Returning Primarchs - Alive, Dead & Otherwise

[lansalt]

The Star Child is part of the plot of the Dawn of Fire series, so it's more than a little nod. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sensei or whatever are name dropped next...

[Alternis]

 

The Star Child is part of the plot of the Dawn of Fire series, so it's more than a little nod. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sensei or whatever are name dropped next...

Dawn of Fire series is meant to be the mainline series for the ongoing Indomitus crusade, so it can strongly be considered that what’s written in the Dawn of Fire series is written in stone and not to be contested, as is the Dark Imperium trilogy 

 

Speaking of Dark Imperium. 
I have some speculation that the emperor possessing Guilliman and burning down Nurgles garden is going to have a huge play in Russ’ return, as Russ was intentionally looking for Isha

[Marshal Reinhard]

Lots of people saying a returned dorn here. Could see it. Not sure I could see him in black though

 

[ZeroWolf]

 

Lots of people saying a returned dorn here. Could see it. Not sure I could see him in black though

 

I could potentially see it if it's tied to his comeback story, like he feels like he's let down the Emperor so vows to go on a Crusade, that sort of thing.

[Alternis]

 

Lots of people saying a returned dorn here. Could see it. Not sure I could see him in black though

 

Every Primarch that’s returned has changed in someway, and has a new physical appearance. 
 

Guilliman - Armour of Fate 

 

Lion - Old 

 

Russ - I can’t see him being mutated as he has a natural resistance to all things warp, but he will have a new appearance. 

Sanguinius - Hard to say, in a way Sanguinius coming back as he was, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, but at the same time it’s not the trend, so I see him coming back Darker, more troubled, and possibly struggling to hold back a deep wrath inside of him 

 

Dorn - Given all he’s been through, I can see Dorn not really being this noblebright being in shiny gold armour, being this immovable walking fortress. 
he’s broken, darker, almost fell to Angron, and is blaming himself for a lot of what’s happened and is seeking redemption, he’s more in line now with black Templar mentality then the imperial fist mentality up until the closing of the heresy 

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'll eat my words if it happens, but I just don't see it doing that. If he appears then changes in his lore can be true but he'll at most maybe hell sport a Templar cross but otherwise be his gold self.

 

I just don't see him moving and setting up shop in the Templar codex.

Edited August 27 by Marshal Reinhard

[redmapa]

Unless they retcon 3rd ed Index Astartes by the time Dorn is left as the last primarch alive he comes to accept the cult of the Emperor ascendant and  his divinity as "sacrifice comes easy for Rogal Dorn", he lived through the birth of the modern Imperium and accepted so he'd be the opposite to Guilliman who clings to a dead dream and far closer to the Templar mindset than modern day IF.

 

I doubt he would return but I'd love to if he did as he could be a great counterpoint to Guilliman, a primarch stuck in the ideals of old vs one that accepts the modern nightmare that is the Imperium, I'd like Dorn to be in a dreadnought to really encapsulate the idea of sacrifice and martyrdom as well as a mirror to the Emperor. He'd be less a primarch and more of a walking icon of Imperial martyrdom and firepower.

 

I still ascribe to the idea that GW planned all the Primarchs to return in Njals vision, iirc for the loyalists it was Guilliman, Khan, Corax and the Lion with Russ being absent but obviously he's returning so maybe Corax remains in the background the same way Lorgars return has become all but a lore blurb for Chaos.

[Blindhamster]

if we get primarchs for loyalists in 40k, it'll be for the big 4 first.

 

its just logical from a financial perspective.

 

sure they could bring back vulcan, or they could bring back the khan, but I just highly doubt GW investing into making salamanders or white scars stand alone supplements at this point, to bring a primarch back for the faction, you need to have enough identity in the faction to drive a lot of sales of wider things. In addition, you need proven popularity of the faction.

 

So whilst some primarchs maybe make more sense from a lore perspective, if we get loyalist ones it'll absolutely be:

 

Guilliman (done)

Lion (done)

Russ (rumoured)

Sanguinius (maybe hinted at, maybe not)

 

Trouble with Dorn, is if they bring him back and tie him to templars, its a kick in the face to imperial fist players. So I don't really even see him happening UNLESS they go for recombining chapters into legions in a broad sense, which rule wise is almost already a thing. Making Dorn available to templars or fists might work, but does come with some oddities.

 

Vulcan, Corax, Khan and Ferrus just don't feel too likely to me, at least not till after the above 5. This is mostly because of the real world implications, rather than lore ones. From a lore perpective Vulcan, Corax or Khan would all be good candidates. Much like Russ. Where Sanguinius, Ferrus and maybe Dorn are dead to some extent or another.

 

p.s. a legion of the damned ferrus would be cool though.

Edited August 27 by Blindhamster

[Helias_Tancred]

We will all be retired and living out the very last of our lives when this happens lol. GW has been so intentionally slow-walking, err not walking but slow-crawling the return of loyalist primarchs.

 

In theory I'm very supportive of this, it opens tons of opportunity for really driving the 40k lore forward with some very cool concepts and growth to the lore, but it doesn't make sense for profit for GW unless they're seeing serious sales and stock value decline and they need to "goose" the golden goose!

 

I'm not a GW optimist on this.

 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Trouble with Dorn, is if they bring him back and tie him to templars, its a kick in the face to imperial fist players. So I don't really even see him happening UNLESS they go for recombining chapters into legions in a broad sense, which rule wise is almost already a thing. Making Dorn available to templars or fists might work, but does come with some oddities.

 

 

 

They can bring him back and, hopefully, be creative and competent enough with his rules, so that he can run fluidly with any of his son's [main] chapters; Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, or Black Templars?

 

[ZeroWolf]

 

if we get primarchs for loyalists in 40k, it'll be for the big 4 first.

 

its just logical from a financial perspective.

 

sure they could bring back vulcan, or they could bring back the khan, but I just highly doubt GW investing into making salamanders or white scars stand alone supplements at this point, to bring a primarch back for the faction, you need to have enough identity in the faction to drive a lot of sales of wider things. In addition, you need proven popularity of the faction.

 

So whilst some primarchs maybe make more sense from a lore perspective, if we get loyalist ones it'll absolutely be:

 

Guilliman (done)

Lion (done)

Russ (rumoured)

Sanguinius (maybe hinted at, maybe not)

 

Trouble with Dorn, is if they bring him back and tie him to templars, its a kick in the face to imperial fist players. So I don't really even see him happening UNLESS they go for recombining chapters into legions in a broad sense, which rule wise is almost already a thing. Making Dorn available to templars or fists might work, but does come with some oddities.

 

Vulcan, Corax, Khan and Ferrus just don't feel too likely to me, at least not till after the above 5. This is mostly because of the real world implications, rather than lore ones. From a lore perpective Vulcan, Corax or Khan would all be good candidates. Much like Russ. Where Sanguinius, Ferrus and maybe Dorn are dead to some extent or another.

 

p.s. a legion of the damned ferrus would be cool though.

Legion of the damned Ferrus is the only way I can see him working coming back. Have the skull be his summoning instrument...thinking about it, wasn't there a games day exclusive Legion of the Damned captain that carried around a skull?

[Alternis]

 

if we get primarchs for loyalists in 40k, it'll be for the big 4 first.

 

its just logical from a financial perspective.

 

sure they could bring back vulcan, or they could bring back the khan, but I just highly doubt GW investing into making salamanders or white scars stand alone supplements at this point, to bring a primarch back for the faction, you need to have enough identity in the faction to drive a lot of sales of wider things. In addition, you need proven popularity of the faction.

 

So whilst some primarchs maybe make more sense from a lore perspective, if we get loyalist ones it'll absolutely be:

 

Guilliman (done)

Lion (done)

Russ (rumoured)

Sanguinius (maybe hinted at, maybe not)

 

Trouble with Dorn, is if they bring him back and tie him to templars, its a kick in the face to imperial fist players. So I don't really even see him happening UNLESS they go for recombining chapters into legions in a broad sense, which rule wise is almost already a thing. Making Dorn available to templars or fists might work, but does come with some oddities.

 

Vulcan, Corax, Khan and Ferrus just don't feel too likely to me, at least not till after the above 5. This is mostly because of the real world implications, rather than lore ones. From a lore perpective Vulcan, Corax or Khan would all be good candidates. Much like Russ. Where Sanguinius, Ferrus and maybe Dorn are dead to some extent or another.

 

p.s. a legion of the damned ferrus would be cool though.

I wouldn’t see Dorn’s return attached to black Templars a kick in the face for imperial fist players. 
 

all it takes is a quick rules insert to say he can be included in Imperial fist armies job done. 
 

if people want him in gold you can paint him gold

 

It’s hardly something I see as a huge problem when it comes to something like this, like how Agents can be used universally in any imperium list. 
 

also to Add, Guilliman has said c splitting up the legions was a mistake and now regrets it, so who knows if GW will follow up with that narrative 

Edited August 27 by Alternis

[Gamiel]

 

Legion of the damned Ferrus is the only way I can see him working coming back. Have the skull be his summoning instrument...thinking about it, wasn't there a games day exclusive Legion of the Damned captain that carried around a skull?

It would be cool and I have seen some really cool fanart based on that concept. But the problem is that the Legion of the Damned are most likely of the Cursed Founding, a bit late for something that Ferrus would attach himself to.

[Karhedron]

In Master of Mankind,  it is implied that the Legion of the Damned began with the dead loyalists from Istvaan. The Emperor summoned them to help fight the Daemons in the webway. Ferrus leads them and the book describes him as briefly reborn from his father's avenging anger.

[Gamiel]

 

In Master of Mankind,  it is implied that the Legion of the Damned began with the dead loyalists from Istvaan. The Emperor summoned them to help fight the Daemons in the webway. Ferrus leads them and the book describes him as briefly reborn from his father's avenging anger.

If I remember rightly have the author said that that scene has not with the LoD to do. He found it a fun theory but it was not the meaning. If I now could remember where it was I read/heard him say that could I double check that it was so, as for now I can only give my imperfect memory as a source.

[Alternis]

 

In Master of Mankind,  it is implied that the Legion of the Damned began with the dead loyalists from Istvaan. The Emperor summoned them to help fight the Daemons in the webway. Ferrus leads them and the book describes him as briefly reborn from his father's avenging anger.

I can’t recall the name of the book, but I remember reading it a while back it was about the Ordos Chronos (literally the only branch of the inquisition I genuinely like they are pretty awesome) had a Legion of the Damned marine frozen in time inside a giant clock-like device 

 

when Chaos invaded the ship the marine broke free and just wrecked eeeeeverybody, OP as hell. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Ah yes, the return of the "when are the primachs coming back" thread

 

Some... ideas:

Starting with CSM,

Obviously Fulgrim will be accompanying his own lads.

• Snake tail, 4 arms, kinda like the 30k version but looking worse for wear after a 10k year long Bender at Slannesh's personal Nightclub, we're thinking a Spear for this guy, right?

Perturabo is a giant bucket miner now, right? 

• Seriously tho, he's 100% more metal than "man" yet probably retains that vaguely "massive terminator" shape, guns all over and the most shooty by far excluding Magnus, he's fallen in with Vastorr lorewise so some elements of Mr. Soulforge himself are gonna be present.

Curze is supposedly dead canonically, but...

• He probably would look much the same, tbh. Maybe the powerpack has grown bat wings and the thunder claws are natural now, but still identifiably Curze since he himself is the thing he cultivated fear over.

Lorgar

• We kinda know this already. Crown of horns, multi-flanged mace, rather angelic looking all things considered, probaly the non-"cult" CSM Primarch who's most likely to come back since he is the Chaos Undivided Primarch after Horus himself.

Horus

• Dead as a Doornail, soul deleted outright and body obliterated. Big H and his Sons have been replaced by Abaddon and the Black Legion.

Alpharius and Omegon

• Probably the easiest to bring back rules wise, but not really in a... satisfying way. Just... an Alpha Legion specific Character equipped with a Guardian Spear who "is Alpharius". I mean, could you prove it isn't him?

 

As for Loyalists,

Let's start with Russ.

• If he doesn't come back as a massive wolf man in power armour, GW have missed a trick. I'm hoping for something like Blaidd from Elden Ring in vibes, still upright and "human", but also clearly a wolf on the verge of going feral. Big Power Axe probably.

Dorn

• We don't know he's dead, but this would be a good chance for a Multi-Faction Primarch. Give him both Imperial Fists and Black Templars and a rule that he loses the keyword that isn't part of the army he's in. Definitely going to have the Massive Chainsword still tho.

Jaghatai Khan

• He got lost on a bike in the Webway but that's all we know, so probably the easiest to bring back as he could just ride back out again. Will probably keep his own Tulwar, but in terms of new "welcome back" wargear I kinda expect he'll get a Jetbike.

Sanguinius

• He's super dead and all his sons are suffering for it. If he comes back at all, it'll be as some kind of Avatar like The Sanguinor, but probably a very very angry avatar.

Ferrus Manus

• Also super dead. Probably has a better chance of coming back with The Legion of the Damned than as an Iron Hands unit. I'd say it's more likely that Iron Hands get some kind of Relic Superheavy vehicle that bears his name.

Vulkan

• Killed by Orks but will come back... eventually. Probably not soon on the release order tho. Will have a big hammer for certain and some kind of Flame weapon.

Corvus Corax

• New lore says he's back in realspace and cooped up in his tower again, so he's stopped bullying Lorgar in his house. I doubt we'll get birb corax in realspace, but it's a possibility.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

A lot of folks rather Odin Russ than that (especially given how Lion'el was aged up) so i don't think GW will be able to satisfy everyone...unless they give him a transformation ability and sell him as two models in one set, which has a very low probability of happening.

Or two models in two kits both selling for the same as the other loyalist primarchs because greed.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I wouldn’t see Dorn’s return attached to black Templars a kick in the face for imperial fist players. 
 

all it takes is a quick rules insert to say he can be included in Imperial fist armies job done. 
 

if people want him in gold you can paint him gold

 

It’s hardly something I see as a huge problem when it comes to something like this, like how Agents can be used universally in any imperium list. 
 

also to Add, Guilliman has said c splitting up the legions was a mistake and now regrets it, so who knows if GW will follow up with that narrative 

Or just make keyword <legion> instead of chapter. Or just give all chapter of each lineage the first founding chapter’s keyword.

[Beta galactosidase]

 

 

If I remember rightly have the author said that that scene has not with the LoD to do. He found it a fun theory but it was not the meaning. If I now could remember where it was I read/heard him say that could I double check that it was so, as for now I can only give my imperfect memory as a source.

 

 

I do know what ADB said about the ghosts in Master of Mankind and where, I also think what he says isn't important.

 

 

 

On the name alone, Legion of the Damned are damned. They're suffering eternally as punishment for their sins.  They aren't  tragic martyrs of istvaan.  

They marines who've done something wrong.

 

The Legion are also physical beings, and their bodies are infested with nurgle's rot which is being constantly burned away by holy flames.  They  phase in and out of tangibility like a mystical version of a teleporter.  they're not made of light like the spectres in the HH novel.

 

So the was never a reason to think that the legion appears in Master of Mankind. You'd have to think of legion-of-the-damned as a single run-on sound for ghost marines but with no descriptive words in it. You'd also  have to not think much about their physical characteristics.  There was never good cause to need the comments of ADB.

 

 

 

 I just highly doubt GW investing into making salamanders or white scars stand alone supplements at this point, to bring a primarch back for the faction, 

 

 

Vulcan, Corax, Khan and Ferrus just don't feel too likely to me, at least not till after the above 5. This is mostly because of the real world implications, rather than lore ones.

 

Yes nine legions was never a target number to get to, that number isn't a deliberate choice.  It wasn't from a business need for nine waves of shoulder pad releases. It's also not for a dramatic reason. They didnt have a plan that required nine, not eight, not ten, but specifically nine different roles.  I think most people ITT know the haphazard history  of that being the number of loyal legions.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

I wouldn’t see Dorn’s return attached to black Templars a kick in the face for imperial fist players. 
 

all it takes is a quick rules insert to say he can be included in Imperial fist armies job done. 
 

if people want him in gold you can paint him gold

 

It’s hardly something I see as a huge problem when it comes to something like this, like how Agents can be used universally in any imperium list. 
 

also to Add, Guilliman has said c splitting up the legions was a mistake and now regrets it, so who knows if GW will follow up with that narrative 

 

I would expect Dorn to be in his gold armor, and be able to be attached to any Imperial Fist, Black Templar, or Crimson Fist list.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

I do know what ADB said about the ghosts in Master of Mankind and where, I also think what he says isn't important.

 

 

 

On the name alone, Legion of the Damned are damned. They're suffering eternally as punishment for their sins.  They aren't  tragic martyrs of istvaan.  

They marines who've done something wrong.

 

The Legion are also physical beings, and their bodies are infested with nurgle's rot which is being constantly burned away by holy flames.  They  phase in and out of tangibility like a mystical version of a teleporter.  they're not made of light like the spectres in the HH novel.

 

So the was never a reason to think that the legion appears in Master of Mankind. You'd have to think of legion-of-the-damned as a single run-on sound for ghost marines but with no descriptive words in it. You'd also  have to not think much about their physical characteristics.  There was never good cause to need the comments of ADB.

 

 

 

Yes nine legions was never a target number to get to, that number isn't a deliberate choice.  It wasn't from a business need for nine waves of shoulder pad releases. It's also not for a dramatic reason. They didnt have a plan that required nine, not eight, not ten, but specifically nine different roles.  I think most people ITT know the haphazard history  of that being the number of loyal legions.

I’ve never seen/ heard any of that lore for the LoD before where is it from?

[ThaneOfTas]

 

Snake tail, 4 arms, kinda like the 30k version but looking worse for wear after a 10k year long Bender at Slannesh's personal Nightclub, we're thinking a Spear for this guy, right?

Would be a complete waste not to give him the last Crone Sword.

 

Agreed with @Indy Techwisp on Sanguinius as well If you bring him back he should be a Daemon/Ghost/not fully incarnated. Not turning the Sanguinor into an Avatar of Sanguinius was a wasted opportunity as far as I'm concerned, but they could still tease a seperate one regardless. He can be very much Not Alive while still being present.

 

Put me down in favour if Odin!Russ. I also wouldn't object to a transforming model to give him a Wolfen version as well, but the Odin one matters more to me. For starters it would give the Loyalists a properly Psyker Primarch, also having him in some ways become more like Magnus would be very amusing and narratively rich. Plus a significant amount of focus has been given to his spear lately, a spear named Gungnir, the same as Odin's spear.

 

 

Edited August 28 by ThaneOfTas

[Karhedron]

 

Would be a complete waste not to give him the last Crone Sword

 

Trolling the Eldar would be very in-character. 

[Alternis]

 

 

Trolling the Eldar would be very in-character. 

Slaanesh trolling the eldar im fairly certain Ynnead AND Cegorach have been trolling Slaanesh for much longer