Returning Primarchs - Alive, Dead & Otherwise

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm not even sure I really care about returning primarchs anymore? ... Look how long the Lion has been out and Black Library hasn't done jack squat with his impact on the broader genre and current storyline. Oh yeah he made an appearance, saved Dante, and took down Angry Ron in an epic fight. Several pages max? ... /yawn.

 

Really? The implications of a returned loyalist primarch are HUGE, and this is what we have so far, going on  ...two years? Whereas Black Library has churned out several of their typical 40k low quality fare novels since then?

 

At this point I'm tired of getting jerked around by GW on the whole "which primarchs are coming back, and when" ordeal. They started losing me on this issue when it became obvious their statement on returning primarchs at the end of 7th edition turned out to be a lie; going forward there would be two primarchs released each successive year. lol.

 

So anyways yeah, my care level on this topic as a hobbyist and fan is rapidly diminishing.

 

 

 

Edited September 8 by Helias_Tancred

[Blindhamster]

im going to guess after the current dawn of fire series is over, there will be a series which may cover bobby g and lion interacting in some manner

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Because slow-walking everything = a promised means of continued profits ... as long as the current customer numbers aren't falling off a ledge. However, as having worked for GW for two years in the past, I will tell you that they believe their customers are replaceable, and their most diehard ones are never leaving. Their logic is that their IP is so good, their models are the best, and everything that supports it, that they're basically selling crack. Knowing that explains why many of their actions as a company are not customer friendly.

 

 

I mean they are basically selling crack, and it’s taking me a lot of effort to rehab myself off them.

 

that :cuss:ty perspective of their customers doesn’t surprise me at all.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

I mean they are basically selling crack, and it’s taking me a lot of effort to rehab myself off them.

 

that :cuss:ty perspective of their customers doesn’t surprise me at all.

 

Force yourself off the GW Gerbil Wheel that is quite a well designed marketing effort to get you to spend and buy what they release almost like a knee jerk reaction. You can still enjoy the hobby, collect, hobby, play, read, etc ... but you don't have to be on their gerbil wheel. And it feels SO GOOD once it no longer has a hold on you. Freedom.

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Force yourself off the GW Gerbil Wheel that is quite a well designed marketing effort to get you to spend and buy what they release almost like a knee jerk reaction. You can still enjoy the hobby, collect, hobby, play, read, etc ... but you don't have to be on their gerbil wheel. And it feels SO GOOD once it no longer has a hold on you. Freedom.

 

 

I mean can’t even enjoy the game when they keep fething up the rules every few months

 

i looked high and low for other games to scratch the itch, and even looked into making my own game before coming back to the hobby.

 

now I’m looking for other games and feel like I’m pretty close to finishing my very casual game.

Edited September 9 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lord_Ikka]

 

I'm not even sure I really care about returning primarchs anymore? ... Look how long the Lion has been out and Black Library hasn't done jack squat with his impact on the broader genre and current storyline. Oh yeah he made an appearance, saved Dante, and took down Angry Ron in an epic fight. Several pages max? ... /yawn.

 

Really? The implications of a returned loyalist primarch are HUGE, and this is what we have so far, going on  ...two years? Whereas Black Library has churned out several of their typical 40k low quality fare novels since then?

I think a major problem is the lack, or at least perceived lack, a real coordinated effort to advance the narrative of the universe. I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest novel, and was waiting for more than just an Arks of Omen rulebook. GW/BL did a good job of making the Horus Heresy series both interesting and moving along a set path- they worked together with all of the authors to make sure that there were story hooks that intertwined and that the overall story was mapped out and followed. I just don't see it here- you have Dark Imperium and the Dawn of Fire series that were/are both set to be the next stage, but Dark Imperium had to be retconned for timing issues and Dawn of Fire is both wandering in focus and lacks impact in terms of overall universe importance. 

 

I agree that the Lion returning should have had a huge impact, especially after he encountered Dante and the Imperium as a whole (even if it was just the Nihilm side). Son of the Forest was a great intro into bringing the Lion back, but it was a personal journey that had to be done before he was ready to be introduced on the grand stage. Why not have him featured in something like the Dawn of Fire series rather than an Arks of Omen book? The Arks of Omen books were ok, but they were written like the fluff portions of a codex, not a novel- the universe can be expanded in a way better than that.

 

The Lion coming back (and eventually Russ, if rumors hold true) should be something that shakes the Imperium to its core, perhaps even more that Gulliman did. For while Gulliman is an excellent administrator and ruler, the Lion is first and foremost a warrior and leader of warriors. His return should bring a new surge of martial pride and even zealotry to the crumbling Imperium. 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

im going to guess after the current dawn of fire series is over, there will be a series which may cover bobby g and lion interacting in some manner

 

Good Lord one can only hope!!!

 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

I think a major problem is the lack, or at least perceived lack, a real coordinated effort to advance the narrative of the universe. I enjoyed the Lion Son of the Forest novel, and was waiting for more than just an Arks of Omen rulebook. GW/BL did a good job of making the Horus Heresy series both interesting and moving along a set path- they worked together with all of the authors to make sure that there were story hooks that intertwined and that the overall story was mapped out and followed. I just don't see it here- you have Dark Imperium and the Dawn of Fire series that were/are both set to be the next stage, but Dark Imperium had to be retconned for timing issues and Dawn of Fire is both wandering in focus and lacks impact in terms of overall universe importance. 

 

I agree that the Lion returning should have had a huge impact, especially after he encountered Dante and the Imperium as a whole (even if it was just the Nihilm side). Son of the Forest was a great intro into bringing the Lion back, but it was a personal journey that had to be done before he was ready to be introduced on the grand stage. Why not have him featured in something like the Dawn of Fire series rather than an Arks of Omen book? The Arks of Omen books were ok, but they were written like the fluff portions of a codex, not a novel- the universe can be expanded in a way better than that.

 

The Lion coming back (and eventually Russ, if rumors hold true) should be something that shakes the Imperium to its core, perhaps even more that Gulliman did. For while Gulliman is an excellent administrator and ruler, the Lion is first and foremost a warrior and leader of warriors. His return should bring a new surge of martial pride and even zealotry to the crumbling Imperium. 

 

Son of the Forest WAS GREAT!!! There should have been an immediate effort to follow that up with a "Now this is what the Lion goes forth and does, including a sit down Roboute, and visiting the Golden Throne!"

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

The Lion couldn't have been in the Dawn of Fire books, as I recall that was supposed to be filling in gaps between Guilliman's return and the "current" lore (aka before Arks of Omens). Now, this was before the start of 9th edition (which also should be near the time when they finalised the Lion's return), when they reset Dark Imperium to happening after the Dawn of Fire books (could be mistaken about that). That probably would have caused some internal shuffling of ideas at BL. 

 

As for the current situation, I can easily see a meeting between Roboute and Lion'el not happening till the end of 10th campaign. Could we get anything sooner? Possibly, I'll never say never but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it. 

 

There is another factor that could play into this, being author availability, and if they actually want to do it. Given all the rumours about a Scouring series to take the place of the Horus Hersey, I'd imagine their best would be fixated that. Given how lukewarm some of the Dawn of Fire books were received, I can see GW focusing on the likely more profitable series.

[Blindhamster]

 

There is another factor that could play into this, being author availability, and if they actually want to do it. Given all the rumours about a Scouring series to take the place of the Horus Hersey, I'd imagine their best would be fixated that. Given how lukewarm some of the Dawn of Fire books were received, I can see GW focusing on the likely more profitable series.

They really need to prioritise sorting out the current era novels and consistency before they jump into the scouring.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

They really need to prioritise sorting out the current era novels and consistency before they jump into the scouring.

 

Yep. 100%.

 

Because their current 40k stuff is a mess, starting with the Dawn of Fire novels that have sort of meandered off like a heat seeking missile that's lost its lock. If they were seeking to replicate the Horus Heresy line in 40k they've failed. If they sought to establish an on-going story that links together to form a larger narrative and point, they've failed. The last few that I've read felt like stand-alone novels. I mean yeah Roboute Guilliman is out there with a huge fleet somewhere, but that's about it concerning consistency.

 

The big 900 pound gorilla in the room is the return of the Lion. His story isn't even remotely addressed, and its been going on two years. This fact trivializes the return of primarchs. They need to fix it, or continue to lose fans on it.

 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Helias_Tancred

[ZeroWolf]

 

 

Yep. 100%.

 

Because their current 40k stuff is a mess, starting with the Dawn of Fire novels that have sort of meandered off like a heat seeking missile that's lost its lock. If they were seeking to replicate the Horus Heresy line in 40k they've failed. If they sought to establish an on-going story that links together to form a larger narrative and point, they've failed. The last few that I've read felt like stand-alone novels. I mean yeah Roboute Guilliman is out there with a huge fleet somewhere, but that's about it concerning consistency.

 

The big 900 pound gorilla in the room is the return of the Lion. His story isn't even remotely addressed, and its been going on two years. This fact trivializes the return of primarchs. They need to fix it, or continue to lose fans on it.

 

 

 

When you say story, you mean things after Ark of Omens right? From lore dumps in white dwarf and codex, it seems he's still looking for the fallen and judging them (thus adding to the inner circle companions ranks).

[Orange Knight]

At least the Dark Imperium books are good. The retcon just fixed some technical time inconsistencies. The actual story told, the characters the novels follow and the ending are all great. In fact - these novels are probably guilty of setting expectations too high for anything that follows. They were really moving the entire setting forward - same with the Chris Wraight books sets on Terra, and the two Cawl novels.

 

On the other hand, The Dawn of Fire novels have been really poor, and they completely fail as a cohesive series. They also feel completely redundant. Too many characters and too many meandering stories changing from book to book, and none are getting enough time to ingrain themselves to the readers. I really struggle to care for these novels, and I suspect many others feel the same way.

 

Dare I saw, the Dawn of Fire novels have probably underperformed. If BL are expecting these to capture people in the same way as the Heresy or the Dawn of Fire trilogy, they will likely be disappointed. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Dawn of Fire has turned into such a dud of a series that at this point I figure the best way for them to boost sales on the final book is to threaten to keep making more if they end up stuck with any unsold copies of this one.

 

Instant bestseller!

[SvenIronhand]

It would be very interesting to see how Russ's return goes, if only because it has relevancy for my Successors, who are more akin to the cousin you see only occasionally at family reunions.

Best Era Indomitus book is Spear of the Emperor. 

[Orange Knight]

Spear of the Emperor must be one of the most overrated 40k novels in my opinion, and to this day I am baffled by the praise it gets.

 

It's well written, but there's nothing special about it beyond that.

[Cenobite Terminator]

The return of Russ and how it’s handled is the most interesting to me by far.

[Blindhamster]

 

Spear of the Emperor must be one of the most overrated 40k novels in my opinion, and to this day I am baffled by the praise it gets.

 

It's well written, but there's nothing special about it beyond that.

It’s a very good book, it’s not the best book, but it’s very good

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Spear of the Emperor must be one of the most overrated 40k novels in my opinion, and to this day I am baffled by the praise it gets.

 

It's well written, but there's nothing special about it beyond that.

It’s the perfect vehicle for getting someone new into the setting with minimal investment, just like Helsreach was before the abomination of 8th retcons. You get a story that illustrates the scope and scale of the current galactic situation, the story is small but deep, and has interesting threads a reader can follow later if they want but doesn’t need to. 

[Tacitus]

 

The return of Russ and how it’s handled is the most interesting to me by far.

I'm not convinced Russ is next.  I mean sure, 90-95% but I just recently started wondering if Sanguinius isn't next.  I mean its a long shot and they have to figure out how - but I could totally see them sneak him in for some surprise and hype from the surprise - plus winged angel vs snake bodied daemon - and it runs a parallel to the Unremembered Empire Triumvurate. 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Spear of the Emperor must be one of the most overrated 40k novels in my opinion, and to this day I am baffled by the praise it gets.

 

It's well written, but there's nothing special about it beyond that.

 

I think part of that is who wrote it. He could crap between two pages and call it a book and a lot of people would praise him and give it good reviews. I'm a fan of most of ADB's novels, he's one of their best authors IMO, but there is also an aura of invincibility to his works too, based on his very good track record.

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I'm not convinced Russ is next.  I mean sure, 90-95% but I just recently started wondering if Sanguinius isn't next.  I mean its a long shot and they have to figure out how - but I could totally see them sneak him in for some surprise and hype from the surprise - plus winged angel vs snake bodied daemon - and it runs a parallel to the Unremembered Empire Triumvurate. 

Not that hard for them to explain sanguinius’ return physically.

 

his body has been healed and is in stasis.

he’s already been ‘back’ and effecting the events of the physical universe.

 

sanguinius’ spirit has regained enough strength to reinhabit his body, and boom, sanguinius is back. Maybe they could have something with Mephiston acting as a conduit in a ritual or something.

[Tacitus]

 

Not that hard for them to explain sanguinius’ return physically.

 

his body has been healed and is in stasis.

he’s already been ‘back’ and effecting the events of the physical universe.

 

sanguinius’ spirit has regained enough strength to reinhabit his body, and boom, sanguinius is back. Maybe they could have something with Mephiston acting as a conduit in a ritual or something.

I'd be surprised if they did that.  That's what they did for Guilliman.  I'm not saying they won't resurrect him, just not in the same "Magic Ritual Stasis Healing" way.  If/When they do it, it'll be something BA Fluff related. I hope.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I'd be surprised if they did that.  That's what they did for Guilliman.  I'm not saying they won't resurrect him, just not in the same "Magic Ritual Stasis Healing" way.  If/When they do it, it'll be something BA Fluff related. I hope.

As I understand guilliman, he was never dead, just on the verge of death, and was kept in stasis to prevent his death.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I would like clarity on something. While I generally agree that Ferrus is as dead as it's going to get, what exactly is the current status of his body? Did the Iron Hands chop it up to make relics? Is it just somewhere in their fortress monastery? Does Cawl have it and he uses it as a little Iron Hand geneseed garden? Does Daemon Fulgrim have it and he has it in a giant picture frame which he occasionally monologues to? Does the Addams family have one of the hands, fully separated from the rest of the body?