Final thoughts an impressions - let’s have some hope

[Blindhamster]

So, a core theme of blood angels is hope. But also rage.

 

I thought, now that we have seen most of the codex, and all the miniatures, a bit of a thread to air a thing we don’t like and then some good things might be healthy for us. Human nature is to focus on the negatives, which is totally fine, and nobody is ever going to be 100% pleased but for the wellbeing of our community (the best one on B&C) I thought it might be good to have a thread focused on some positives.

 

so the rules:

- pick the one thing you are most unhappy about, can be literally anything, a rule, a model, the marketing, whatever. Explain how your change it, in detail.

- pick three things you are most happy about, same stipulations as above.

- let’s not get into big debates, we all have formulated opinions and they aren’t likely to change much at this point. But some discussion is good, just let’s avoid the back and forth debating people’s negatives or positives.

[Blindhamster]

For me

 

the one thing I like least:

the captain datasheet. As it is, it’s just wasted space and they should have just given the two new weapons to the base captain datasheet. If I were changing things I would:

- give him a 2+ save base to represent his artificer armour that is modelled on and literally can’t be reptesented

- change finest hour for something uniquely blood angel themed. As for what… probably still a melee skill thing, I actually think giving his unit fights first or something else speed related would have been cool and thematic.

 

what did I like most:

- jump pack death company rules, they feel good and balanced without being broken and dumb like we had in the index. It’s a solid set of options honestly. 
- the captain model, easily one of the coolest non special character marine models in the game. I really love the armour, which admittedly does make the lack of rule support for it more annoying.

- the thematic rules of all the detachments, especially the liberation task force, I LOVE that they found a way to make the red thirst something you can give into and have some negatives, the importance of chaplains to the army is such a nice nod to the lore, though I think for the red thirst rules it should have been a nearby sanguinary priest instead of chaplain.

 

overall, there’s plenty of little niggles about the rules and models that I have, but overall I’m still looking forward to building and playing!

[Karhedron]

One thing I like least

Upgrade sprue was a massive disappointment. All shoulder pads and screaming heads, not at all what I was hoping for.

 

What I like

1. The new detachments capture all our archetypes well with choppy, jumpy and DC. Also we have some options for Advance and Charge which players have been asking requesting for a long time.
2. The new Captain and Priest kits are some of the nicest Characters ever.
3. Several Characters have got buffs of various degrees. I am looking forward to trying out Lone Op Mephtiston.

[Rhavien]

Great thread! I was about to start something similar, but you got me first @Blindhamster 

 

One thing I like least

DC Dread Specialrule. So they took away our three beloved and specific box dreads and replace it with a DC brutalis, but then they mess up the rule. Give him the old DC Dread rule, maybe capped to one extra fighty or shooty per enemy turn. 

 

What I like

 

LAG detachment looks great. Looking forward to use the new rules. 

 

Tweaks to datasheets. Some things have gotten better, like Mephiston, Astorath, Dante, Baal Pred and I really appreciate

 

New character models. I really like all four of them. 

[Paladin777]

FOR MODELS:
What I like least: probably how lazy the DC and SG feel, especially considerinf how amazing the previous kits were. The upgrade sprue was pretty underwhelming too. The loss of our bespoke Dreads also kinda sucks. 

 

What I like most: the characters in general are pretty cool. I'll definitely have to get Astorath! I think he looks freakin' sick!

 

FOR RULES:

What I like least: I'm gonna have to echo Blindhamster and say the captain rules, for the same reasons. I also think the DC captain could have easily been an enhancement instead of 2 bespoke datasheets that the same, barring special rules. 
 

What I liked most: Honestly the detachment rules seem very fun, flavorful, and look like they can pack a wallop if pointed correctly. The DC rules are nowhere near as bad as I feared they would be. I kinda like them, and I'm glad I can finally model my DC a way that's reasonably future-proof. Though I will definitely be using hammers in place of evisorators!

Edited August 23 by Paladin777

[Indy Techwisp]

Hi!

What I like the Least:

I just finished kitbashing a Primaris Jump Chaplain less than a day before the new Lemartes Model was revealed, something I had stopped holding off on doing on the assumption that if BA were gonna get a Jump Chaplain model of any stripe, we would've seen it already.

 

What I like the Most:

BA look like they'll be more fun to play against now than with the Index alone.

The option for DC marines of all Stripes to take an Eviscerator was unexpected, since none of the kits that Build DC marines had one I'd have expected that option to go away.

DC Jump Captain looks like the Smashiest Smash Captain in 10th so far and I'm excited to see how they perform in games.

[Blindhamster]

 

I just finished kitbashing a Primaris Jump Chaplain less than a day before the new Lemartes Model was revealed, something I had stopped holding off on doing on the assumption that if BA were gonna get a Jump Chaplain model of any stripe, we would've seen it already.

Oof sorry to hear that, make sure you post yours anyway, I'm sure it'll be awesome. Plus it feels like we actually have a reason to use a reasonable number of chaplains with a few of our rules!

[Indy Techwisp]

 

Oof sorry to hear that, make sure you post yours anyway, I'm sure it'll be awesome. Plus it feels like we actually have a reason to use a reasonable number of chaplains with a few of our rules!

 

I'll post it once it's painted (which will probably be a while off, tbh), but they'll be in the White Scars forum unfortunately.

[DemonGSides]

Yeah I'm ravenous for another Jump Chaplain. I've got the FB BA one that is thankfully posed such that he feels in scale even if he technically isn't.

 

Probably try to make something out of the second one I have. 

[Sugarlessllama]

Dislike: SP losing jump pack. Lame.

 

Like: 

1. I like how the detachments feel. I'm really excited to run all of them to be honest. 
2. I like the look of the new models. 
3. Hot Take! I like the new SG models. After assembling SG in their current form, I am glad to not fiddle with those wings again. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Least liked

DC detachment.

id completely change it.

 

1. detachment rule: over charged engines

units with the <vehicle> keyword except walkers can choose to automatically advance 6”. (Or +2” to advance roll if that’s too much.)

2.  An explosion strat, something like if a vehicle used its detachment rule to advance in the turn it is destroyed or the turn before it is destroyed it explodes on a 5+ (or something like that.)

3. If a transport is destroyed with models inside they may disembark without taking a desperate escape test. Strat, or something like that.

[Brother Raul]

Internet is full of negativity so you have to divide everything by 2. Also important to note at least we have new units ECT unlike some factions who rarely get anything.

 

Good to finally have some clear air with codex details ECT locked in.

 

Positives;

-Baal predator survived.

-Mephiston Model is awesome and so is his rules.

-Rules basically better than index by a long way.

-Rules look more fun and more thematic too.

-Fuss about the models has died down. People have a right to be disappointed over legitimate concerns or disappointed but it was a pile in. Blood angels players were the only opinions that mattered and there were plenty of other factions' players heaping in.

-10th edition is actually fun and we now know exactly were we stand.

-The DC dread got it's chasis upgraded.

-not many irrelevant units now. Sanguinary Guard is distinct from DC now where as in most editions they were either better or worse.

 

Regarding negativity, I think most things that were disappointing were because of the direction that the company has headed in and not particularly the details of that direction.

 

There's a lot to be positive about and being disappointed about a sculp is not the end of the world. I am a farmer, I just fix the problem and move on and $100 AUD later I am happy with the SG I'll make in the end but stand by

 

[Blindhamster]

 

Least liked

DC detachment.

id completely change it.

 

1. detachment rule: over charged engines

units with the <vehicle> keyword except walkers can choose to automatically advance 6”. (Or +2” to advance roll if that’s too much.)

2.  An explosion strat, something like if a vehicle used its detachment rule to advance in the turn it is destroyed or the turn before it is destroyed it explodes on a 5+ (or something like that.)

3. If a transport is destroyed with models inside they may disembark without taking a desperate escape test. Strat, or something like that.

you;'re forgetting the thread rules. Where's the likes :P

[Ash]

 

One thing i'm unhappy about?  

Death Company Dreads!  What a disappointment  in modelling and rules.  

I'm pretty much resigned to running them as a Brutalis dread.  Over costed and lost their rolling melee ability.  

But I got over  myself in 1 second because there's so much goodness to explore.

 

Happy  Most happy.  

Liberator Assault Group,

Everything we wanted, fallback and charge advance and charge or go crazy get it all become battle shocked and then a chaplain comes over and kicks the BA back into line and we good again, very thematic.

 

Strats/rules that give us up to four fight first units. 

An enhancement,  a strat,  a Judiciar and everyone's new boogeyman Mephiston.  It'll take play testing but looks on paper to return Blood Angels back to being a terror to deal with in melee.  Can't let Blood Angels charge you but you can't charge Blood Angels either, thats wild good.

 

Captains and Chaplains

The Smash captain is back, a quick check and I think you could amp a footslogging Smash boi up to: 

Enhancement = Rage Fuelled Warrior  (+1 free = Red Rampage goes here) =  11   9 attacks at Strength 10 -2 -2 re-roll hits, Sus3, Dev, Lance, Lethal.  Stick him with intercessors and you can have re-roll wounds.

Access to captains for DC signals a new era for us.

Chaplains were good but now auto includes, im stoked with the Astorath model/rules.

 

Correction and explanation on smash captain attacks. It's Only 9 Attacks S10.   Power fist is base 5A,  S8. Core rule red thirst +1 attack and +2 strength , using savage echoes strat and succumbing to red thirst  adds 1 A and 1 S (power fist is now S11)  S10  Throw in finest hour on the captain for extra 3 Attacks.   Use  "Rage Fuelled Warrior"  enhancement on captain for the sustained hits 3.  If Leading Assault Intercessors on an objective its re-roll wounds, and maybe you oathed the unit your charging for full re-rolls to hit ?
 

 

 

Edited August 25 by Ash
Grammer explanation of smash captain

[Goranged]

Having played my first game against IG with the codex rules and points using LAG and also been a BA aficionado for years now:

 

I like:

- The flavor of the rules and the control you have with them is neat. A well written codex.

- Mobility improved a lot and we got some new tricks.

- DC still rocks. A 10 man squad with Lemartes managed to kill today 2 Leman Russ and a Rogal Dorn (Obviously my opponent focused fire other -scoring- units and mnimized Lemartes and Co capabilities). Evicerators can do some serious damage with rerolls, sustain and lethals.

-  Chaplains removing battleshock is very useful to unleash our full potential.

- SG was more reliable and blades murder stuff with the AP3 and red rampage and oath and faster when needed with out new strats.

- Captain with Sustained attacks took down by itself a Chimera.

- Mephiston, you already know.

- It was a lot of fun and I felt more in control.

 

Cons:

- Libby Dread. It was so fun teleporting things and the model and lore ...

- We are still marines, so a wise player can put us in troubles since we no longer have Jump SP + VanVets and knowing that SG is way overcosted.

- DC Dread is suuuper expensive, however, it seems we can move into engagement with the new ability and that might change things with the right cost.

 

In general super excited :)   

 

 

Edited August 25 by Goranged

[Paladin777]

@Ashhow do you get that smash captain?

[Ash]

 

@Ashhow do you get that smash captain?

My bad, sorry miscalculated the attacks its only 9 A but have explained the process in and edit above

Edited August 25 by Ash

[Paladin777]

 

My bad, sorry miscalculated the attacks its only 10A but have explained the process in and edit above

Savage Echoes is played when you're charged, which means it can't be used with Red Thirst (bonus when charging). 
 

So max of 9 attacks at S10 as before. You just get the option for SH3 for a turn now (which is still pretty boss imo!)

[Ash]

 

Savage Echoes is played when you're charged, which means it can't be used with Red Thirst (bonus when charging). 
 

So max of 9 attacks at S10 as before. You just get the option for SH3 for a turn now (which is still pretty boss imo!)

Yep took savage echoes out in my original post re-edit.  We have a lot to digest but it seems the more we look at it I think we got treated decently though I dread to see the Sanguinary Guard points knowing how high they will likely be. Hoping for 40-45 ppm 

[Paladin777]

I think 135-140 per 3 would be reasonable. 150 would certainly be too high. 
 

I also think that having the points for 6 be 5 points less than double the points for 3 would be appropriate for only being able to have 1 inferno pistol per squad. The angelus boltguns are just sad. 

[Karhedron]

 

I think 135-140 per 3 would be reasonable. 150 would certainly be too high. 

 

They are 150 points in the Codex. I agree that seems too high,  even with their new stats. I am hoping for a drop on the Day 1 MFM.

[Rhavien]

I want to change what I dislike. Just realized that foot DC special weapons don't scale in comparison to jump DC. Why? The assault intercessor box comes with two times the sprues, means you also get 2 fists per box per ten guys. Poor fellas. 

[Galron]

Hmm I really dislike the Sanguinor. I dont mind movement reactions out of phase but combat reactions like his are pretty broken. I will not be using him, but then since I am not playing BA and will simply be using a detachment, its not that big of a deal for me. 

 

I like the Pop-tart detachment and will be giving it a go with my Angstrom Scorpions for a change of pace when I get back around to actually working on them again. The strats look really good and the mindset of it reflects what I wanted to be able to do with it while using the SM Vanguard detachment while being jealous of Hypercrypt at being better at it than I was lol. Although weirdly no one I saw in person ever played it like I would have played it even though instantly all the marine players jumped on that idea when BA got it. Hello Inceptors!

[Blindhamster]

See to me the sanguinor doesn’t seem that broken, he is decent but he isn’t that good, there’s a reason he sees limited competitive use.

 

its not all that different from a heroic intervention other than it’s harder to plan for.