liber Imperium being the sorest thumb, and even after a long (looong) delayed FAQ they still havent fixed them all. Thats the real problem with their "ignore the problems until the moaning gets annoying enough" there has never been a flawless book printed and those little slips should be quickly identified and fixed, a game is not better because its left alone, quite the opposite.

(And its seemingly exactly the same problem with Epic, and it was exactly the niggling issue with Titanicus before it lest people think im just picking on Age of Darkness, im just glad the Old World team thinks differently!) 

[Magos Takatus]

 

 

Ha! No thanks, I actually like to engage and have a laugh with my followers 

Agreed. I'd sure it would be a terrible business decision for GW to side with a content creator that revels in being called "Scamrak" 

I find it funny that your wild "foilrak" rumour skits are still about as specific as GW's efforts. Wait.... are they getting their intel from you? 

[ursvamp]

Hm.

a lot of negativity in this topic. Not quite sure why.

 

This reveal gave us way more info than I was expecting.

Last year they only showed us which factions would get codexes during Fall - Spring. But we were left guessing as to which of those would get full model releases (as opposed to the Character+Codex Treatment).

 

This year we know which factions are getting their codexes during Fall - Spring, as well as which of those are getting model releases, and that the next model release, after what is shown on the map, is something chaos-related.

That’s pretty huge.

 

I believe that is more official glimpse-into-the-future information than we’ve had from GW in 14 years (when they stopped using their newsletter to announce what was being released six months ahead).

 

No model release, besides BA, during Fall was expected (there is usually three slots for big releases during the fall. Two of them was always going to go to Skaven and Stormcast, because of the launch of the new edition, and the third going to the Middle-Earth launch, to tie in to the movie makes a lot of sense).

I’m very surprised there are no Character+Codex release during that time. Was really expecting that.

But, then again, I’m sure with them wanting to push both new AoS, to make it a success, and the new Middle-Earth edition being more time-sensitive, they probably don’t want 40k to steal sales from those.

Edited August 30 by ursvamp

[INKS]

I can not speak for anyone else but the big take away for me is nothing for the rest of the year. Nothing. every other game is getting something. And with so many more codex that need to be worked on and done, it's crazy that there is nothing coming until next year. Don't say there is big news when the news is nothing for the rest of the year... 

 

If there goal is the push AOS and Middle earth they are falling flat with me. And I know I am not alone. I have zero interest in either of those games. You might get some money out of me for kill team but honestly I am even less interested in that right now as well.

 

Even if the releases for the rest of the year were for armies I am not interested in, that is ok. I can see something it being done and released. work on the edition is being done and progress is being made. But with so much more work to do on this edition, it seems silly to me to do nothing... to release nothing. no models, no book, just nothing. see you next year.

 

Instead we got. BA for the rest of the year... we already knew that. Old news honestly. We've seen all the models, seen the rules.... that isn't a reveal. Heck... wait and save the BA for this reveal if you have NOTHING else for the rest of the year... 

 

That is why I am a little upset, and why I am negative. 

Is it the end of the world? no, of course not. But it isn't giving me good vibes either.

 

 

[Mogger351]

 

Hm.

a lot of negativity in this topic. Not quite sure why.

 

This reveal gave us way more info than I was expecting.

Last year they only showed us which factions would get codexes during Fall - Spring. But we were left guessing as to which of those would get full model releases (as opposed to the Character+Codex Treatment).

 

This year we know which factions are getting their codexes during Fall - Spring, as well as which of those are getting model releases, and that the next model release, after what is shown on the map, is something chaos-related.

That’s pretty huge.

 

I believe that is more official glimpse-into-the-future information than we’ve had from GW in 14 years (when they stopped using their newsletter to announce what was being released six months ahead).

 

No model release, besides BA, during Fall was expected (there is usually three slots for big releases during the fall. Two of them was always going to go to Skaven and Stormcast, because of the launch of the new edition, and the third going to the Middle-Earth launch, to tie in to the movie makes a lot of sense).

I’m very surprised there are no Character+Codex release during that time. Was really expecting that.

But, then again, I’m sure with them wanting to push both new AoS, to make it a success, and the new Middle-Earth edition being more time-sensitive, they probably don’t want 40k to steal sales from those.

 

Last years map showed 9 specific books and a tease over a 9 month period and gave you a 3 month window as to which of those was releasing.
Autumn: 2 books
Winter: 5 books 
Spring: 3 books

This years shows 3 specific books over a 16 month period due to the fact the roadmap is just 2025 then a vague mention of chaos.

Autumn: 1 book

Winter: ? books
Spring: ? books

Summer: ? books
Autumn: ? books

Winter: ? books

Because none of them have any chronological information beyond the fact they're next. That could be Jan it could be next December. Knights are mentioned as being close to guard, that doesn't mean specifically after. This road map somehow misses the other reveal they already gave for next year: "There will be a dedicated Grey Knights Codex on the way next year".

 

It might be because I work in a QA/information based role for my job but this is woeful, my colleagues would chew me out for that level of vague imprecision whereas the only people happy about it would be the sales primadonnas who would sell you a blunt spoon to dig a hole.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

lol wut. Obvs never buy the cards because basically you can only rely on the app, but at least it just seamlessly includes the quarterly updates...? I know we're all in a fiendish dance of connoisseurship around a temple of commerce, but I try not to burn literally all of the dollars on this, only most of them I guess. If you like other games more for whatever reason, I'm not trying to harsh your mellow. More games is better games, truly.

 

At this point I suppose I'm generally willing to accept the proposition that the thing I'm buying is like 50% just the potential and likelihood for its continued balancing within the overall digital ruleset as things change and intensify over an edition (or two?). I do like evolving ruleset more than being locked hard to what's written in a book. So yeah, for the first half of an edition I figure I'm probably good for 3-5 years on a codex... and I do want to use the rules in the app for those years... No app would mean no purchase from me for sure. 

 

I understand that this is kinda 'games as a service' mentality, but for tabletop I think GW understand that the app is a support for the tabletop, not a replacement like we're seeing in fantasy roleplays not to be mentioned... And I guess the app is now obviously replacing the books and cards as the support, but they don't have the courage to just say that's what they're doing and insist that what we're buying is 'a rulebook'. I know the 'cool books!' part was more valuable to some than it ended up being to me, who just pirated every edition from 5th through most of 9th.

 

Finally - the book is not 'completely invalid' because later 'approved versions' exist. Absent the digital or printed updates, I'm sure one could have a perfectly cromulent game of warhams with any 2 given codexes printed thus far, even if relying only on 'what's in the book'. Sure - you can't go to a big tournament or whatever with just the one book, but you kinda never could anyway?

 

It's certainly regrettable that we enjoy some older models more than their newer versions, and I hope all dear Frater had the foresight to hang on to the ones we did enjoy most, or if not the present means to just collect the old stuff we like, to say nothing of the tenacity to play whatever game we please among consenting participants.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

You should be a professional boxer with that much reach. 

[darkhorse0607]

 

 

This year we know which factions are getting their codexes during Fall - Spring, as well as which of those are getting model releases, and that the next model release, after what is shown on the map, is something chaos-related.

That’s pretty huge.

 

That's also not what they said. Just going off of the map itself, it doesn't say that those codices are what's coming fall-spring. In fact, none of them can come in the fall, as to your later point that there is nothing coming out in the fall except Blood Angels

 

In theory, those are what's coming in spring, but it isn't labeled as such. It's labeled 2025. Am I splitting hairs, maybe, but if they had actually labeled it like they did last year there wouldn't be room for discussion. Although that being said, the Heresy melee weapons were slated for Spring of this year and they still haven't even been revealed.

 

Also, they said in the stream that the Chaos reveal isn't until the end of next year, not what is after the three announced codices. On top of that, while they said that Eldar and Imperial Guard are getting stuff, they didn't mention Knights at all so it's not like they gave us full information for the three. Just a sentence here or there, new aspect warriors, for example, could be one kit, or it could be a full second wave, we do not know

 

 

No model release, besides BA, during Fall was expected (there is usually three slots for big releases during the fall. Two of them was always going to go to Skaven and Stormcast, because of the launch of the new edition, and the third going to the Middle-Earth launch, to tie in to the movie makes a lot of sense).

 

 

Expected by whom? Let's clarify that for the months of September-December, there will be no 40k releases other than what's already been shown and Kill Team (although you could discount that as it's for a second game system)

 

That means, on face value, there aren't any 40k models for Warhammer day, there aren't codices or single characters for those coming out in the next four months, etc. It just told the 40k community who haven't had their releases not only to not expect them any time soon, and the window of time between when they get their stuff and 11th edition is closing (assuming they keep the 3-year pattern).

 

If you were satisfied by the reveal, then I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong for being so, have at it. I'm not trying to be rude. But there are plenty of reasons to be negative about this "reveal" stream. Quite frankly, most of these "roadmaps" are more in the vein of something you'd get for an end-of-year wrap-up rather than a "vision into the future" as GW puts it. Especially when they have already set a standard for what they consider roadmaps to be (the ones done last year for example), and this isn't it

 

Also can I just mention that because of normal GW marketing hype, promising people roadmaps, there are folks that got up/stayed up until 2am for this? And this is what GW gave them

Edited August 30 by darkhorse0607

[ursvamp]

 

 

Last years map showed 9 specific books and a tease over a 9 month period and gave you a 3 month window as to which of those was releasing.
Autumn: 2 books
Winter: 5 books 
Spring: 3 books

This years shows 3 specific books over a 16 month period due to the fact the roadmap is just 2025 then a vague mention of chaos.

Well, they clearly state in the video that they’ll start off the new year with Astra Militarum, then followed by Eldar.

Both will get model releases, which means they’ll fill the first two release slots for 40k. Which, in turn, usually means we’ll see both of them released over a period of 1-3 months, starting in jan. or feb. (or what would be called ”spring 2025”, in last year’s roadmap).

 

so the information we have covers the same period as last years roadmap. It just happen to be fewer books released during that period of time.

And I can totally see how that can be upsetting!

But there is no claim that this would be an exhaustive roadmap covering all of 2025. :)

In fact, listening to what is said on stream, we know it just covers about the first quarter or so of the year.

[Mogger351]

 

Well, they clearly state in the video that they’ll start off the new year with Astra Militarum, then followed by Eldar.

Both will get model releases, which means they’ll fill the first two release slots for 40k. Which, in turn, usually means we’ll see both of them released over a period of 1-3 months, starting in jan. or feb. (or what would be called ”spring 2025”, in last year’s roadmap).

 

so the information we have covers the same period as last years roadmap. It just happen to be fewer books released during that period of time.

And I can totally see how that can be upsetting!

But there is no claim that this would be an exhaustive roadmap covering all of 2025. :)

In fact, listening to what is said on stream, we know it just covers about the first quarter or so of the year.

 

Please tell me where they outright say the first 2 release slots are at the start of the calendar year. Please tell me where they state the roadmap ceases in August next year. The only hints of a date is krieg "starting off the new year" it doesn't mention anything about any other timespans.

 

You've assumed a lot from very little information and stating it as fact.

 

The point still stands the release pace has slowed to a crawl and by all measure it looks like 1/3 of the game get a 12 months or less codex.

[ursvamp]

 

Also, they said in the stream that the Chaos reveal isn't until the end of next year, not what is after the three announced codices.

 

End of the year was not mentioned. They said Chaos is after Eldar :)

 

 

 

If you were satisfied by the reveal, then I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong for being so, have at it. I'm not trying to be rude

 

 

Hm. I’m not sure what being satisfied by the reveal would mean.

they gave us information about which the next three model releases are going to be. Which is more than we’ve gotten in many years (maybe ever). They didn’t show off any models, but they had been very forthright with this being focused on what’s coming, rather than models.

I understand that people may be dissapointed in what armies are coming when, or that there is a time gap in codex-releases for a while.

But, personally, I much prefer knowing what is coming in the next 6months, over being kept in the dark. Even when what is (or isn’t!) coming is not to my tastes.

hm.