World's First Academic Warhammer Conference

[grailkeeper]

Maybe B&C could have a conference. Like a big zoom meeting or something. 

[Evil Eye]

Ten or so years ago I'd have been quite excited over this, but with the downright miserable state of modern academia, not so much these days. And that's all I'll say on the matter.

[Vassakov]

As with any conference, particularly one with this many topics, there are going to be some which might be quite interesting and give a different perspective to my own, some which are perhaps a little far fetched and one or two which I will wholeheartedly disagree with both premise and conclusion.

 

I don't think it's too controversial to say that academia and particularly the social sciences has its biases these days, and plenty of us would probably rather they didn't stick their oars in our hobby because they find some elements of the setting objectionable - precisely because that satirical, over the top nightmare is what drew many of us in in the first place.

 

That having been said, there's certainly room to explore the setting and the company from different perspectives and I may well see if I can stick one of these on whilst painting one day. Worst case scenario... I can switch it off and jam Nightwish's new album on instead!

[Lay]

Academic analysis of pop culture franchises isn't exactly new. It's been done for Star Wars, Harry Potter and what not. I even followed the discourse around the Matrix a bit - back when the Matrix was still relevant. But that's the thing about this stuff: it waxes and wanes with public interest in the franchise.

 

That said I'm not really interested in this. Sounds like they're mostly covering topics that have already been discussed for years on the internet.

[Cenobite Terminator]

I’d attend if it was close by.

[Dagoth Ur]

 

I’d attend if it was close by.

Yeah I'm genuinely tempted since its just a short train ride away for me. If I do, I'll probs write a short review of everything I wind up seeing.

[Captain Idaho]

=][= Due to the varied subject matter drawing analogies with modern life and all its political trappings it is logical that discussion will lead to board inappropriate subject matter, at least in part of the discussions and talks relevant in this event. We're not going to limit some topics and not others from this conference, therefore it's appropriate to close this topic down lest off topic board inappropriate material is in discussion and commented upon. This is especially true when people want to discuss or contend/agree with board inappropriate references.

 

Note there have been posts removed by the team quite correctly.

 

Some people will enjoy and appreciate discussion and presentations by academia of our hobby whilst others may not, all of which are valid to their own person preferences.

 

=][=

 

Edited September 22 by Captain Idaho

[Gillyfish]

This topic is now re-open. However, it won't stay that  way if it devolves into further off-topic discussion, discussion of real-world politics or insulting one-another.

 

Given the topic of the discussion is a conference which covers a variety of different subjects related to the hobby and its different settings and then uses these as ways to examine aspects of modern life and culture, it is inevitable that the conference is likely to discuss things that some might find contentious here and which would veer into areas which would be against board rules (as summarised above) which would mean removal of the post and could mean closure of the thread.

 

That does not mean that you cannot note that the conference is discussing those things, but it does mean that you cannot discuss the real world matters here.

 

Given this is a bit of an unusual situation, we thought the following might be helpful, as an example:

 

It's fine to note that the conference has some papers on gender representation in the setting and fanfiction (because, well, it has). It's fine to say whether in your opinion the paper abstracts match your experience of the hobby or not and even whether you are consequently concerned/enthused about the conference damaging/enhancing the reputation of the hobby/hobbyists. However,  you have to accept that experiences of representation and prejudice are extremely variable and we are not going to accept any discussion of whether a government's policy or definition of prejudice/representation is right or wrong in the first place.

 

We would also point out that personal attacks are against the rules, so if you find yourself wanting to post 'Member A said this to me which was abusive' an open thread is not the place for that. Raise it with the staff via the Report function and we will look at it.

 

The only way any discussion on this kind of topic is feasible is if everyone participating accepts that there will be people with whom you agree and others with whom you diagree. Disagreement does not always equate to a personal attack and it may be that you simply have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

As a good rule of thumb, if you find yourself annoyed by another member's post then the best thing to do is not respond. If you think it breaks the rules, hit the Report button. If it doesn't break the rules and you are still annoyed, wait to respond until you have calmed down. I have a work rule that I should never email angry (and believe me, I get plenty of provocation...). The same applies to forum posts.

 

Don't post angry.

 

You can say that something isn't your experience of the matter, but it isn't going to work if you say the other person is 'wrong' as the topics thrown up by this conference are quite likely to be wrapped up closely with people's sense of self and that means there is a much greater chance of people getting annoyed by responses. Ultimately, we are asking everyone to be respectful of each other's views on this.

 

And with that...

 

Hey, cool, there's a Warhammer conference! That's awesome! Wait, are they actually insane?!? 

[Flaherty]

I think the idea of applying an academic lens to 40K is cool. There was an episode of the old Voxcast where Wade interviewed GW's archivist and they had a fascinating chat about how British history shaped the setting, down to what the founders of the company would have experienced as young men in post-war England. The depth of the setting lends itself to a deeper analysis than one typically gets on an enthusiast forum.

 

That said, after reading the abstracts, most of the topics seemed more like high-minded blog posts than serious scholarship. A few appear to employ interesting methods – an analysis of fan-fiction, some surveys, etc. but in the main most of the talks/panels don't sound much deeper than any number of podcasts.

 

People should think deeply about their hobbies, and there are many great books, talks, and podcasts that result from that kind of introspection. I would just urge fans to share these ideas organically, and try to win followers the natural way rather than gussy them up in academic jargon in a contrived format. Or if you're really serious about advocating these concepts, it would be far more impactful to advance these papers in traditional academic venues.

[gideon stargreave]

Thanks for reopening this. I don't think there's even that many talks to be concerned about. Only one of them seems likely to antagonise the community, and I'm unsure if it's axioms are true or not.

I'm very looking forward to " What happened to the Lost Primarchs? Or, a case of invitational incompleteness", "Are We the Baddies?: The Ethical Implications of the Imperium’s War with Chaos and the Inverted Meaning of Order" and "In the Name of the Emperor? Authority and Pluralism in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future". 

"Who is the enemy? Genestealer Cults and the Diverging Political Paradigm of Warhammer 40,000" sounds fun too.

Of most value though is probablly "Clinical Use of Warhammer 40K for Treatment of PTSD in Veterans"

[Captain Idaho]

 

Of most value though is probablly "Clinical Use of Warhammer 40K for Treatment of PTSD in Veterans"

 

I have no interest in anything to do with political or social commentary regarding my hobby, but this particular title looks amazing and noble.

 

I'd add that the hobby is a good outlet for people who might struggle socially, especially going to clubs and meeting people. In addition, those who might be struggling with anything in real life can get genuine benefit from positive socialising through the hobby (even just a distraction) and an artistic outlet to grow and develop, so an expansion on this concept is very interesting.

[Firedrake Cordova]

 

I’d attend if it was close by.

Whilst it's not the same as being there in person, there is the option of remote attendance via Teams, and the sessions are also being recorded (I don't know if that's of interest or not).  

[Dagoth Ur]

 

Thanks for reopening this. I don't think there's even that many talks to be concerned about. Only one of them seems likely to antagonise the community, and I'm unsure if it's axioms are true or not.

I'm very looking forward to " What happened to the Lost Primarchs? Or, a case of invitational incompleteness", "Are We the Baddies?: The Ethical Implications of the Imperium’s War with Chaos and the Inverted Meaning of Order" and "In the Name of the Emperor? Authority and Pluralism in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future". 

"Who is the enemy? Genestealer Cults and the Diverging Political Paradigm of Warhammer 40,000" sounds fun too.

Of most value though is probablly "Clinical Use of Warhammer 40K for Treatment of PTSD in Veterans"

 

Yeah the Genestealer Cults talk is the one that stuck out to me the most as I wrote my BA thesis on Lovecraft and Genestealer cults - in general I think it is a very positive thing that 40k is getting some more academic reception, particularly considering how massive of a body of work it is. There's a lot to work with here. Very curious to see some of the approaches in these talks.

[techsoldaten]

 

 

I have no interest in anything to do with political or social commentary regarding my hobby, but this particular title looks amazing and noble.

 

I'd add that the hobby is a good outlet for people who might struggle socially, especially going to clubs and meeting people. In addition, those who might be struggling with anything in real life can get genuine benefit from positive socialising through the hobby (even just a distraction) and an artistic outlet to grow and develop, so an expansion on this concept is very interesting.

 

Yeah I was impressed with the abstracts and believe the proceedings to be generally interesting.

 

The lack of engineering or technical perspective does concern me. I would have liked to see at least a couple sessions more focused on innovation and what would be done with the hobby with modern technology. Board piece tracking, rules enforcement, computer vision, AI for army selection, material science for board composition, distributed manufacturing of game pieces, etc. - those kinds of topics could significantly contribute to the proceedings.

 

There's overlap in social awkwardness between tabletop gamers and engineers (speaking from experience in both fields.) Purely social topics leave a lot on the table.

 

[Lord_Ikka]

 

I'm very looking forward to " What happened to the Lost Primarchs? Or, a case of invitational incompleteness"

It would be interesting to see an outsider's take on this- GW very plainly stated that the original intent was to leave the two legions unknown to allow for players to create their own SM armies/lore. With all of the lore changes, the lost legions is one of the main "unknowns"* still around and has only had a few minor updates since its original inception (mainly referenced in the HH novels, such as labeling them the Forgotten and the Purged). Keeping them intentionally mysterious is something we don't see a lot from GW, so hearing what others think will be intriguing.

 

* Others would be what exactly is lurking in the Ghoul Stars/what really were the Rangdan?

[gideon stargreave]

 

It would be interesting to see an outsider's take on this- GW very plainly stated that the original intent was to leave the two legions unknown to allow for players to create their own SM armies/lore. With all of the lore changes, the lost legions is one of the main "unknowns"* still around and has only had a few minor updates since its original inception (mainly referenced in the HH novels, such as labeling them the Forgotten and the Purged). Keeping them intentionally mysterious is something we don't see a lot from GW, so hearing what others think will be intriguing.

 

* Others would be what exactly is lurking in the Ghoul Stars/what really were the Rangdan?

I remember that in the inquisitor rulebook it says "everything you have been told is a lie." I honestly wish GW had stuck to this mindset about the fluff. As the abstract says, this in "invitational" and allows us to fill in gaps however we please. (I sincerely hope we never get more info on unification / the ghoul stars / what is chasing the tyranids etc.)

[Gillyfish]

 

as I wrote my BA thesis on Lovecraft and Genestealer cults

 It may sound odd, but I would actually like to read that... 

 

 

The lack of engineering or technical perspective does concern me. I would have liked to see at least a couple sessions more focused on innovation and what would be done with the hobby with modern technology. Board piece tracking, rules enforcement, computer vision, AI for army selection, material science for board composition, distributed manufacturing of game pieces, etc. - those kinds of topics could significantly contribute to the proceedings.

 

That's a really interesting point. I haven't noticed too many academic engineers looking into those kind of fields specifically, and there is probably some interesting stuff to consider there, even if it is initially in seemingly adjacent areas (materials, plastics-recycling, etc.).

 

It has been interesting watching some of the interviews with ex-GW staffers and the statements that card stock would often be prohibitively expensive, which does make questions about the future of the some of the game materials worth exploring.

[phandaal]

 

That said, after reading the abstracts, most of the topics seemed more like high-minded blog posts than serious scholarship.

 

That was my impression as well. reddit, but with academic language.

 

It was suggested in reply to my last post that my skepticism of this conference equates to dismissing the value of academics across all time and space, which is pretty silly. What I do dismiss is the value of "40k should have more sex in it," or "fans who appreciate canon are evangelical fundamentalists," both of which (and more - because writing them all out would get this thread locked again) are presented in this conference. None of that is very new or groundbreaking to me, and this kind of thing usually does not come from people with an appreciation of the hobby.

 

 

Why would you even bother checking it out if you think academic discourse on fictional literature is just so much meaningless drivel anyways?

 

Why? Because this premise, which seems to have been developed as an emotional reaction to my last post, is false. I was interested, so I started reading. As I read, I became less interested, and much less impressed. Finally, because I wanted to be sure about what I was seeing, I read all of it. Imagine that. 

 

As people have noted, there are definitely good topics in this conference. My points were more addressed towards the pushback some people were getting for being skeptical.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 It may sound odd, but I would actually like to read that... 

 

 

That's a really interesting point. I haven't noticed too many academic engineers looking into those kind of fields specifically, and there is probably some interesting stuff to consider there, even if it is initially in seemingly adjacent areas (materials, plastics-recycling, etc.).

 

It has been interesting watching some of the interviews with ex-GW staffers and the statements that card stock would often be prohibitively expensive, which does make questions about the future of the some of the game materials worth exploring.

Peachy said in an interview the best company to work for as an engineer in the UK is GW. 

[DuskRaider]

 

 

I have no interest in anything to do with political or social commentary regarding my hobby, but this particular title looks amazing and noble.

 

I'd add that the hobby is a good outlet for people who might struggle socially, especially going to clubs and meeting people. In addition, those who might be struggling with anything in real life can get genuine benefit from positive socialising through the hobby (even just a distraction) and an artistic outlet to grow and develop, so an expansion on this concept is very interesting.

I can say this on the subject… the gaming community that I was a part of had a good number of GWoT veterans who played within it. Some of them had seen some stuff and many had said to me that this game… the hobby, the game itself and the community… had been a huge part of their reintegration into civilian life as well as a good coping mechanism for the things they were or had gone through. 

[Jareddm]

Sooo...did anyone actually watch any of the talks? The timezones difference made it tough so I only caught the last two on transhumanism and the anachronism of Ecclesiarchical aesthetic, which were both pretty interesting. 

 

I'm sure the talks will be up on YouTube soon but I'm interested if anyone had any immediate impressions?

[grailkeeper]

I missed this as I was in an Emergency Court sitting. 

I've said it else where but it might be nice for B&C to have its own online conference. Maybe have some Frathers on to talk about lore, others to talk about converting.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

I missed this as I was in an Emergency Court sitting. 

I've said it else where but it might be nice for B&C to have its own online conference. Maybe have some Frathers on to talk about lore, others to talk about converting.

I don’t know about a conference but we could definitely pull off a roast battle. 

[Tymell]

 

Sooo...did anyone actually watch any of the talks? The timezones difference made it tough so I only caught the last two on transhumanism and the anachronism of Ecclesiarchical aesthetic, which were both pretty interesting. 

 

I'm sure the talks will be up on YouTube soon but I'm interested if anyone had any immediate impressions?

 

I was unfortunately busy on the Friday, but I did sit in on some of the talks on the Saturday, specifically 40k minis as Borgmannian things, legal pluralism in the Imperium, Tyranids compared to eusocial insects, and the political themes of Genestealer Cults.

 

In general they were interesting topics and I'm certainly going to look for some videos of other panels I missed. The quality of the presentations themselves varied, but from my experience this is a thing in conferences as a whole, not unique to this one, and none of those I saw felt outright bad or anything.

 

The topics also often felt short, though not in the sense of being rushed, more just "This is a 20 minute presentation and could've been much longer". I say that more as a point of praise than a criticism: there isn't time to go into huge detail on everything, and I think some of these topics definitely have potential to be explored a lot further.

 

My favourite was probably the one looking at the themes of Genestealer Cults. They contrasted how the army's original incarnation was more focused on a corrupted ruling/upper class with the shift in the modern incarnation, placing much greater emphasis on it as a working class uprising.

Edited September 30 by Tymell

[Petitioner's City]

Yes I attended half of Friday, and really enjoyed it, but agree with Tymell, it was that case often in conferences where the papers I saw could have benefited from being much longer. 

 

I attended the middle stream in both of the first two sessions. The two papers on canonicity and fidelity (one by Chris Porter, one a paired presentation by a clinical psychologist & a religious studies scholar) were excellent, but really needed more time. Earlier, the crusades presentation by a BL crusades scholar was good, although I felt too summative - but useful for understanding the way actually highly nuanced academic understandings of the crusades relate to certain depictions in warhammer. I think something that was unaddressed in these was the role of authorship and knowledge within publications, and why certain ideas appear.

 

I'll definitely catch up with the rest this week!

 

Honesty everyone give it a go. Let go of preconceptions about academia, and just enjoy listening to smart people talk and take questions - it's fun, it's not an environment where everyone agrees (or should agree), and that's ok!