Returning Primarchs - Alive, Dead & Otherwise

[Karhedron]

Ferrus's head was taken by Fulgrim and served on a platter to Horus who defleshed it and used to talk to the skull. I vaguely recall that Dorn collected the skull after the Emperor's final duel with Horus and returned it to Terra along with the Emperor and the body of Sanguinius. I can't remember for sure if/where that was mentioned or if I am remembering fan-fiction as canon.

 

The Iron Hands recovered parts of his body and attempted to build a cybernetic mechanism but I think Shadrak Meduson destroyed it as an afront to the Primarch's memory.

[ZeroWolf]

 

Ferrus's head was taken by Fulgrim and served on a platter to Horus who defleshed it and used to talk to the skull. I vaguely recall that Dorn collected the skull after the Emperor's final duel with Horus and returned it to Terra along with the Emperor and the body of Sanguinius. I can't remember for sure if/where that was mentioned or if I am remembering fan-fiction as canon.

 

The Iron Hands recovered parts of his body and attempted to build a cybernetic mechanism but I think Shadrak Meduson destroyed it as an afront to the Primarch's memory.

The Dorn thing was The End and the Death part 3

[Orange Knight]

 

As I understand guilliman, he was never dead, just on the verge of death, and was kept in stasis to prevent his death.

 

It was confirmed that he was never technically dead, and that his new suit simply kept him alive long enough for his body to defeat Fulgrim's poison. He doesn't even need the suit now - but frustratingly this lore is only confirmed in the short story "Armour of Fate". He is described as walking around in a regal robe of some kind in the novel Godblight at least.

 

It was also said that due to the massively long stasis, Yvraine had to reconnect his soul to his body again. This lore is only really spoken about in the Campaign book so we can't be sure how it's currently viewed in terms of "canon accuracy" since GW seems to now be ignoring the followers of Ynnead.

 

All that being said, at least we have this abundance of lore surrounding Guilliman, and we have books about his return to Terra, his shake up of the High Lords, his 4D chess moves to "Out-politics" the politicians, his crusade, interactions with the Emperor, etc etc. 

I'm not seeing ANYTHING in the works about the Lion, and as mentioned prior by several frater - I don't really want to see Russ return if he isn't going to be supported with appropriate Black Library novels and Crusade books. We love these models because of how they reflect the lore and setting, not just because they look cool.

[SvenIronhand]

Arks of Omen? Lion: Son of the Forest? Or do those not count?

[Karhedron]

 

All that being said, at least we have this abundance of lore surrounding Guilliman, and we have books about his return to Terra, his shake up of the High Lords, his 4D chess moves to "Out-politics" the politicians, his crusade, interactions with the Emperor, etc etc. 

I'm not seeing ANYTHING in the works about the Lion, and as mentioned prior by several frater - I don't really want to see Russ return if he isn't going to be supported with appropriate Black Library novels and Crusade books. We love these models because of how they reflect the lore and setting, not just because they look cool.

 

We have had 7 years worth of novels about Guilliman while the Lion has only had 1. Just over a year after Guilliman's release, we had one campaign book (Gathering Storm 3) and one novel (Dark Imperium) actually featuring him. So actually there is about as much lore on the Lion as there was on Guilliman over the same timeframe. I am pretty sure we will be hearing more from Johnson as time moves on and we will start to learn what his impact has been on the setting. But GW are going to take their time with it just as they did with Guilliman.

[Orange Knight]

No, that isn't quite the same. True, the Lion has a novel - but his novel is very much about his initial return. The equivalent would be a novel about Guilliman waking up and putting on his new wargear. Same about the campaign that only outlines his battle against Angron.

 

Guilliman had a campaign about his return to Terra, the Dark Imperium novel that followed was all about his impact on the setting and world building. Alongside that, Chris Wraight was penning the excelled Watchers of the Throne series.

Within the same span of time, Guilliman had returned to Terra, re-organised the High Lords, defeated the minions of Khorne in the 2nd attack on the Lion's Gate, fought Magnus, announced the Primaris, re-instated the Sisters of Silence, united the 500 worlds of Ultramar once more, etc etc

 

I'm not expecting the Lion to have as much of an impact as he isn't the Lord Commander of the Imperium, but there are core character stories that have not been covered. How will the Imperium react to the return of a 2nd son of the Emperor? Apparently that's not important, and over a full year later there are no additional novels announced.

 

Remember, we knew the Dark Imperium was a trilogy from the initial book. What is the Lion's impact on the setting?

[Robbienw]

He's not been back for long and he is currently in the dark half of the imperium, relax.

 

Guilliman has been back 7 years in real time, ages in universe. 

 

The lion just over 1 year in real time, not long in universe.  In that time, the Lion has brought ruin to the forces of Chaos, saved Dante and a load of Blood Angels, killed Angron and has been reunited with his Legion.  He's a nicer model as well 

[Orange Knight]

I'm not sure what's controversial about my opinion that people feel the need to disagree. A second loyalist Primarch has returned - the 2nd or 3rd biggest lore implication in 30 years of the setting.

 

I think it needs more fanfare than a book about how he gets his sword and shield, and fights a small chaos warband on some backwater planets. Like I said, Guilliman's initial lore offering was his awakening, a massive Crusade across the stars, a battle against his brothers, a meeting with the Emperor and an ending in him taking control over the Imperium.

 

Or is the Lion not a big deal? No one forced GW to bring him back in the way they did and in the location they did.

Edited September 11 by Orange Knight

[Robbienw]

Guilliman was re-introduced in the stable part of the imperium and was able by circumstance to take charge in the midst of galaxy changing events.  In the right place at the right time as it were.

 

Are you saying you wanted the re-introduction of the Lion to exactly mirror the re-introduction of Gulliman?  Seems unlikely GW would do that.  He's done a lot more than fighting a few small chaos warbands, you should check out the arks of omen fluff/new DA codex.

 

Give it time mate.

Edited September 11 by Robbienw

[Orange Knight]

That's the whole issue. There has been plenty of time. Black Library seem to have slowed their output - it's amazing how long it's taken to even get one book announced about the Votann.

 

And the key authors will often know about intended releases far in advance.

[DemonGSides]

 

That's the whole issue. There has been plenty of time. Black Library seem to have slowed their output - it's amazing how long it's taken to even get one book announced about the Votann.

 

And the key authors will often know about intended releases far in advance.

 

I'm very critical of the imperium Nihilus not being as explored as it should be, and even I think The Lion has gotten a pretty fair shake so far.

 

If they go another year without a single book I'd be more keen to agree with your position, but it's been just over a year, it's still post covid as far as GW production schedules go, and they are glacial with their pace as well.

[SvenIronhand]

 

That's the whole issue. There has been plenty of time. Black Library seem to have slowed their output - it's amazing how long it's taken to even get one book announced about the Votann.

 

And the key authors will often know about intended releases far in advance.

Lion was revealed in March of last year.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Arks of Omen? Lion: Son of the Forest? Or do those not count?

 

Son of the Forest was great! Arguably the best novel BL has done over the last few years, but it wasn't a complete solution to what was needed. I stated before BL should have had a follow up novel started or in the works covering the second part of his return; what he started doing with his relationship with the current Imperium including the Dark Angels, his brother, and the emperor.  His part in Arks of Omen that I'm familiar with (I didn't read the other two) was his fight against Angron, saving Dante, and making an appearance in the distance before his sons. Again, good stuff but it is not the full solution. You pointed out he released last March, I mistakenly thought it was closer to two years? So yeah the time is nearing they need to release more lore about his return and the current status of things with him in the genre.

 

 

 

Edited September 11 by Helias_Tancred

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Lion was revealed in March of last year.

So just over a year ago like every one has been saying?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Son of the Forest was great! Arguably the best novel BL has done over the last few years, but it wasn't a complete solution to what was needed. I stated before BL should have had a follow up novel started or in the works covering the second part of his return; what he started doing with his relationship with the current Imperium including the Dark Angels, his brother, and the emperor.  His part in Arks of Omen that I'm familiar with (I didn't read the other two) was his fight against Angron, saving Dante, and making an appearance in the distance before his sons. Again, good stuff but it is not the full solution. You pointed out he released last March, I mistakenly thought it was closer to two years? So yeah the time is nearing they need to release more lore about his return and the current status of things with him in the genre.

 

 

 

Did he meet the BA in his book, or did that meeting happpen off screen so to speak?

[SvenIronhand]

 

So just over a year ago like every one has been saying?

Do you expect multiple tectonic events in lore a year? I think we have a different conception of how fast things should move if that's the case. 

[ZeroWolf]

 

Did he meet the BA in his book, or did that meeting happpen off screen so to speak?

End of the book. It essentially reveals why he was travelling with the BA at the beginning of the last Arks of Omen book.

 

Also we have some idea of what he's doing, rounding up the Fallen he can find and either turning them into Inner Circle Companions or killing them. I expect a follow up book to probably focus on the Lion dealing with Luther.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Did he meet the BA in his book, or did that meeting happpen off screen so to speak?

 

He met them in his book towards the end of it. He met Dante. If I recall the Blood Angels had a small fleet tailing him, or something like that?

 

You should consider reading his novel Son of the Forest, it was very well done!

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Do you expect multiple tectonic events in lore a year? I think we have a different conception of how fast things should move if that's the case. 

I have no clue what it is you’re on about 

 

 

He met them in his book towards the end of it. He met Dante. If I recall the Blood Angels had a small fleet tailing him, or something like that?

 

You should consider reading his novel Son of the Forest, it was very well done!

 

I have considered it, but there are so few 40K novels I’ve been able to enjoy that weren’t written by abnett I’ve been skeptical. I think DoB is the only one.

[Lord_Ikka]

The Lion met Dante and the BA at the end of Sons of the Forest, and then in the Arks of Omen books dropped with the BA/Risen to save Azrael and the DA from Angron on the former Caliban-turned-Wyrmwood daemon-world/webway key-thing. We haven't seen anything from either the Lion/DA or Abaddon/Vashtorr since then; in the CSM codex Vashtorr has been searching for the Lock to the Vault of the Old Ones with Wyrmwood but the whereabouts of Abaddon are not stated. 

[Gamiel]

 

We haven't seen anything from either the Lion/DA or Abaddon/Vashtorr since then;

We also have had a Lion article (made up by in verse writings of people reacting to Lion's return, after action reports from his appearances, and similar) in the White Dwarf and also some articles involving Vashtorr.

[ZeroWolf]

 

The Lion met Dante and the BA at the end of Sons of the Forest, and then in the Arks of Omen books dropped with the BA/Risen to save Azrael and the DA from Angron on the former Caliban-turned-Wyrmwood daemon-world/webway key-thing. We haven't seen anything from either the Lion/DA or Abaddon/Vashtorr since then; in the CSM codex Vashtorr has been searching for the Lock to the Vault of the Old Ones with Wyrmwood but the whereabouts of Abaddon are not stated. 

Wyrmwood has turned up in the Pariah Nexus per the new lore from White Dwarf as Vashtorr has plans there and is enjoying the chaos. This is also where Magnus has dusted off some old Thousand Son toys and sent them.in to stop Vashtorr.

 

Just realised but there's also technically part of the Arks of Omens that happens concurrently with Son of the Forest as in one of the campaign books, you see Dante dealing with one of the 'Arks of Omens'. He boards but finds everything already dead with evidence of bolter fire and mysterious plant life.

[Lord_Ikka]

Ack, don't have a WD sub so I never know what lore they sneak in there. 

[ThaneOfTas]

The Vashtorr/Wyrmwood stuff was also all in the Pariah Nexus Crusade book.

[Evil Eye]

I'd like to see all the Loyalist Primarchs return...to the annals of history, where they belong.