Golden Demon Golden Demon SPIEL (2024) to ban AI-generated content / further revisions

[Joe]

Following the kick-off in the community after an entry at Golden Demon AdeptiCon 2024 snuck an AI-generated backdrop through, Games Workshop have clarified that AI-generated content is not allowed.

 

EDIT: To add, there have been further revisions to the category and entry guidelines pack, with clearer wording regarding joint entries and so on.

 

 

8.  Am I allowed to use Artificial Intelligence to generate any part of my entry?

No.

Edited August 20 by Joe
Further information.

[Orion]

Good stance.

[phandaal]

First I am hearing about the Adepticon thing. What does "snuck an AI-generated backdrop" mean? Did the artist lie about it or something?

[skylerboodie]

This is the piece apparently; not sure re: sneakiness.

[Joe]

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

[phandaal]

 

This is the piece apparently; not sure re: sneakiness.

 

Nice, thank you! And yeah that does not look very sneaky to me haha. 

[darkhorse0607]

 

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

It was a bit interesting to see some of the stances of the normal GD entrants after that, and how some of them circled the wagons

 

You'd think after you painted 100s of hours on a space marine kneecap you'd not want to compete against something AI

[grailkeeper]

I can see why people are against AI, especially in a creative competition. I think using it like photoshop for a simple background like that guy did should be ok. Anything involving a model should be absolutely no go- for example using AI and printing it out on transfer paper or as means of making a banner. That being said, having it completely banned doesnt upset me too much

 

Full disclosure my avatar is an AI generated spacemarine version of my old avatar.

[phandaal]

 

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

 

To be fair, the losing groups in Golden Demon can be pretty creative with their complaints. Remember one year recently, someone won by painting a Skink to literal perfection and people were complaining that he hadn't even used any OSL or things like that. People will go to great lengths to justify saying the winners really should not have won.

 

The background was probably the least part of what got him a gold for that model, so he can be forgiven for getting defensive.

[Redcomet]

 

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

AI bros always come off as terrible dudes only marginally more normal than crypto bros

[Captain Idaho]

Wait, can robots paint miniatures now? I didn't realise this was such an issue.

[Petitioner's City]

 

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

 

Probably worth sharing 

 

 

 

But it's an interesting interview and worth listening too in full :) 

 

Edit: I don't condone his language or views, and I agree the crew should have been deeper and less chummy in their discussion (although I understand they can't be arses themselves to their guests!)

Edited August 20 by Petitioner's City

[Focslain]

 

Wait, can robots paint miniatures now? I didn't realise this was such an issue.

Technically yes. As a side note, GoodSmile has been refining a program to help paint their figures for years so that they can produce more of the high detail/quality figurines they sell. It's gotten good on the granulation their known for.

 

Now to the main topic. 

Had this conversation about the AI generated art winning a few weeks ago at a local FLGS. Seems a friend of a friend had entered and lost to it and had pretty much called it quits on future entries cause what was the point?

 

It was attached to a compliant on the use of sticker decals, but at least those you kind of had to make the art first. 

 

Honestly if your entering into a painting competition, you should be up front on if you just printed a pattern or free handed it. Cause the free hander deserves higher praise for that skill in painting.

 

I'm not against the use of sticker decals or ai art in a person's army. But they do need to stay out of painting competitions cause your suppose to judge on how good the person's painting/modeling skill is. 

[grailkeeper]

 

To make matters worse; Neil did an interview after the fact where he hard-core chugged the AI-bro juice and called all the people criticising him "virgins". It really did not help.

 

Unless they're painting with their hips that doesnt help. 

 

If they are painting with their hips they need to be in a modern art gallery, not Golden Demon. 

[Jings]

I really, really don't see why using an AI-generated backdrop is a big deal at all. 

[phandaal]

 

I can see why people are against AI, especially in a creative competition. I think using it like photoshop for a simple background like that guy did should be ok. Anything involving a model should be absolutely no go- for example using AI and printing it out on transfer paper or as means of making a banner. That being said, having it completely banned doesnt upset me too much

 

Full disclosure my avatar is an AI generated spacemarine version of my old avatar.

 

This is basically my position as well. If someone comes with a model that they converted, painted, based etc., and they have what looks like a generic stock photo of a gulley behind it, that should not be a problem. This guy Neil obviously did not win because his photo of a ravine was created with AI, for example.

 

If someone comes with the Sistine Chapel glued to the back of their model via AI assistance, or their banner is a kid holding a snow globe inhabited with the cast of St. Elsewhere, that should be grounds for removing the mini from consideration.

 

Problem is there cannot be any nuance on the topic. It is almost like politics - there is one right answer and everything else is just different degrees of wrong. You are either against it, or you are a bro-thief dudebro.

 

That being the case, it is probably for the best for GW to just do a blanket ban so people can focus on the important painting stuff, like whether or not the immaculate skink has enough OSL to qualify for a win.

[Matcap86]

 

Technically yes. As a side note, GoodSmile has been refining a program to help paint their figures for years so that they can produce more of the high detail/quality figurines they sell. It's gotten good on the granulation their known for.

 

Now to the main topic. 

Had this conversation about the AI generated art winning a few weeks ago at a local FLGS. Seems a friend of a friend had entered and lost to it and had pretty much called it quits on future entries cause what was the point?

 

It was attached to a compliant on the use of sticker decals, but at least those you kind of had to make the art first. 

 

Honestly if your entering into a painting competition, you should be up front on if you just printed a pattern or free handed it. Cause the free hander deserves higher praise for that skill in painting.

 

I'm not against the use of sticker decals or ai art in a person's army. But they do need to stay out of painting competitions cause your suppose to judge on how good the person's painting/modeling skill is. 

 

Call me an old curmudgeon but using decals on models is older than Warhammer itself. That's as much part of the modelling hobby as any other thing imho.

 

Then also ban 3d printed/digital designed sculpts/parts. Only green stuffed minis allowed. New tools will allow new techniques to evolve and people get upset by them. Lots of people were (and still are) calling airbrushing "cheating" for example. 

 

Are there problems with AI art? Abso-:cuss:ing-lutely. But putting up a few trees which also could've been rendered by taking a photograph and printing it isn't that big a deal imho.

Edited August 20 by Matcap86

[Emperor Ming]

Yep ban AI

 

we all know what happens if we dont!

[MARK0SIAN]

I think Phandaal is right. If the entrants are allowed to include a background that they didn’t paint themselves then I really don’t see what difference it makes whether they used a photo they took themselves, a stock image or an AI generated one.

 

However a blanket ban just makes life easier for everyone and is probably the right call on this. 
 

[Valkyrion]

I want to see this immaculate skink. Immaculate Skink is also a good name for a Harp Rock band, or a type of smokable greenery. 

[darkhorse0607]

The immaculate Skink in question

 

 

[NovemberIX]

AI-bros are about as highly rated as crypto-bros, but I'm not sure I see what the problem with using a generated background is? Does this mean that any background not made by the modeler is banned? what about stock images? or images made by someone else?

 

I mean honestly, image generation is just a tool, just like air brushes and 3d printers.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Good. Shame AI isn't banned outright elsewhere. 

[danodan123]

That Skink is rather, immaculate.

[Remain_Indoors]

 

I really, really don't see why using an AI-generated backdrop is a big deal at all. 

Because it’s not your work. Best case scenario a computer program did it for you. Worst case a computer program did it for you by stealing the artwork of actual artists.