Vanguard Vets in 10th, how would equip them? Would you kit-bash or wait?

[Helias_Tancred]

Subject says it all.

 

If you currently run, or are planning to run, a squad of jump pack vanguard veterans how do/would you equip them?

 

If you've got tons of old bits (including storm shields) to pull this off, would you kit-bash a Vanguard Veteran squad out of a box of jump pack intercessors, or wait until GW releases the new updated kit? I guess in theory you could also use a couple marines from the new Sternguard kit too? /shrug

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2024 by Helias_Tancred

[jaxom]

I suspect heirloom weapons will carry forward; or at least any melee weapons and bolt pistols you equipment them with will be compatible enough. I’d magnetize any shields. I know players love them, but I don’t think jump pack troops with shields is a concept that Jes Goodwin would sign off on.

[Karhedron]

I run mine with 5 Storm Shields and 5 Inferno pistols. I play Blood Angels so for a few more weeks at least, I also run them with a Sanguinary Priest so they are AP-2 and also S7 on the charge.

[redmapa]

I had 10 assault intercessors that I'm planning on turning them into VVs, as for the weapons I gave up on trying what's best with how heirloom weapons are and just gave them shields and axes/power fists, plasma pistols and some double LCs because I thought that was cool. I would like to run 2 blocks of 10 lead by a Chaplain in one of them at least for the +1 to wound to help the mediocre generic weapons.

 

On paper I don't think they're a good unit so do what you think is cool, shields and power weapons are a good bet to future proof your models imo, a 4++ can't go too wrong.

Edited August 29, 2024 by redmapa

[Sir Clausel]

I made mine sword and board baby! Mostly because i like shields and its sort of a thing with my army. I kitbashed them with various different kits. Mainly from unused minis from earlier projects. 

But i would probably wait now. Seeing how GW changes units with new releases they might remove some options. I guess they will remove my precious shields at least. And reduce the amount of special pistols they can have.

[ThaneOfTas]

I've got a couple of the old kit sitting NIB on my shelf, waiting for when the new kut gets revealed, once it does, on the off chance I like the new kit I'll get it and use the old ones as a source of extra bits, in the more likely event that I don't, I combine the old kits with some foot assault Intercessors and see what I can come up with. Regardless I figure it's not worth starting on it until we have some ideas what options they'll keep.

[Karhedron]

 

But i would probably wait now. Seeing how GW changes units with new releases they might remove some options. I guess they will remove my precious shields at least. And reduce the amount of special pistols they can have.

 

I think VanVets will keep their current configuration at least until 11th edition. So anything you build now should be good for at least another 2 years.

[Galron]

Currently running over a BA detachment so I am looking to take advantage of the inferno pistols since they are available. Not sure if I am doing 5 or 10. With melta being as lame as it is, I will probably run 10 just to make sure something gets through. Havent really thought about the rest of their equipment or even what I am equipping them with since their job is to simple use the 3" strat to drop in and blow stuff up. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm asking because I might put together a small Raven Guard collection, and a 10 man squad of Vanguard Veterans with jump packs would be a mainstay of that force. Not only in terms of one of its best or better units, but also very thematic.

 

 

 

[Galron]

A shame you cant build one of its most iconic units anymore and the unit that was the hallmark of its re-entry into 40k 2 decades ago, the twin lightning claw assault squad(long before there was an HH game). Being stuck with just heirloom weapons is kind of silly, but then they did the same thing to chosen so oh well, it is what it is. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I've thought of building the squad more thematic, so that means a couple vanguard veterans with twin lightning claws. On the rules side they'll be whatever the defacto melee weapons vanguard vets get regardless of the edition?

 

"Vanguard Veteran Weapon" roflmao ... that always struck me as they gave it to the team of guys who had all recently put in their two weeks at Games Workshop. Lame as hell on the design side, "I could care less? I'm out of here in 8 days anyway!"

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Helias_Tancred

[HeadlessCross]

 

I've thought of building the squad more thematic, so that means a couple vanguard veterans with twin lightning claws. On the rules side they'll be whatever the defacto melee weapons vanguard vets get regardless of the edition?

 

"Vanguard Veteran Weapon" roflmao ... that always struck me as they gave it to the team of guys who had all recently put in their two weeks at Games Workshop. Lame as hell on the design side, "I could care less? I'm out of here in 8 days anyway!"

 

It was one thing to do that to all the Power Weapons/Chainswords, but that hit to Power Fists and Thunder Hammers was ridiculous. 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

It was one thing to do that to all the Power Weapons/Chainswords, but that hit to Power Fists and Thunder Hammers was ridiculous. 

 

I guess GW's new mode of thinking is only terminators, and intercessor sergeants can carry thunder hammers? LMAO.

 

edit: And one specific captain of the Salamanders chapter? lol.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Helias_Tancred

[Cenobite Terminator]

Relic weapons are pure trash. I’d rather just run more jump intercessors.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

I guess GW's new mode of thinking is only terminators, and intercessor sergeants can carry thunder hammers? LMAO.

 

edit: And one specific captain of the Salamanders chapter? lol.

 

 

Yep, not even generic Captains get them unless you're using a Jump Pack. Guess the Captain forgot how to use one when in his Terminator armor. 

[L30n1d4s]

I have a squad of kitbashed Vanguard Vets using Bladeguard models, third party Jump Packs, and Lightning Claws/Thunder Hammers from old Terminator models.

 

I would love for VVs to get the Sternguard treatment (i.e. Primaris-sized new models), along with updated rules. Specifically, I would love for VVs to get a new Ability called "Astartes Spearhead" that gives them Advance and Charge and, if they already can Advance and Charge through some ability, +1" to their Advance and Charge rolls. 

 

In terms of weapons, they could have Relic Weapons (4A WS3+ S5 AP-2 Dmg1, Sustained Hits 1) and Relic Pistols (18" 2A S4 AP-1 Dmg2, Ignore Cover). They could replace Relic Pistols with Inferno/Plasma/Grav Pistols or Hand Flamers or Storm Shields and 2 per 5 could replace Relic Weapons with PFs (3A WS3+ S8 AP-2 Dmg2) or THs (3A WS4+ S8 AP-2 Dmg2, Dev Wounds)

Edited September 1, 2024 by L30n1d4s

[Tacitus]

I'd wait until they get new rules, let alone a new kit.  I don't think the current setup is going to be around long.  Heirloom Weapons are to "meh" in close combat - S5 -1 D1?  Meh.  Especially for close combat oriented troops.  BGV are S5 -2 D2, and have a 4++.

[Karhedron]

 

Relic weapons are pure trash. I’d rather just run more jump intercessors.

 

The +1S over JAIs is not their main selling point. It is the ability to to equip the whole squad with special pistols or storm shields.

[Tacitus]

 

 

The +1S over JAIs is not their main selling point. It is the ability to to equip the whole squad with special pistols or storm shields.

"Which isn't really much of a selling point" is what the response you're replying to is trying to convey is my bet.  Their speed implies a free ranging TAC unit.  The Heirloom weapon is not a TAC weapon.  Turn Heirloom weapons into a Power Sword connecting to a thunder hammer by a long weapon chain used to rotate the weapon end over and, maglocking the unused half to your thigh (and this a Pick-a-Profile Stike/Sweep situation) and they'll compete even steven with giving BGV Advance and Shoot And Charge.  Right now, they dont. 

 

[Karhedron]

BGVs are 30ppm while VanVets are 21 ppm, twice as fast and can Deep Strike. They have some overlap but are not directly comparable. 

[Dr. Clock]

I'm working on the second half of 2x5 with 6 shields, 2 inferno and 2 flamer for Deathwatch.

 

The thunder hammers I'd avoid unless you want to build a couple Captains (my plan is to use my Edric Setorax as Shrike, and then a TH Captain to add to inferno unit). It just feels bad to have thunder hammers hitting at S5 AP-1 : (

 

 

Their speed implies a free ranging TAC unit.

 

For marines, basically the speedy TAC units are shooting (Inceptors) now IMO. Vanguard vets were always the 'boutique wargear options' unit whose meta-build depended on the edition, and predominant threats therein. I agree that they'd be a million times cooler with Dmg 2, so the things that make them distinct at this point are that they're speedy 4++ more than TAC damage dealer... With no AP-2 or multi-damage melee to likely dent anything S10 or 3W, I'm hoping a hammer Captain is a reasonable shout, but equally considering a jump chaplain for them to wound S:10 or less on 4+ or marines on 2+...

 

I also wouldn't have any problem with a thunder-hammer/pw/Shield or claws vet counting as Sang Guard or something as long as you make the bases 40mm or whatever.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Cenobite Terminator]

 

 

The +1S over JAIs is not their main selling point. It is the ability to to equip the whole squad with special pistols or storm shields.

Compared to what they were, they’re just not worth the points now. They used to be super Killy and fast, which is an excellent combination. They now can’t stand up against other hard melee units.

[Tacitus]

 

 

For marines, basically the speedy TAC units are shooting (Inceptors) now IMO.

that's pretty much my point - and even Inceptors aren't really TAC.   With VV, you could do 5 Plas/Chain or Bp/Chain and 5 TH/SS or Plasma/Fist in a 10 man squad, and whether you ended up in Grot Swamp, or Terminator Terrace you had the tools for the job that would probably let you survive until help arrived.  Inceptors with Plasma don't have the Bolters for the Grots, if they have the bolters, they don't have the plasma that can be "in a pinch"ed against vehicles.   I don't mind the Heirloom concept, but there should be a Strike/Sweep, or make them Master Crafted Power Swords and also give them a Melee Melta bomb option.   A1 S10 -4 D: D6+2  x 10 guys isn't bad for a TAC. 

[Dr. Clock]

Indeed. I guess I don't really want them to be TAC so much as I want them to actually be buildable to be more specialist damage dealing than jank defense. To me that means thunder hammers or lightning claws as real choices instead of a dual-mode attack on everyone, but 10th is weird for units originally intended for the granular points scales.

 

I do want them to be effectively flying bladeguard I guess, but wanting that I also accept it is easily gettable now in counts-as Sanguinary Guard... Which I probably will do at some point for lulz tbf - and who knows if it feels right maybe I'll just rebase 'em all to 40mm and have my 2x5 running as 3x3 Sang-guard + Captain ; ) No reason 'Deathwatch Vanvets' can't run in kill-team of 3-4 amirite?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[Tacitus]

 

Indeed. I guess I don't really want them to be TAC so much as I want them to actually be buildable to be more specialist damage dealing than jank defense. To me that means thunder hammers or lightning claws as real choices instead of a dual-mode attack on everyone, but 10th is weird for units originally intended for the granular points scales.

 

I do want them to be effectively flying bladeguard I guess, but wanting that I also accept it is easily gettable now in counts-as Sanguinary Guard... Which I probably will do at some point for lulz tbf - and who knows if it feels right maybe I'll just rebase 'em all to 40mm and have my 2x5 running as 3x3 Sang-guard + Captain ; ) No reason 'Deathwatch Vanvets' can't run in kill-team of 3-4 amirite?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

I think/hope the Strike/Sweep paradigm gets more popular going forward.  Truth be told I think that was the downfall of the "troop tax" units.  "TROOPS" and a few/most of the ELITES (depending on faction) should have all been TAC.  The FAST ATTACK and HEAVY SUPPORT should have (usually) been the more specialized.