New BA list of units spoted

[Orange Knight]

I wouldn't be too surprised if, at some point in the future, GW released a new Redemptor chassis Librarian Dreadnought that is available to all chapters.

 

I don't know if it's needed, but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Wormwoods]

Y'know, we could have kept a few more dreads and 'X character with jump pack' if these lists weren't all filled with named characters.

 

...I mean, probably not, but still. If I'm choosing between Lemartes or a chapter specific Dread that seems like a no-brainer. One has to assume there's more Librarian Dreads out in the galaxy among all the BA successors than Lemartes's.  

[Dark Shepherd]

 

It's a one kit for 3 units design. Since DC dread updated and Furioso absorbed, to retire lib dread is an easy decision for GW.

 

Space Wolves players sweating.

TBF we are a hairy bunch and its summer so of course we're sweating :)

 

Bjorn's revered status will hopefully save us some unique dreads in some form

[Noserenda]

Yeah Librarian dreadnoughts never made any sense outside of the raw, unstoppable hubris of the Great crusade era KSons. Librarians need iron wills to keep their powers in check, and not explode into a warp portal at worst case, meanwhile internment in a dreadnought famously not great for the psyche... Loyalists go a bit senile even when well looked after and frequently chucked in stasis and the Chaos ones are famously utterly bat:cuss: insane. Its not good for your mental health! 

So yeah, Psychic dreadnoughts are a ticking time bomb, though it is still sucky to lose options, even if they make no goddamn sense :P 

I could see Bjorn being transferred into a modern dreadnought? Or possibly a chapter specific redemptor or something depending on how they handle chapter specific primaris for the Space wolves.

Edited August 22 by Noserenda

[Cleon]

Unfortunately I think this is it for me for playing 40k for the foreseeable, it was already getting hard to convince people to play 40k instead of another game as the 8th, 9th, 10th paradigm took the game further from what we grew up with and it doesn't feel worth the effort anymore, it's easier to get a game of Old World, LI or Horus Heresy and those game designers don't seem to  be committed to invalidating our collections.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

 

 

I honestly think it's such a "Matt Ward" thing (ie from that period, not a specific dig at Ward) and ive never found it a satisfactory inclusion in the codex or fluff (especially not as a flying psychic dreadnought wielding its mighty "blood fist"!). Better it is gone, in my opinion - as it just represented the same awkward exceptionalism (+ commercial need for new models) as other unique chapter vehicle additions of the 5th/6th era - rather than good worldbuilding.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. I am much more salty about the loss of Furioso, one of our oldest units, and the inevitable loss of Baal Pred, since now everyone is able to have those via Brutalis and Gladiator. I would very much prefer those two to stay as our unique options than have DC Captains. Personally, from all Matt Ward's 5th ed additions, the one i liked the most were ranged special weapons for Assault Squad - a small tweak making a base unit operate differently on the tabletop.

[Karhedron]

Jump Death Company are still looking pretty effective. A 10-man squad can include 3 Fists, 2 Eviscerators, 2 plasma pistols and 3 Inferno pistols. Not quite the 10 PF+IP terror of the Index version but I think we all knew that was never going to last. Even in non-DC lists, I think 10 DC + Lemartes is still going to be a good pick.

Edited August 22 by Karhedron

[Nagashsnee]

Librarian dreadnought for me were great. The issue was that they were made to be something special. FW had the right idea with the chaplain dreadnought.  A nice cool model with minimal rules that relies almost completely on what it represents.

 

I had always hoped for a generic librarian kit. Same with a chaplain dreadnought and maybe even a techmarine dread. They dont need pages of special rules.  They could all just play as dreadnoughts. With a simple 'librarian dreadnought +20 points 5+ inva' or something to show their little differences. 

 

Hopefully they put out a primaris librarian dread at some point. 

 

 

[Orange Knight]

 

Unfortunately I think this is it for me for playing 40k for the foreseeable, it was already getting hard to convince people to play 40k instead of another game as the 8th, 9th, 10th paradigm took the game further from what we grew up with and it doesn't feel worth the effort anymore, it's easier to get a game of Old World, LI or Horus Heresy and those game designers don't seem to  be committed to invalidating our collections.

 

What has turned you away so much? The rules shown are really solid and the chapter still has a lot of unique units and options. I expect BA will continue to be the best performing chapter.

 

The transition from the old Marines to Primaris hasn't included everything, but it kept the majority of the key units and characters.

[FarFromSam]

When the dread libby came on the scene I remember being confused about why it was BA exclusive in lore and tabletop.  And, up until this point, models were indefinitely supported which could be inferred that it may stay BA unique forever.  Which,  again,  why?

 

Now, that models have an expiration date,  and nothing is sacred, we have to ask,  Which is worse?  

 

Jesus,  are we going to unironically going to see sanguinius on the 40k table top soon.  I feel for you BA brothers.  So many great dreads built, converted,  painted,  and now thrown away.   :cuss:.

Edited August 22 by FarFromSam

[Rhavien]

 

Jump Death Company are still looking pretty effective. A 10-man squad can include 3 Fists, 2 Eviscerators, 2 plasma pistols and 3 Inferno pistols. Not quite the 10 PF+IP terror of the Index version but I think we all knew that was never going to last. Even in non-DC lists, I think 10 DC + Lemartes is still going to be a good pick.

Sure about three inferno pistols? I only see 1 per 5? But still quite cool. I must confess I wasn't even convinced that jump DC can take Eviscerators at all. 

Guess DC stays quite lethal. Hell yeah 

[Karhedron]

 

Sure about three inferno pistols? I only see 1 per 5? But still quite cool. I must confess I wasn't even convinced that jump DC can take Eviscerators at all. 

Guess DC stays quite lethal. Hell yeah 

 

You are right, 2 plasma and 2 Inferno in a 10-man squad. I must have miscounted somewhere.

[Cleon]

 

 

What has turned you away so much? The rules shown are really solid and the chapter still has a lot of unique units and options. I expect BA will continue to be the best performing chapter.

 

The transition from the old Marines to Primaris hasn't included everything, but it kept the majority of the key units and characters.

Between Command points and stratagems then unit special rules and detachment blag all taking the game from 'rules to simulate a battle' where you care about cover, scenery, terrain more into a magic the gathering style 'I build my combos and lists then play the rules at each other', tank rules where you can fire the left sponson out the right side of the hull annoying many of us and the 'build the models exactly as per the box, but actually there's only one or two options that aren't just self sabotage because theres no points', we've been haemorrhaging players and enthusiasm for a while. We're all at life stages where we only have time for 2-3 games a month and I've really been the one who keeps saying 'how about 40k?' as it competes for table time against other games that give us better tabletop experiences and haven't changed so much of the rules/points every few months. With this release just not jiving with me at all and then the army lists getting more prescriptive with fewer options even pretending to be balanced (I lost probably 2000 points to legends or invalid loadouts) I just can't be bothered to push for it anymore. I was hoping that I'd see some great new Blood Angel models and they'd fire back up the enthusiasm that had been stalling, but they didn't do it for me.

 

 

[Dark Legionnare]

 

Between Command points and stratagems then unit special rules and detachment blag all taking the game from 'rules to simulate a battle' where you care about cover, scenery, terrain more into a magic the gathering style 'I build my combos and lists then play the rules at each other', tank rules where you can fire the left sponson out the right side of the hull annoying many of us and the 'build the models exactly as per the box, but actually there's only one or two options that aren't just self sabotage because theres no points', we've been haemorrhaging players and enthusiasm for a while. We're all at life stages where we only have time for 2-3 games a month and I've really been the one who keeps saying 'how about 40k?' as it competes for table time against other games that give us better tabletop experiences and haven't changed so much of the rules/points every few months. With this release just not jiving with me at all and then the army lists getting more prescriptive with fewer options even pretending to be balanced (I lost probably 2000 points to legends or invalid loadouts) I just can't be bothered to push for it anymore. I was hoping that I'd see some great new Blood Angel models and they'd fire back up the enthusiasm that had been stalling, but they didn't do it for me.

 

 

Yeah, I feel for you, brother. Everything you mentioned is why I've gone so hard on "7th edition with formations and decurions stripped out, just 'combined arms' (or faction specific like ork tide)" in our group. Lets old collections live on, and new play too.

 

We've made things like intercessors just their tactical/assault marine equivalents and done some bang-on agreeable rules and points for primaris stuff that doesn't transfer over 1to1 (hellblasters just being plasma gun cost per marine, heavy intercessors having T5 and 2W for 75% nore than a normal tac, etc...) and it's been making old and new players alike very happy. Also, adapting "new" stuff like achilles to cults and stuff is simple enough by paying attention to equivalent wargear of other units, etc...

 

I offer that tidbit in case it can help save your group! The brainstorming is also good group-bonding.

Edited August 22 by Dark Legionnare

[Indy Techwisp]

 

Am I the only one that sees no point in having 2 separate entries for ground Death Company Marines? They could have been combined into one.

 

Technically speaking they used to be 1 unit.

The old "Death Company Intercessors" had both options in the unit.

 

However, now that they've split them, the Bolt Rifle DC Marines have a new ability to better emphasise their role as an aggressive Bolter squad rather than having to share the Melee centric ability of the Assault DC Marines.

[Orange Knight]

 

Between Command points and stratagems then unit special rules and detachment blag all taking the game from 'rules to simulate a battle' where you care about cover, scenery, terrain more into a magic the gathering style 'I build my combos and lists then play the rules at each other', tank rules where you can fire the left sponson out the right side of the hull annoying many of us and the 'build the models exactly as per the box, but actually there's only one or two options that aren't just self sabotage because theres no points', we've been haemorrhaging players and enthusiasm for a while. We're all at life stages where we only have time for 2-3 games a month and I've really been the one who keeps saying 'how about 40k?' as it competes for table time against other games that give us better tabletop experiences and haven't changed so much of the rules/points every few months. With this release just not jiving with me at all and then the army lists getting more prescriptive with fewer options even pretending to be balanced (I lost probably 2000 points to legends or invalid loadouts) I just can't be bothered to push for it anymore. I was hoping that I'd see some great new Blood Angel models and they'd fire back up the enthusiasm that had been stalling, but they didn't do it for me.

 

 

 

Communities go through this periodically. It happens everywhere, and interest in aspects of the hobby rise and fall with time.

 

What you have outlined exists in the Horus Heresy, and that game is supported very well. If you want to capture the feel of 7th, that game system might be for you.

 

I invested in a massive Heresy army, but my problem is the opposite - no one wants to play with those rules in my local scene. At least I have 5k points of a fully painted HH army that I can use if the opportunity arises.

[Blindhamster]

So.. what does the blood angel captain datasheet (not the death company one) actually do? Just different wargear? Assume it doesn’t invalidate the standard captain one? If the actual rule on it is standard, it feels like it would be better to have the BA captain just be extra wargear options on the base captain 

[DemonGSides]

They should've just added Inferno Pistol to the regular Captain datasheet.

Same issue as the DC Cap.  The real killer is I wanted to run the DC cap with Inferno Pistol and Thunder Hammer (Since I think that'd be cool to see), and you can't!  The Captain datasheet allows it, but DC Cap is based off of BA Cap model, so it has reduced options (Same as BA Cap; only options are those in the BA Captain kit).

SO very, very stupid.

[Blindhamster]

Has the base BA captain datasheet leaked? I’ve seen the death company one.

 

i guess you could model the DC one with hammer and say it’s a fist 

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

Wholeheartedly agree. I am much more salty about the loss of Furioso, one of our oldest units, and the inevitable loss of Baal Pred, since now everyone is able to have those via Brutalis and Gladiator. I would very much prefer those two to stay as our unique options than have DC Captains. Personally, from all Matt Ward's 5th ed additions, the one i liked the most were ranged special weapons for Assault Squad - a small tweak making a base unit operate differently on the tabletop.

Special Weapons in Assault Squads was a mistake, actually. It took away from the primary role of Tactical Marines due to the fact that you'd rather have more Chainsword attacks vs Bolters anyway, even in 5th Edition. 

[HeadlessCross]

 

Between Command points and stratagems then unit special rules and detachment blag all taking the game from 'rules to simulate a battle' where you care about cover, scenery, terrain more into a magic the gathering style 'I build my combos 

 

 

See this is where I stopped reading. 

 

40k was ALWAYS about combos, even since 3rd. That there's simply more to add with Strats just makes you think it wasn't for some reason. 

People that think there weren't such combos are the same people that think Necrons in 3rd are a slow moving army. Just because you didn't want to build a particular way doesn't mean it wasn't there. 

[Evil Eye]

Another Castraferrum moved to the reliquary. Pretty depressing, honestly. Even in universe, given that the Redemptor suffers from a high burnout rate for the interred, it seems miserable.

[Alternis]

 

Has the base BA captain datasheet leaked? I’ve seen the death company one.

 

i guess you could model the DC one with hammer and say it’s a fist 

If you’re on Facebook you can essentially see it all if you know where to look

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

 

Has the base BA captain datasheet leaked? I’ve seen the death company one.

 

i guess you could model the DC one with hammer and say it’s a fist 

 

Edited August 22 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[DemonGSides]

I would've preferred losing Finest Hour and make him SOMETHING special instead of just "Limited option Captain, but one option is Inferno Pistol".

Like, whoever is making these decisions needs to be spoken to.  This whole supplement is just downright confusing; good and flavorful detatchment rules, absolute :cuss: decisions in datasheet rules, and just phoned in model choices.  Very very annoying.

Just gotta keep reassuring myself that the good detatchment stuff is enough to make me happy for the BA.  Might get all the stuff and just hope future rules are more coherent.