The Third Tithes episode ... I do not understand the ending or main theme?

[Helias_Tancred]

The subject says it all. I just watched it, and I'm not grasping the point or secret meaning of the story? I've re-watched it several times, and the ending and its meaning eludes me 100%.

 

 

[SvenIronhand]

The meaning is that the Imperium is wasteful of men, materiel, and munitions for no good reason.

[Malkydel]

You've got people moving to orders that don't make sense, robbing Peter to pay Paul, and it turns out that where they've been sending it has been tithed so much munitions that the facility, indeed the planet, will buckle under anymore weight.

 

So the tithed munitions that arrived are destroyed, so that the facility can endure, its bounty unused. Waste and loss and ruin, begetting more, as the Imperium eats itself alive in ignorance, blind devotion, and bureaucratic insanity.

 

 

[darkhorse0607]

Here you go, they did a whole article about it

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/18/the-tithes-episode-3-where-does-the-tithe-go/

[Scribe]

 

Here you go, they did a whole article about it

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/18/the-tithes-episode-3-where-does-the-tithe-go/

 

Some proper 40K, delicious.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Here you go, they did a whole article about it

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/18/the-tithes-episode-3-where-does-the-tithe-go/

 

Thanks for that link.

 

Not impressed with their connecting theme behind their Tithes short videos so far.

 

Edited September 21 by Helias_Tancred

[Malkydel]

 

 

Thanks for that link.

 

Not impressed with their connecting theme behind their Tithes short videos so far.

 

I've quite enjoyed it. You start off with the nobility (if all consuming) of "saving our brothers' legacy" to "sometimes you have to sacrifice something important to you for the greater idea of survival, even your honour" to "actually all your sacrifices are in vain because the system is so fundamentally broken."

 

It's the diminishing returns of what you give to the Imperium.

[Helias_Tancred]

I did like the first one.

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

Some proper 40K, delicious.

Exactly. This is the absurdity of the Grimdark universe writ large. Well done GW and the film makers. We want more of this! 

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm starting to understand the decreasing activity here.

 

 

[Scribe]

 

I'm starting to understand the decreasing activity here.

 

Because the best recent example of actual 40K tropes and tone is a 3 part mini animated short locked behind a service few use?

 

Yeah, probably. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Well no, that is not what I was thinking of, but your reply does make a good point.

 

 

[darkhorse0607]

Just curious, what did you not like about it? I thought it was decent showing what the Imperium can be like, so interested to hear your take

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Just curious, what did you not like about it? I thought it was decent showing what the Imperium can be like, so interested to hear your take

 

Well it didn't make any sense to me why they'd be taking their ammunition but then just leaving perfectly good Imperial Guard units there to die? I know the Guard can often be treated like fodder, but that was extreme.

 

Then the very ending, when they met up with the administratum adepts/masters whatever they were, I was confused by the dialogue and thought maybe the guard soliders that came back with the report were going to murdered by the shady male adept guy? And then that raised questions in my mind? I felt at best it was a theme that wasn't finished. At worst it just didn't make sense on multiple levels.

 

Thanks for asking btw.

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

It is a bit contrived, tbh. I think just about any story would have had anybody trying to remove those supplies get Oops, Sorry Sir'd in short order. Like, I get the idea behind it, but it definitely crosses the line into 'grimderp' because while troops are definitely loyal, they're not stupid. There was a way to make it work, but the Theme requires everybody sit back and passively accept what's going on. And yeah, I get 'vast grinding oppressive empire that just kills people and they let it happen because they're so loyal/oppressed/brainwashed' is A Theme, but it is silly to see it in practice. 

 

I much prefer Fifteen Hours take on it, where the Navy drops dudes off on the completely wrong planet. Nobody has any ability to change things, and they just resign themselves to it and cope the best they can, but I mean, Tithes chooses that everyone chooses not to use their agency rather than agency being denied them.

 

It's a matter of taste whether that works for you, but I get where you're coming from.

[Roomsky]

 

'grimderp'

 

There was a way to make it work, but the Theme requires everybody sit back and passively accept what's going on.

 

*Roomsky gestures frantically at the state of the world we live in.

 

[Scribe]

The setting is, and has always been, way over the top.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

It is a bit contrived, tbh. I think just about any story would have had anybody trying to remove those supplies get Oops, Sorry Sir'd in short order. Like, I get the idea behind it, but it definitely crosses the line into 'grimderp' because while troops are definitely loyal, they're not stupid. There was a way to make it work, but the Theme requires everybody sit back and passively accept what's going on. And yeah, I get 'vast grinding oppressive empire that just kills people and they let it happen because they're so loyal/oppressed/brainwashed' is A Theme, but it is silly to see it in practice. 

 

I much prefer Fifteen Hours take on it, where the Navy drops dudes off on the completely wrong planet. Nobody has any ability to change things, and they just resign themselves to it and cope the best they can, but I mean, Tithes chooses that everyone chooses not to use their agency rather than agency being denied them.

 

It's a matter of taste whether that works for you, but I get where you're coming from.

 

Well said.

 

I hope this is not a new trend in works from Games Workshop whether through Black Library, or their new animated department. Over time it would end up turning a lot of people off from the genre.

 

 

 

The setting is, and has always been, way over the top.

 

It has, but it still needs to retain a sense of balance in that.

[Scribe]

 

It has, but it still needs to retain a sense of balance in that.

 

I don't think so. The scale, the scope, the depths of human stupidity. These things are the bread and butter of 40K.

 

The Imperium should never be anything but wildly corrupt, dysfunctional, spiteful, and cruel not out of necessity but ignorance of there even being another way.

 

I don't know your history with the hobby or how much Black Library you engage with, but if the setting ever in a place where Wrath of Iron is wrong, then GW and BL have completely lost the plot.

[Valkyrion]

Years ago I heard the Imperium described as Gotham City on a galactic scale. 

If you think of your baddies (Bane, Scarecrow, Joker et al) as Tyranids, Orks, Chaos; Commissioner Gordon and the GCPD as the local PDF and Arbites, and Batman as the Space Marines descending from on high to smash things without compunction, then your average Imperial Citizen can't possibly comprehend what is going on and the government of the day is powerless to help or even hinder, such is their lack of importance. But if Gotham City is a rubbish place to live even for Bruce Wayne, how must it feel for the uncredited extras - the everyday citizens trying to get by, or the ineffective local authorities trying to keep order. 

 

It's not even necessarily proper corruption, as 40k would have it defined, just normal 'accidental' corruption like stubbornness or laziness that can really undermine everything from your local pigeon club to the highest levels of government even in real life. 

[Helias_Tancred]

 

 

I don't think so. The scale, the scope, the depths of human stupidity. These things are the bread and butter of 40K.

 

The Imperium should never be anything but wildly corrupt, dysfunctional, spiteful, and cruel not out of necessity but ignorance of there even being another way.

 

I don't know your history with the hobby or how much Black Library you engage with, but if the setting ever in a place where Wrath of Iron is wrong, then GW and BL have completely lost the plot.

 

I've been an avid Black Library reader going back to 2010. My point in balance is there has to be some sense or examples of heroism to it. There always has been in the past, muddied definitely by the other stuff that goes on, especially the "means justifies the ends" corruption that is strong with the Imperium. If it turns into JUST a dismal race to show how increasingly corrupt, dark, and dysfunctional the Imperium is, its going to lose some fans. Some of us, myself included, are drawn to it by the examples of heroism, even tainted examples of it, showing a besieged and outnumbered Imperium holding off, or surviving the myriad of threats.

 

In applying that to Tithes, that is why I liked the first one, but why the second and third were ones I didn't care for. There is a variety among 40k fans as to why they like the 40k genre, never assume its just because all of us love the corruption, dysfunction, hypocrisy, of the setting, or in my case and others, the Imperium. I love the space marines because I see them as upholding the better end of what the Imperium has to offer, flawed as they can be. Some may not agree with that sentiment, or even laugh at it? But at the end of the day it is not the right of anyone to dictate to others how they should think about it (not saying you did, just making that point, because it happens a lot in this hobby) We are all drawn to this hobby, and fans of this genre for different reasons.

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by Helias_Tancred

[Scribe]

I'm currently in a highly dysfunctional conference call, but this certainly nothing new. It's foundational from the era that created "modern" 40K.

 

The glorious 3rd Edition.

 

I believe I have covered this previously and may go over it again.

[Malkydel]

 

 

I've been an avid Black Library reader going back to 2010. My point in balance is there has to be some sense or examples of heroism to it. There always has been in the past, muddied definitely by the other stuff that goes on, especially the "means justifies the ends" corruption that is strong with the Imperium. If it turns into JUST a dismal race to show how increasingly corrupt, dark, and dysfunctional the Imperium is, its going to lose some fans. Some of us, myself included, are drawn to it by the examples of heroism, even tainted examples of it, showing a besieged and outnumbered Imperium holding off, or surviving the myriad of threats.

 

In applying that to Tithes, that is why I liked the first one, but why the second and third were ones I didn't care for. There is a variety among 40k fans as to why they like the 40k genre, never assume its just because all of us love the corruption, dysfunction, hypocrisy, of the setting, or in my case and others, the Imperium. I love the space marines because I see them as upholding the better end of what the Imperium has to offer, flawed as they can be. Some may not agree with that sentiment, or even laugh at it? But at the end of the day it is not the right of anyone to dictate to others how they should think about it (not saying you did, just making that point, because it happens a lot in this hobby) We are all drawn to this hobby, and fans of this genre for different reasons.

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself but I feel that a lot of people are here for 40k because of how corrupt, dark and dysfunctional the Imperium is.

 

Like, personally, for me the first one is the moost straightforward. It's the same sort of thing we usually get to see. We not only see Space Marines being Space Marines but those of different lineages having to find common ground, ruminating each other's philosophies.

 

For me the second and third are where 40k absolutely shines in all its bleakness.

 

It's like the 10th ed trailer. Tithes #1 is the idea of "Victory"

 

#2 and #3 are the things that will deceive and damn them.

[Scribe]

 

I can only speak for myself but I feel that a lot of people are here for 40k because of how corrupt, dark and dysfunctional the Imperium is.

 

 

There are enough settings that aspire to showing a way for Humanity to go forward with hope.

 

How many extrapolate and amplify our sins, failures, and limitations?

 

Noblebright can exist over with Star Trek, and Star Wars.

 

This is THE setting for grimdark. It's the trope namer I believe!

 

To miss that fact, is to misunderstand what 40K is.

 

The Imperium, and it's servants, are absolutely not the good guys, there are no institutions that are heroic. Individuals may try, but they ultimately will be caught in the wash, and be either dragged down, or pushed down, or be shown to be wrong.

 

How are the Celestial Lions doing?

[Helias_Tancred]

What you said is not wrong, but it doesn't fully match my take on it. Everybody is free to have their own opinion at the end of it, because we approach the hobby and genre from different angles of perspective. People look for different things in the genre, and for the most part its big enough that they find it.

 

 

Edited September 23 by Helias_Tancred