Six years in – your assessment of Adeptus Titanicus

[apologist]

Like the thread for its sister game, I thought it'd be fun to sit down and discuss Adeptus Titanicus as it currently stands. This is a space for discursive thoughts, hopes and ponderings on the game.

 

The game is in a mature state, with no upcoming releases we're aware of, and a largely well-received and reviewed underlying game engine. For competitive terms, internal balance seems good, with multiple options for different builds, strategies and tactics. The rules have received a soft 'v1.5' tweak through the Matched Play guide and the Loyalist and Traitor books, which collectively provide a more balanced and playtested set of options than in the first couple of years, and have patched some of the egregious or abusable options.

 

Through their repackaging under the Legions Imperialis header, there's still a good selection of Titans and Knights easily available, with no obviously missing key models. Cards, upgrades and other accessories are more awkward to get hold of. There is a healthy market of after-market compatible parts, and online list builders etc..

 

For me, I think the game stands in a good place. I'd like to see an official second edition of the game in a couple of years that retains the vast majority of the existing mechanics, but replaces the core book missions and stratagem rules with the streamlined and improved mission rules from the cards and Matched Play guide. 

 

The game could stand to have a couple of new Titan models; perhaps the much-flirted-with Rapier, and perhaps another specialised middleweight chassis like the Warbringer Nemesis. The weapons could be reassessed to re-point or re-stat certain choices in light of the current state of the game. On the Warhound, for example, I'd like to see the Inferno Gun and Turbo Laser Destructor become genuine contender to the Vulkan Megabolter and Plasma Blastgun.

 

I'd like to see the Warmaster and Iconoclast be folded into one Titan; I think hiving off their options between the two was unnecessary and went a long way to hobbling their sales.

 

Some more options available to the non-core Titans, like the Dire Wolf and Warbringer, are less necessary but would be welcome. I'd like to see releases for a Reaver-scale Inferno and Plasma weapon, and for the Warbringer's allowed options to be checked again – while perhaps melee weapons should be kept off the chassis, it'd be nice to see the new Reaver guns, like the Graviton, Vokite etc. options. Likewise, perhaps something like a Conversion Beamer for the Dire Wolf.

 

Other than that, I'm very happy with how Adeptus Titanicus stands.

[DuskRaider]

I love this game… and I mean LOVE this game. The rules for Titanicus are some of the most thoughtful, interesting rule sets I think GW has ever done and they backed it up with lovely models and lore that create an amazing experience when playing the game. 
 

The compendiums and Open Engine rules were a great addition and fixed any of the issues people had, particularly with some Legios who kind of seemed left in the dark compared to others rules-wise. Take Krytos, for example. Their original rule set was clunky and made for a poor game experience when used. The Traitor book elevated the Legio to not only being playable but being fun. 
 

I will admit that I’m pretty disappointed with the state of the game now. It seems as though it was sacrificed on the altar of Imperialis, and that’s a shame. Much like Aeronautica, the game has unique rules and mechanics that cannot be ported over to LI, and it seems as though GW has all but abandoned the system in favor of the new kid on the block.
 

Time will tell, but I fear there will be no future updates or expansion for Titanicus at this point. That’s both good and bad. It’s good because it means the SG staff won’t touch the current system and we can continue to use it in perpetuity with minimal disruption. The bad is that… man, there’s so much more story to be told and campaigns of legend that remain untouched. A lot of Legios and Households that are void of rules, many Titan chassis’ that are unmade and even things like Possessed Titans left on the shelf. 
 

Legions has the potential to be great, but it’s not the same. I hope GW plans on throwing some support behind AT, because there are scores of people currently in possession of the models that have never even attempted to play the game. LI opened the door for a rekindling of the Titanicus flame and thus far it seems as though it’s being left to extinguish itself. 

[Noserenda]

The best game GW produces and its got a significant lead over Warcry, but it really feels like someone senior just never had any faith in the game to give it solid support after the initial (slightly choppy) release window, especially on the model front, despite what seems to have been solid sales given the general lack of availability at times due to it repeatedly selling out! 

Some excellent suggestions Apologist for future developments but it really does feel like the game is on life support now and that makes it tricky to rouse people to play it :( (I know it shouldnt but it does sooo...)

[LameBeard]

I agree that Titanicus is the best-designed wargame I’ve played in a LONG time, GW or otherwise: it really links the mechanics to the beautiful models and the deep lore in a fun and satisfying way. It scales and layers sensibly, it is full of tough choices, the command terminals turn the book-keeping element into a fun resource-management element.

 

In a way I fear a version 2 having changes for changes sake and am happy with the state of the game. I was hoping that GW putting the command terminals in titan boxes would tempt in new players and that would keep us on life support rather than the freezer of some abandoned games. A little balance shake-up on weapon points wouldn’t hurt.

 

For new releases I think GW missed a trick not giving us “chaosified” armour plates for late heresy look: some existing players would start a whole new Legio if they got released, and GW could even hint at a WYSIWYG direction for some of the corrupted engine updates to prompt more.

 

This also gives GW the option then to sell us a “Titanicus Battles in the 40k era” supplement, or even start to explore the Scouring, which again, some players want. They are leaving money on the table, I guess they think they have better opportunities elsewhere.

 

[Deschenus Maximus]

I think that in terms of rules, Titanicus is in a pretty good spot – so much so that I’d be happy if we never got another major update. I would be glad if GW threw us an occasional bone by releasing a new weapon once in a while (or dare I say it – a new plastic sprue!) but other than that I prefer they leave AT alone given that there is a high likelihood a new version of the game would end up worse.

 

IF I could make some tweaks, I think I would mostly adjust the points costs of some of the weapons as well as almost all of the Knights (Acastus still too cheap, others mostly too expensive). I would also probably tweak the rules for moving over terrain to remove the silliness of a 6” Warlord being able to move over a 5” building. I’d also likely pare down the Stratagems to a more easily digestible number and turn the upgrade ones into upgrades you buy with points.

 

Now, as far as Titanicus is concerned in terms of community, I am not sure what GW could do at this point. Outside of rerelasing the game, I don't think there's much they could do to increase the amount of people playing the game. The only thing I can think of is to host events and write articles for WarCom frequently. I wouldn't hate it if they came up with solo play rules like they apparently are doing for Kill Team 3rd edition.

[LameBeard]

Well there must be some kind of community in the UK because I just got sent an advert for this: https://www.lgtpresents.co.uk/adeptus-titanicus

I’ve never been to any Warhammer events full stop, but I think this is a pretty shrewd idea, a smaller event tacked on to a bigger one?

[DuskRaider]

 

Well there must be some kind of community in the UK because I just got sent an advert for this: https://www.lgtpresents.co.uk/adeptus-titanicus

I’ve never been to any Warhammer events full stop, but I think this is a pretty shrewd idea, a smaller event tacked on to a bigger one?

You know, this does make me wonder… has anyone ever attempted to do a Heresy Campaign Event compiling all of the 30K games we have into a weekend narrative or something? We have 30K on almost every scale at this point (hopefully with 30K BFG coming), it would be awesome to see it all come together and tell a story on each one with the whole lot working toward an end goal. 

[LameBeard]

 

You know, this does make me wonder… has anyone ever attempted to do a Heresy Campaign Event compiling all of the 30K games we have into a weekend narrative or something? We have 30K on almost every scale at this point (hopefully with 30K BFG coming), it would be awesome to see it all come together and tell a story on each one with the whole lot working toward an end goal. 

Great idea. And BFG still exists in some form with the 3d printing guys so you could do this, something at every scale. @DuskRaider, be the change you want to see in the World

[DuskRaider]

 

Great idea. And BFG still exists in some form with the 3d printing guys so you could do this, something at every scale. @DuskRaider, be the change you want to see in the World

I’ve recently found some great 30K BFG rules, I just have to find some models. I remember at one point someone had made models of all the Gloriana-Class Ships for the Legions but that was quite some time ago. 
 

Here’s the link.

 

I haven’t played BFG in something like 15 years. 

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

You know, this does make me wonder… has anyone ever attempted to do a Heresy Campaign Event compiling all of the 30K games we have into a weekend narrative or something? We have 30K on almost every scale at this point (hopefully with 30K BFG coming), it would be awesome to see it all come together and tell a story on each one with the whole lot working toward an end goal. 

 

I've never done it but I've thought about it. Makes perfect sense and would be awesome!

[Interrogator Stobz]

Before LI, our club did an HH Apocalypse level game on 4 joined tables, whilst simultaneously we played several huge AT games. Every time an engine got killed, and exploded, we yelled it and all the 28mm scale dudes on the other table had to either take morale or damage.

I can't remember the deets, but it was an awesome weekend. 

 

I fully agree with LB, we need a bit of Chaosification to the minis.

And whilst we're at it, make v2.0 in the 40k Era with Xenos too.

[Xenith]

 

GW missed a trick not giving us “chaosified” armour plates for late heresy look:

 

That's a great idea, and probably a single sprue?

 

Happy with the game now, but some weapon options could do with a balance pass, to make the vast array of warhound weapons as good as the VMB/Plasma, either VMB going up to 15/20 or plasma going to 1 shot, slightly longer range or reduced LR penalties on lasers etc.

[Mandragola]

I'm not going to shock anyone by saying I think the game is great. It's my favourite GW game and way ahead of most of the others. At the GHO a while back I was playing Heresy but felt very envious of the few AT players.

 

I do have a few negatives though. Honestly, I've now got to a point where I've played AT a lot and I've pretty much done or seen the things that can happen in a game. I'd like to see just a few more meaningfully different units added to the game, not just more resin guns and knights, except perhaps new arm options for Reavers and Warbringers, which have really been left out on t hat front for some reason.

 

I don't know if the models added to the game since the original release have actually been all that helpful. I still mostly use Warlords, Reavers and Warhounds. Arguably that's how it should be as they're the most common engines in the fluff, but it's more that the other options are a bit less viable somehow. I don't enjoy the RNG of direhounds. Warbringers need help against shields and are stuck with arm weapons that want to be close while their main guns want to be far away. Warmasters only really come into their own in games that are kind of already too big.

 

I'd love a new edition or a different kind of shake up, like Xenos engines or maybe a game mode where you fought different stuff - maybe assaulting fortresses or something I don't know. I want to be surprised a bit more I think.

[DuskRaider]

The more I think about it and the more time goes by, the more I’m receptive to Xenos being added to the game. Mind you, I’m only thinking Heresy Era threats, but I think the addition of Eldar and Orks would give the game a lot more character. I know there’s a fanmade Eldar rule set for AT and it’s surprisingly good and seems to be balanced. I watched a Battle Report over on Tabletop Standard’s Patreon and it was pretty good.
 

I’ve been looking for an Ork equivalent, but no luck yet, though I believe I read somewhere that the same folks who made the Eldar rules made Ork rules as well. 

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

I'm not going to shock anyone by saying I think the game is great. It's my favourite GW game and way ahead of most of the others. At the GHO a while back I was playing Heresy but felt very envious of the few AT players.

 

I do have a few negatives though. Honestly, I've now got to a point where I've played AT a lot and I've pretty much done or seen the things that can happen in a game. I'd like to see just a few more meaningfully different units added to the game, not just more resin guns and knights, except perhaps new arm options for Reavers and Warbringers, which have really been left out on t hat front for some reason.

 

I don't know if the models added to the game since the original release have actually been all that helpful. I still mostly use Warlords, Reavers and Warhounds. Arguably that's how it should be as they're the most common engines in the fluff, but it's more that the other options are a bit less viable somehow. I don't enjoy the RNG of direhounds. Warbringers need help against shields and are stuck with arm weapons that want to be close while their main guns want to be far away. Warmasters only really come into their own in games that are kind of already too big.

 

I'd love a new edition or a different kind of shake up, like Xenos engines or maybe a game mode where you fought different stuff - maybe assaulting fortresses or something I don't know. I want to be surprised a bit more I think.

 

I wish Reavers and Warbringers had some sort of arm-mounted Apoc launcher or heavy swarmer. The Warbringer could also do with being allowed to carry a Sunfury on its roof.

[Mandragola]

 

 

I wish Reavers and Warbringers had some sort of arm-mounted Apoc launcher or heavy swarmer. The Warbringer could also do with being allowed to carry a Sunfury on its roof.

Yeah I find the Warbringer pretty frustrating. It's tough to find a good combo if arm and roof weapon. Volcano cannons are the only decent ranged arm weapon but they heat it up and aren't really all that great. It's almost funny that Warhounds got arm missile pods before Warbringers and Reavers.

 

That said, Reavers are fine. More options would be nice but they clearly work fine as it is.

 

In terms of time period, I quite like that AT could arguably be happening in any 30 or 40k without looking especially different. I guess you'd have more mutations in 40k. But anyway Eldar and Orks have always been around.

 

I think the specialist games guys like having their own time period to play with. It allows them to justify the weirdness of not letting people use their 30k stuff in 40k. That in turn seems to let them keep their stuff in its own column on some internal spreadsheet, which apparently matters.

[DuskRaider]

I’m actually fine with the Reaver only getting carapace options. They’re a nice cherry on top (no pun intended), they often times compliment whatever you have them outfitted for, and they have a complete 360 field of vision. I do have to agree with the Warbringer sentiment, however. I’ve had a couple for a few years now and as much as I say I’m going to try and fit one into a Maniple, I never do. I just can’t come up with a good reason to use one over a Reaver or a Warlord, especially when either of those can do the job of a Warbringer better IMO. I have considered the Maniple where it uses the Warhounds’ LoS, though… that could come in handy. 

[Noserenda]

Xenos are so exciting to me because when they initially created the various species titans they made them work very differently from the ground up, adding just one set would radically shake up the game in a good way. I think theyve (Well James H) mentioned the Orks and Eldar had already been sketched out when they did the rest of the game, tidy that up, give us some kick ass modern updates and itll be great.

Id assume great Crusade as a setting? But hell i have no idea where they draw the arbitrary lines.

[Xenith]

 

the Orks and Eldar had already been sketched out when they did the rest of the game

 

Yea, that would be a great expansion, one faster and weaker than the imperium, the other slower and tougher. I've still not played enough to be bored of it yet, but I understand how that would come about. I think the challenge/fun there would be in mission design, or reinforcing the narrative aspect - heroic last stands, full retreats, 10 turn warhounds vs warlords etc as opposed to the pitched battles we normall see.

[apologist]

I agree with the sentiments above that Reavers are fine as-is, but that some additional weapon options wouldn't hurt, and would give the game a nice shot in the arm.

Old editions weren't so proscriptive about which weapons could be taken by which chassis, so instead of having Warhound, Reaver, Warlord etc. weapons, you had light, medium and heavy options. I'm surprised that the new version didn't stick with this, as it would have made in-between Titans like the Warbringer much easier to integrate, and future-proofed for expansion. No need for special cards or lists of allowable options: just say 'two medium on the arms and one heavy on the carapace', with any exceptions (like no melee) in a shorter list. 

 

Taking this a bit further, here are some thoughts on relatively conventional weapons (i.e. not the weird stuff like Fire Control Towers and Corvus Assault Pods) from previous editions* that are conspicuously absent. Pics can be seen on the awesome Stuff of Legends websites: Warlord and Reaver. As an aside, some of the old weapons have been re-envisioned – the Trident, for example, is a proto Ursus claw; while the Warlord-only Plasma Cannon is a Sunfury.

 

Warhound – This has all the old weapons available for it, plus a swathe more. I think that the Warhound is in a great place, personally.

Reaver – Well-served in the carapace department, it's notable there's no Plasma Blastgun or Inferno Gun available for arms or carapace. I'd also like to see the Reaver get Apocalypse Missile Launchers for the arms, allowing you to recreate the cool artillery Titans from old editions. (And unrelated to weapons, I'd dearly love to see some proper head variants.)

Warlord – Almost all of the weapons from the original plastic sprue are available in their original or revised form except for the close-in Chainfist and Laser Burner, and the Plasma Destructor. From the metal variants, the Barrage Missile Launcher could be a cool addition, and there are a number of other melee weapons that are absent: the Wrecker, Chaos Energy Whip, Power Ram, Battle Claw and Power Saw.
 

Reaver

• I'd love to see Reaver/Warlord-scale Inferno Guns. It's a crying shame that the only template weapon in the game is so situational and points-heavy that it's barely used; and introducing a larger version would be an opportunity to sort out some of its shortcomings; however that it achieved. 
• Likewise I'd like to see the Plasma Blastgun available to the Reaver. (The Blastgun could do with a points bump for both Warhound and Reaver, I feel.)
• The Chaos Energy Whip would be a very fitting addition to the Reaver's arsenal, a long-range (4in or so) melee option with lots of low strength attacks and Shieldbane.

Warlord

• The Warlord is the one that I think would most benefit from some additional options. I don't know whether it was designed purely as a gunboat, but it seems a shame that this iconic Titan doesn't have decent options for melee. 
  • In terms of long-range weapons I'd like to see the Barrage Missile Launcher re-appear as a large blast alternative to the Apocalypse Missile Launchers. Not only would this be another option for Warlords, but it would also be cool for Warmasters and Warbringers.
  • A proper area-of-effect super-draining Plasma Destructor should be available to the Warlord, too. Perhaps 2 shots, small blasts, Draining and Maximal Fire?
  • I'd like to see a Melta Cannon equivalent for the Warlord.
  • I'd like to introduce a Warlord-sized Chainfist as an offensive close combat weapon, simply iterating from the Reaver version in the same way as the fist. Immediately this is a better option than the fist, with multiple attacks making up for the Warlord's low WS, and an increase in S over the Reaver version making it a reliable threat to most things.
  • The Arioch Titan Power Claw is an awesome-looking weapon, but far from desirable. Besides the Vulcan Megabolter being merely ornamental, the Concussive rule makes it unreliable both offensively (where you risk knocking the enemy out of melee range) and defensively (as a deterrent). 
    • Related, I'd also like to rename the Arioch Titan Power Claw to Arioch Titan Power Fist, to allow a proper grappling Battle Claw to be introduced: one that locks the opponent in place.
  • More defensively, I'd love to see the Power Ram make a return; with a twist on the Concussive that always knocks the opponent away, and has a risk of toppling it.
  • The big ol' ball and chain Wrecker is such a visually appealing weapon that I'm startled we haven't seen it before. Not entirely sure how it could work, but something like a long-ranged (4in or so) melee might be a fun niche; one that compensates for the Warlord's low speed. Perhaps it could also have an all-round arc, allowing it to protect the Titan's rear?
  • Finally, the oft-forgotten Las-Burner is an option that I'd particularly like to see. This was a strange weapon; a sort of melee laser gun. The closest thing I can think of in modern 40k is a lascutter. Having a weapon that mixed short-range fire with a melee option is an interesting one, and one that I think would be attractive to players as a way to ensure your high-investment chassis is as versatile as possible.

Warbringer Nemesis

• A cool but under-utilised Titan owing to the difficulty in finding complementary weapons, I'd like to see greater options available to the Warbringer Nemesis; though I think I'd err on the side of keeping it as a dedicated artillery Titan by sticking with the weapons that have high-strength and low number of shots.
• The Barrage Missile Launcher and Plasma Destructor outline above would be good options, and I think the Conversion Beam Extirpator and Graviton Ruinator, would be nice as options. The other Warlord arm weapons don't strike me as quite as fitting, though a Macro-Gatling, Volkite or Sunfury would be awesome.
• Arm-wise, I think this should have the full gamut of ranged Reaver weapons; including the suggested Plasma Blastguns, Inferno etc.

Edited August 27 by apologist

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

 

Warbringer Nemesis

• A cool but under-utilised Titan owing to the difficulty in finding complementary weapons, I'd like to see greater options available to the Warbringer Nemesis; though I think I'd err on the side of keeping it as a dedicated artillery Titan by sticking with the weapons that have high-strength and low number of shots.

 

I quite like most of your suggestions but while I understand the sentiment, we all know ideally every Titan should be able to strip shields for itself, so keeping the Warbringer as a pure high strength low volume artillery platform means it will likely continue to be somewhat less popular than the other platforms. I really think you could fix its issues while retaining the fire support function by just allowing it to take apoc launcher arms.

[malika666]

I feel AT18 had so much more potential. More Titan and Knight types, more interchangeability of weapons, maybe even do different weapon parts. Not to mention Chaos Titans. Perhaps AT18 could at a certain point be revived by GW, even though I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

[apologist]

Thanks for the feedback – and reading back, I realise I haven’t made myself very clear. I mean that the carapace gun should be restricted to the high S low dice weapons, but that the arms should have the full gamut of the Reaver arms: I think we’re on the same page. 
 

Certainly Apocalypse launchers on the arms for both Reavers and Warbringer Nemesis would be awesome – and lots of precedent for the former in old editions of Epic.

+++

 

On the Warmaster/Iconoclast, I think it was a dreadful idea for GW to separate them and not allow interchangeable weapons. I’d love to see them merged (ideally keeping the Iconoclast name as the primary, because there are far too many ‘War-‘ names for Titans as is). I’d also like to see some new guns for ‘em, though precisely what they should be, I don’t know.

 

+++
 

… and at some point, I’d like to see the Carnivore and Rapier Titans mentioned here and there.

[Ulfast]

Totally agree that xenos should be added and always felt it was a miss from GW. I´m a bit worried that Titanicus could be going away but we will see what happends.

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Totally agree that xenos should be added and always felt it was a miss from GW. I´m a bit worried that Titanicus could be going away but we will see what happends.

Don’t think AT will go away but it’s unlikely we’ll get any major support like a new book. The amount of effort needed on GW’s part to keep the game alive is minimal so no reason to can it.