Thoughts on if Daemons join the cult Legion codexes

[Special Officer Doofy]

What's everyones thoughts on if Nurgle Daemons join the Death Guard codex? I don't know if they would, just because they seem to be coming out close to last does not mean anything, but following sigmar seems to be a thing this edition so I'm not sure. Fun to theorize.

 

It would be fun to see them share rules and have more than 500pts in a 2,000pts game. It's not game changing, Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons are both supposed to be slow and durable.

Edited September 3 by Special Officer Doofy

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It makes sense lore wise that Nurgle Daemons would be found happily alongside Death Guard. It makes sense from a rules perspective as their is some overlap between them so it's an opportunity for GW to write some interesting things. From a business pov I can see why GW wants the daemons with their legions.

 

However I can sympathize with people who like to run mixed Daemon armies that this is a bitter pill to swallow. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that like running Daemons but have no interest in DG so for them they probably feel sidelined, which is understandable.

 

A reasonable decision from GW but one that will have downside for plenty.

 

Hopefully GW nail the rules at least. I expect one of the detachments in the DG will probably be focused purely on Daemons. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw an existing character get  rules tweak to have some sort of synergy with Daemons. Maybe the new single character for DG will be a new Lord that has some daemon synergy.

[Special Officer Doofy]

@The Praetorian of Inwit yeah that is by far the biggest con to them doing it. If they do it, hopefully they nail the rules. If they don't, hopefully we get to keep the 25% rule and still bring them even without faction support.

[INKS]

I hope they have some better rules for including them but I also want Daemons to keep their own codex, which worries me a little right now.

[Lord Marshal]

Mixed Daemon armies have been the norm ever since the codex was introduced and while they may not be THE most popular army, I definitely have seen them a lot. I think it would be a real shame for those players if it was thrown out in an attempt to replicate the success of AoS joining 'mortals' and Daemons at the hip. AoS had the advantage of being a game written from scratch, unlike 40k.

 

The ideal situation would be to have both; put the relevant God's Daemons into their respective Legion's book (which they did in 8th) but also sell a mixed grill Daemon codex for those who liked it how it was.

 

I am sceptical about the rumour though. Has there been a reliable source who has stated it, or is it just educated guessing because of AoS? The absence of Be'lakor from Codex: Chaos Space Marines has me doubting it. 

 

Edited September 4 by Lord Marshal

[Indy Techwisp]

 

Mixed Daemon armies have been the norm ever since the codex was introduced. They may not be THE most popular army, but I definitely have seen them a lot. I think it would be a real shame for those players if it was thrown out in an attempt to replicate the success of AoS joining 'mortals' and Daemons at the hip; AoS had the advantage of being a game written from scratch, unlike 40k.

 

The ideal situation would be to have both; put the relevant God's Daemons into their respective Legion's book (which they did in 8th) but also sell a mixed grill Daemon codex for those who liked it how it was.

 

I am sceptical about the rumour though. Has there been a reliable source who has stated it, or is it just educated guessing because of AoS that ran away and people started taking as rumour? 

 

I would say Valrak, but somehow I doubt this rumour is one of his.

 

In terms of "joining the codex", they could just... update Daemonic Summoning in the Daemon codex to make Daemons gain the Keyword of the Chaos faction they're joining and give Daemons a "Soup-Tax" Point list like Inquisitorial Agents have.

 

Something like "Nurglings souped into Deathguard lose the [LEGIONES DAEMONICA] keyword and gain the [DEATH GUARD] keyword." meaning the Nurglings now benefit from anything that requires the [DEATH GUARD] keyword.

(and then they cost like 25pts more or something, idk.)

Edited September 4 by Indy Techwisp

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

put the relevant God's Daemons into their respective Legion's book (which they did in 8th)

 

While there was SOME Nurgle Daemon units in the 8th edition codex, they lacked the faction keyword and a majority were missing if I'm remembering correctly.

 

 

I am sceptical about the rumour though. Has there been a reliable source who has stated it, or is it just educated guessing because of AoS? The absence of Be'lakor from Codex: Chaos Space Marines has me doubting it. 

 

I don't know if it was an actual rumor. I thought that Valrak guy said it wasn't a rumor he heard, was more of a hunch he had. I don't think there has been any actual rumor. I tried to make the title of the thread be not based on a rumor. The Death Guard forums have been quiet for some time, was just trying to drum up a discussion. 

[INKS]

I honestly don't remember where I first heard it. But it is not a rumor that comes from any credible source. And often times when it is brought up to some of these online creators, some of them haven't even heard about it. I don't want to speak for Valrak, but I am 99.99% sure this did not come from him. I want to say it came from reddit or something like that. Maybe a discord.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

Mixed Daemon armies have been the norm ever since the codex was introduced and while they may not be THE most popular army, I definitely have seen them a lot. 

 

That's very interesting that you say that, as it conflicts from my own view of things - though that may come from us looking at different sets of data.

 

From the tournament perspective, I do agree that most demon armies seem to be mixed god.  That makes sense, as a tournament army in particular is going to look at taking the best options available, which typically won't all be from the same god.  That said, from my limited knowledge of things, tournament armies seem to fall into 2 categories:  1) big stuff or 2) mostly tzeench (as they are the most flexible with the best shooting) with nurgle objective holders (as they are the most resilient).  That said, and at the risk of sounding elitist, I don't think either of those fall under what most people would consider a multigod army - but again, they don't need to.

 

From my own experience (as one of the few active participants) on the demons subforum here, from a hobbiest perspective most demon collections are not mixed god - rather, with the rare exception, they are hobbyists painting up demons for the particular god they are interested in, whether intended as a stand alone force or as an add on to their other chaos army or armies.  So, at least from my view view of it, only tournament demon armies tend to be mixed demons, while most demon collections are of a single god.

 

When demons were hived off from the chaos marines into their own codex, I was against it (though, not with any particular passion) as I didn't think there was the depth to make it a interesting codex.  Part of that was I envisioned a mixed god army as largely being an undivided army, which would have required undivided demon units that simply didn't exist (and which were never developed - indeed, they've lost their only undivided unit) - which has clearly not been how the army progressed.

 

That said, taking the demons out of the chaos marines codex was good for the marines - it gave GW much more room to make unique units for the chaos marines.  I doubt we would have seen the various demon engines the heretic astartes got if demons had remained in that book.  I just wish demons had seen a similar expansion of their design space... but that hasn't realized (indeed, GW hasn't even ported over all the demon units from AoS).

 

So, I have mixed feelings about collapsing the demons codex into the various god linked legions' codexes.  While I do think that is more in line with how people actually collect demons, and that (at least in the short run) it will help fill holes in armies that really don't have much diversity or depth in units (nurgle is actually best off in that regard, with its own demon engines) I do worry it will limit the incentive for GW to design new units for those codexes. As well, I would feel bad for those few (IMHO) demons players with mixed god list, who should certainly be given a method to continue playing that way.

[INKS]

From a competitive stand point, most lists are a slight mix. There were 2 mono god armies, Khorne and more recently a Nurgle that did place in Top4 over the last 4ish months.

Some take Bel'akor, some take Khorne, Most take a GUO or 2, with plague bearers. some screamers or big bird here and there. And then greater slaanesh deamons with some fiends are popular right now.

 

Furies coming back would be really nice honestly. I hope they get a codex. I am always on the edge of restarting these guys. But they aren't a cheap army even though their range is mostly old.

 

I do think Daemons make good allies, much like war dogs and it would be nice to see some rules to help them be slightly better allies where needed.

[Plaguecaster]

I reckon giving 40k nurgle the maggotkin treatment as well as the other god legions would be amazing and would really help out a lot

It would give mono armies far more options and ways to combat their weakness 

Instead of having to take knights which don't benefit from anything being in daemons just to get any form of decent shooting I could take nurgle Damon engines that are actually nurgle units that would be able to benefit from the army rules 

 

Having 4 god legions wouldn't change how some of  daemons is played if anything it would actually  encourage nore monogod armies 

Anyways even if they did split them there would still have to be a mixed Daemon force since there  is belakor after all, he's clearly no going anywhere after his massive upgrade 

Maybe they could actually do some actual undivided units that can be used by all gods like Furies or like those FW daemon brutes 

[Muskie]

I have enough Nurgle daemons for my Nurgle army to run all daemons, I did it once in Warhammer Fantasy Battle for a store campaign. I don't think I won a single game, though I fielded an "all metal" army. Going forward I actually plan to use the Chaos Codex as it lets me use more of my painted miniature collection. I plan to run Nurgle Daemons, I think I had 3 Nurglings, 1 Beast and I guess 10 Plaguebearers last time I wrote out a list. So I am generally in favour of it, Nurgle loves all his children.