[Tinfoil Hat Theory] What if CSM are getting Supplements?

[Indy Techwisp]

This is a little Tinfoil hat theory I've come up with as to why all of the other Chaos factions have been held back until late in the edition:

 

What if all the Cult Marines are getting made into Supplements for the base CSM codex?

 

We've got Emperor's Children being put aside for an upcoming release, which probably won't be that large of a wave, World Eaters were also small and TSons are stil small several editions later (Deathguard are the outlier here being quite big, but they also were 8th editions Non-LSM Launch Faction so that makes sense)

 

A common complaint for TSons and World Eaters is that we don't have enough stuff  but equally there's some World Eaters and now Emperor's Children players who are annoyed at/concerned about losing access to CSM units their army has made use of for a long time.

 

An easy way to fix or mitigate both issues would be to simply do what they're doing to Divergent LSM this edition and make their codexes a supplement to the base codex, in our case Chaos Space Marines.

 

Obviously this would probably take a while to actually do since GW would need to go through and split out all the stuff the Cult Marines were already borrowing from CSM and then rewrite a bunch of stuff to work with each Cult suddenly having access to all of CSM's stuff.

 

Again, this is my own Tinfoil hat theory here, but it's one I think is a reasonable guess given what else has happened this edition.

Feel free to discuss it, your own theories on the matter or how much of a horrible balance upset it would inevitably be below.

[LSM]

I don't think it will happen, down to how they did the Indexes (the divergent Loyalists were supplementary in nature, including the Black Templars having a Restrictions section, while the Cult Legions were fully realised).

 

Which is not to say that the Indexes will one-to-one with the Codexes - we saw the Imperial Agents and Deathwatch folded together, for example. But I think it shows a difference in conception between the Loyalists and Heretics.

 

I wouldn't mind, necessarily, being supplements, though as a "2002 codex is the codex" guy I'm conceptually okay with the restrictions. The Cult Legions could only take units with their god's mark, and certain units couldn't take certain marks. No Obliterators or Raptors for any of the four, no Bikers for Death Guard (and no Infantry Heavy Weapons), no Havocs for World Eaters (and no Infantry Special/Heavy Weapons not named Plasma Pistol), and no Bikers or Havocs for Thousand Sons (non-Sorcerers being Bolter locked).

 

I am excited (with sympathy for those effected) for the possibility of Daemons being folded into the Cult Codexes, and if that happens then I also think they're too big to act as supplements.

[Kharn13]

 

This is a little Tinfoil hat theory I've come up with as to why all of the other Chaos factions have been held back until late in the edition:

 

What if all the Cult Marines are getting made into Supplements for the base CSM codex?

 

We've got Emperor's Children being put aside for an upcoming release, which probably won't be that large of a wave, World Eaters were also small and TSons are stil small several editions later (Deathguard are the outlier here being quite big, but they also were 8th editions Non-LSM Launch Faction so that makes sense)

 

A common complaint for TSons and World Eaters is that we don't have enough stuff  but equally there's some World Eaters and now Emperor's Children players who are annoyed at/concerned about losing access to CSM units their army has made use of for a long time.

 

An easy way to fix or mitigate both issues would be to simply do what they're doing to Divergent LSM this edition and make their codexes a supplement to the base codex, in our case Chaos Space Marines.

 

Obviously this would probably take a while to actually do since GW would need to go through and split out all the stuff the Cult Marines were already borrowing from CSM and then rewrite a bunch of stuff to work with each Cult suddenly having access to all of CSM's stuff.

 

Again, this is my own Tinfoil hat theory here, but it's one I think is a reasonable guess given what else has happened this edition.

Feel free to discuss it, your own theories on the matter or how much of a horrible balance upset it would inevitably be below.

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing, maybe we’ve been sharing the same roll of tinfoil? 
 

It would make sense to have them as supplements as it then allows the eventual expansion of undivided legions to be supplements e.g. Iron Warriors. The CSM codex can keep all of the non-legion armies like Red Corsairs. 
 

It would also make sense if the Daemons rumours are true - clear out the CSM data sheets from the cult codexes and fill them up with cult daemons. The eventual expansion of non-cult supplements would create space for undivided daemons in the CSM book.
 

As a World Eater and CSM player I would love this, it would give so many more options for crossover (and give me WE bikers and raptors babeeey!). There could be a few lines in each supplement as a caveat to give obvious restrictions - no psykers for Khorne etc.

Edited September 25 by Kharn13

[SirTainly]

I think the Daemons with the Cult dexes is quite likely too, but can't see them being supplements - the DG one would be mostly, don't use any of that, have all this instead which reduces the utility. I'm also expecting more stuff for cults next year too - if it's a year of chaos that might explain why. We could also get new kits that work for AoS and 40k (like the Daemons currently) which would increase GWs bang for buck, and help pad out the cult books without having to produce as many specific kits - but this is GW so who know?

[Special Officer Doofy]

I definitely do not want Death Guard being a supplement, for multiple reasons. One, for fairness. Death Guard get a bunch of unique units, it's only fair they lose out on units as well. It gives the divergent cult Legions a different look (I understand WE, EC and TS got less unique units, hopefully they get more soon). And two, I'm not buying two books. I already get heartburn buying a book that is often outdated almost immediately that doesn't have a digital only option. Don't need to do that twice.

 

Now rolling Nurgle Daemons into Death Guard and the other Legions getting theirs is something I'm down for.

[Dr. Clock]

I think this is already covered by the ability to take the Battleline cult stuff in the main Codex already? I guess they could just nuke that rules callout from orbit in a quarterly change or whatever, but it would beg the question of why anyone would stick with CSM in general if (like loyalists) all the 'supplements' are just 'main codex +1' at least in terms of unit variety.

 

I think it's far more likely we'll see Daemonic Legions integrated to the Cult Codexes.

 

Also they've already more or less announced Emperor's Children as a Codex, not a supplement.

 

Honestly while I know people like their story and army rules names to match, if there are mainline CSM units you'd rather use there's very little stopping you from just... building a CSM list with like 50-75% model crossover. My WEasels basically alternate game to games between WE and CSM depending on how many Daemon Engines or cultists I wanna take alongside the Zerks.

 

That said, I also agree that they've carved the main CSM units out of the Cults too aggressively for my taste, and it'd be great to see just like 1 more main book unit come through to each Cult. Nurgle = Oblits, Tzeentch = Possessed, Khorne = Raptors, Slaanesh = Chosen?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[LSM]

 

That said, I also agree that they've carved the main CSM units out of the Cults too aggressively for my taste, and it'd be great to see just like 1 more main book unit come through to each Cult. Nurgle = Oblits, Tzeentch = Possessed, Khorne = Raptors, Slaanesh = Chosen?

 

I'd also like to see a couple more things given to the Cult Legions, though you have to take into account the way they're sold. (For example, if you give Death Guard access to Obliterators then they'd need Venomcrawlers too, as they're sold together.) Aside: I wonder if this is why World Eaters don't get Terminator Lords - it's a shared kit with the Terminator Sorcerer, and if you restrict one they probably feel that you have to restrict them both.*

 

If I were adding stuff:

• Death Guard are in a pretty good place with their bigger range, though I'd like to see them get DG Vindicators. I guess Plagueburst Crawlers are seen as the "big gun tank", but I think the Mortar on the 'Crawlers is different enough from the short-range Demolisher Cannon that they'd compliment each other.
• World Eaters really need WE Chaos Lords and WE Terminator Lords. Hopefully the latter gets a model, and GW was just holding off on granting them the former until the full kit released. Ditto for Bikers - WE should really have them (a classic going back to their Index Astartes article) and hopefully whenever new Bikers come out they'll be added. As they're the one Cult Legion who don't have Cultists (due to Jakhals being too similar) I'd also give them Traitor Guard (for that Blood Pact professionalism).
• Thousand Sons... if they can stuff other people into Helbrutes, they can probably stuff daemons into other people, so Possessed and Masters of Possession are an interesting possibility. I'd definitely give them Accursed Cultists though - the forces of Change should have Mutants.
• Emperor's Children are tricky, not knowing what their release is like. If they don't get a custom elite infantry, then Chosen sticking around would be good. If they don't get custom Possessed, then I'd also let them keep Possessed (1st ed. lore included that EC liked being possessed). If they don't get custom Cultists, then keep Cultists (and Beastmen). Terminators, then Terminators. There's also Bikers to consider (especially if Doom Rider ever reappears) and Raptors/Warptalons (if Eidolon shows up, but also the Raptors' general "noise" gimmick obviously fits with the Noise Marine legion. On the other hand, I still think of Raptors when they were introduced - as their own Cult, with their own unknown god - who couldn't be marked, and therefore didn't fit in any of the Cult Legions). Another thing to consider: there's literally an Emperor's Children marine on the Chosen box, as an alternate colour scheme. I imagine that if Codex: Emperor's Children releases and they don't have Chosen, GW will have to re-box Chosen if they want to avoid possible confusion. (ie. Little Timmy buys Chosen for his EC, seeing them on the box, is upset that they're not actually useable, and raises a stink.)

*I guess Thousand Sons have the one without the other, so perhaps not... though the Thousand Sons Terminator Sorcerer can take a Khopesh and doesn't have a Familiar, so maybe they're expecting you to use a spare Scarab Occult Sorcerer.

[Dr. Clock]

 

 

 take into account the way they're sold.

 

Sure... though this could also an opportunity to double up on versions of some units by releasing new cult models or sprues. Seems like GW is obviously much more likely to just add 'novel units' with only passing resemblence to mainline CSM stuff, but that won't stop many of us from scavenging the CSM range to eke slightly more value out of kits where relevant, like doing  8 Eightbound from 3 8bound + 5 possessed.

 

It is rather perverse though that WE can't take any terminator lords when there are literally more captains available to marines than we have infantry characters. Ho hum. My Azrakh is still on sprue, and will probably stay there until we get an actual khorne terminator kit.

 

We obviously shouldn't expect GW to increase the number of units shared between CSM and cults overall... they want us to buy the armies separately, so this is definitely all just a 'wouldn't it be nice'...

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.