Heresy Thursday Heresy Thursday - Mechanicum Battle Group

[irlLordy]

What aircraft do Mechanicum have in the lore? I'm assuming they won't want to just port the 40k Mechanicus planes, but don't recall much focus on Mechanicum air support from the novels.

[Matcap86]

I'm more expecting the mechanicum style knights (Atropos, Moirax, etc.) to make an appearance in plastic as I think we'll be seeing those in 32mm as well. 

Edited Friday at 07:54 AM by Matcap86

[Redcomet]

 

 

Yeah does seem like a curtailed little drop of an article due to the leak. "Here's some more pictures you already saw, it's a thing that exists and comes out sometime."

 

Oh well there's always next week though! 

You do know that not everyone is terminally online as people on here are, or don’t see these leaks? 

 

 

Yeah does seem like a curtailed little drop of an article due to the leak. "Here's some more pictures you already saw, it's a thing that exists and comes out sometime."

 

Oh well there's always next week though! 

You do know that not everyone is terminally online as people on here are, or don’t see these leaks? 

[Matcap86]

 

You do know that not everyone is terminally online as people on here are, or don’t see these leaks? 

You do know that not everyone is terminally online as people on here are, or don’t see these leaks? 

 

I do, but as it spread quite quickly on both instagram, facebook, reddit, twitter and eventually on here, a lot of people in the hobby space have seen it.

 

It would have been nice if there was some more actual substance to it. Especially as they just stated that they would first focus on Solar Auxilia and Marines for the forseeable future a week or 2 ago.

 

Not sure why this needed a sneer on "being terminally online"? I saw the leaks while browsing social media a bit during a work break.  I never said that the article wasn't allowed or something like that. I'd liked it to have a bit more content. 

Edited Friday at 08:17 AM by Matcap86

[Gamiel]

I had personally missed any leaks so this was nice news to me.

[Joe]

Truth be told I forgot I'd posted the leak to begin with, so does that count as missing it? Definitely missing a few brain cells over here.

[DuskRaider]

 

Simple, they are resin and as such harder to work with and more expensive

Well they certainly are resin and with it a higher price point than plastic usually but I don’t know about harder to work with. Sometimes you have to wash the models a bit to remove any residue, but with the exception of something like cabling that I was expected to boil to form, it wasn’t terribly difficult to work with an more often than not the models are much more detailed and proportionate than their plastic counterparts. Or were until they started using CAD instead of making the master sculpts by hand. But this is WAAAY off topic. 
 

I do hope that the book for these is an all-encompassing tome covering the various Forge Worlds, their culture and how they make war instead of a specific campaign, but chances are better than not that it’ll just be the Martian Civil War in tinier scale. 

[Matrindur]

 

Well they certainly are resin and with it a higher price point than plastic usually but I don’t know about harder to work with. Sometimes you have to wash the models a bit to remove any residue, but with the exception of something like cabling that I was expected to boil to form, it wasn’t terribly difficult to work with an more often than not the models are much more detailed and proportionate than their plastic counterparts. Or were until they started using CAD instead of making the master sculpts by hand. But this is WAAAY off topic. 

 

As you yourself said here you might have to wash the resin and you might have to heat it up to form some parts and since these are steps you don't need for plastic that makes it harder. How much harder is debatable but it is undoubtedly harder if you have to do more. 

And while one person might not think its much work to wash the pieces before building, for another person that's the breaking point between even wanting to build the model in the first place. Each step of work you can remove from the assembly line means more people will join in. 

 

And of course each step to simplify the process also comes with a drawback. For Resin->Plastic its less details. If you go further to easy to build models its losing most of the modularity. And for minimum parts its filled in spaces as you also sometimes see for starter set models.

But I would say a normal GW plastic kit is pretty much the sweet point for most of the hobbyists. 

[Mogger351]

 

 

As you yourself said here you might have to wash the resin and you might have to heat it up to form some parts and since these are steps you don't need for plastic that makes it harder. How much harder is debatable but it is undoubtedly harder if you have to do more. 

And while one person might not think its much work to wash the pieces before building, for another person that's the breaking point between even wanting to build the model in the first place. Each step of work you can remove from the assembly line means more people will join in. 

 

And of course each step to simplify the process also comes with a drawback. For Resin->Plastic its less details. If you go further to easy to build models its losing most of the modularity. And for minimum parts its filled in spaces as you also sometimes see for starter set models.

But I would say a normal GW plastic kit is pretty much the sweet point for most of the hobbyists. 

This is ignoring the red flag of price. £20 gets me 5 chainaxes and 5 pistols, no arms. I suspect the melee weapons box will have appropriate arms and hopefully enough to equip 10 guys + specials. I also expect that not to be more than the £29 special weapon packs.

Edited Friday at 02:08 PM by Mogger351

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Well they certainly are resin and with it a higher price point than plastic usually but I don’t know about harder to work with. Sometimes you have to wash the models a bit to remove any residue, but with the exception of something like cabling that I was expected to boil to form, it wasn’t terribly difficult to work with an more often than not the models are much more detailed and proportionate than their plastic counterparts. Or were until they started using CAD instead of making the master sculpts by hand. But this is WAAAY off topic. 
 

 

 

A big part (basically, at this point, only part imo) of the appeal of heresy 2nd edition was the mass plastification of stuff. You could get way more models for way cheaper, and it broadly lowered the entry barrier. 

 

So for a lot of people, the option of buying smaller, mismatched mark, resin melee upgrade sets to convert their new plastic is a bit of a non starter. They don't want to shell out £30 for 5 sets of melee arms to run despoilers. The lack of easy troops outside of tacticals was a major complaint that the assault marines only barely assuaged.

[01RTB01]

Add in there's only 2 charnabal Sabres and no models for the other 2 then the resin for me is a non starter. 

[Indy Techwisp]

I will say that I'm surprised Mechanicum was next on the schedule for army, but then again out of all the HH factions Mechanicum and Militia/Cults are the only ones left that we know of currently to have that Loyalist/Traitor split to the army and since Militia/Cults would probably just end up being cheaper-but-worse options for the Solar Auxila, I guess it kinda had to be Mechanicum.

Still holding out hope for Custodes and Ruinstorm Daemons being added eventually tho.

[Haranin]

 

What aircraft do Mechanicum have in the lore? I'm assuming they won't want to just port the 40k Mechanicus planes, but don't recall much focus on Mechanicum air support from the novels.

HH version one they had the majority of the flyers of the guard. My avenger is painted up in mech colors, v2 removed them all.

 

[DuskRaider]

 

 

A big part (basically, at this point, only part imo) of the appeal of heresy 2nd edition was the mass plastification of stuff. You could get way more models for way cheaper, and it broadly lowered the entry barrier. 

 

So for a lot of people, the option of buying smaller, mismatched mark, resin melee upgrade sets to convert their new plastic is a bit of a non starter. They don't want to shell out £30 for 5 sets of melee arms to run despoilers. The lack of easy troops outside of tacticals was a major complaint that the assault marines only barely assuaged.

Yeah, good point on the scale. I had completely forgotten that the newer models are larger than the older, nicer FW ones. I do agree with the availability, it was always a pain to have to make an order on FW’s website and wait sometimes up to a month for the stuff to show up on my doorstep.

 

That being said, man… there’s a serious and noticeable downgrade to the models themselves with an exception perhaps for the new Mk. III which looks fantastic. To be fair, the downward slope of quality and detail seems to have started back before FW was folded into GW main. I recall the 2.0 releases of Cataphractii pauldrons and tank doors were… off. The detail was chunky and cartoony and everything just seemed more like GW main’s design philosophy that we see nowadays compared to the crisp, proportionate design of FW prior to that. 

[Redcomet]

 

Yeah, good point on the scale. I had completely forgotten that the newer models are larger than the older, nicer FW ones. I do agree with the availability, it was always a pain to have to make an order on FW’s website and wait sometimes up to a month for the stuff to show up on my doorstep.

 

That being said, man… there’s a serious and noticeable downgrade to the models themselves with an exception perhaps for the new Mk. III which looks fantastic. To be fair, the downward slope of quality and detail seems to have started back before FW was folded into GW main. I recall the 2.0 releases of Cataphractii pauldrons and tank doors were… off. The detail was chunky and cartoony and everything just seemed more like GW main’s design philosophy that we see nowadays compared to the crisp, proportionate design of FW prior to that. 

A lot of that is due to designers switching to 3d sculpting and having to learn that. 

[Mr Farson]

 

Yeah, good point on the scale. I had completely forgotten that the newer models are larger than the older, nicer FW ones. I do agree with the availability, it was always a pain to have to make an order on FW’s website and wait sometimes up to a month for the stuff to show up on my doorstep.

 

That being said, man… there’s a serious and noticeable downgrade to the models themselves with an exception perhaps for the new Mk. III which looks fantastic. To be fair, the downward slope of quality and detail seems to have started back before FW was folded into GW main. I recall the 2.0 releases of Cataphractii pauldrons and tank doors were… off. The detail was chunky and cartoony and everything just seemed more like GW main’s design philosophy that we see nowadays compared to the crisp, proportionate design of FW prior to that. 

 

 

The Cataphractii cauldrons were fw sculpts that were discontinued. There was only about 5 legions done iirc before they canned them 

[darkhorse0607]

 

A lot of that is due to designers switching to 3d sculpting and having to learn that. 

 

The Blood Angels range is a prime example. On one hand you have the Crimson Paladins, full of great detail. On the other you have the Dawnbreakers and Angels Tears which has some of the clunkiest detail in the range

 

Now back onto robots, I wonder what the turn around time for the new Arlatax will be in 28mm form. Or if they plan to make a 28mm Magos on floating chair

[Orion]

 

A lot of that is due to designers switching to 3d sculpting and having to learn that. 

 

Or it's just new designers/art direction. That'd be my guess. 

Usually good artists excel at new tools because they have solid fundamental knowledge. 

Judging proportions, ratios, detail density etc doesn't change based on the medium. 

 

Traditional vs Digital. Same sculptor.

The style doesn't change.

 

[Mandragola]

I’m looking forward to this release a lot. I’m a little concerned about the sprue layout as it seems that some of the units will be much easier to get hold of than others. It seems you get one (possibly identical) domitar and atlawhatsit per sprue, but a decent number of Castellax and Vorax (which must have a lot of parts). On the other hand thanatars seem to come in a box of eight, so you’ll have plenty - possibly with just this box.
 

I think I’ll probably get this. They’ll probably play very differently to the existing stuff. Failing that, they’ll make great basing material for my titans. 

[DuskRaider]

 

 

 

The Cataphractii cauldrons were fw sculpts that were discontinued. There was only about 5 legions done iirc before they canned them 

I know for a fact that they had released Death Guard Cataphractii pauldrons twice. The first release were the same proportions and detail quality of the original Cataphractii models from FW, trim lines were in keeping with the style of those models, the iconography was crisp with small details like rivets, tiny cracks, etc. 

 

The second release was… not any of that. The trim was ridiculously chunky and void of any real detail, the iconography was large and yet void of any real sort of detail. It removed the appearance of realism and replaced it with more comic book or cartoon style elements that flew in the face of the model design that they were intended to be used for. It’s like looking at the FW Praetor that Orion posted and then looking at one of the newer GW ones in comparison. There is a massive disparity in quality and detail, but mind you these were both cast in resin so I’m not sure what the excuse is other than it massive change in design philosophy for the company as a whole. 
 

Anyhow, this has gone way off topic, but this may actually be an interesting one to bring up and discuss in Amicus. 

[Petitioner's City]

 

I’m not sure what the excuse is other than it massive change in design philosophy for the company as a whole. 

 

I think it's just time and changes in style and production, nothing meaningfully intentional. It has been a long time now since those designs, just as it's been a long time since the designs of the early 00s or the 90s or earlier.

 

Thinking of Edgar's recent DeSade, it looks meaningfully different from his early 2010s work like those above or his original Aux - again reflecting an artist (and wider artistic culture) changing.

Edited Saturday at 10:40 AM by Petitioner's City

[DuskRaider]

 

 

I think it's just time and changes in style and production, nothing meaningfully intentional. It has been a long time now since those designs, just as it's been a long time since the designs of the early 00s or the 90s or earlier.

 

Thinking of Edgar's recent DeSade, it looks meaningfully different from his early 2010s work like those above or his original Aux - again reflecting an artist (and wider artistic culture) changing.

I threw a topic up under the Amicus board concerning all of this along with pictures, that way we can declutter this thread. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It's not entitlement it's frustration. They could have let HH 2.0 have a full edition to itself before launching a spin off. There are plenty of things for SA and Mech they could have done. Not too mention the huge amount of plastic releases Space Marines are still waiting for it. 

 

We don't even have the melee weapons yet. Not every Legion even has resin Praetors yet. 

 

They could and should have focused on fully supporting HH and left LI for a year or two because for, while not for everyone I accept, for a lot of people it's hugely frustrating to see LI get stuff before the proper HH game gets things. 

 

 

[Gamiel]

 

It's not entitlement it's frustration. They could have let HH 2.0 have a full edition to itself before launching a spin off. There are plenty of things for SA and Mech they could have done. Not too mention the huge amount of plastic releases Space Marines are still waiting for it. 

 

We don't even have the melee weapons yet. Not every Legion even has resin Praetors yet. 

 

They could and should have focused on fully supporting HH and left LI for a year or two because for, while not for everyone I accept, for a lot of people it's hugely frustrating to see LI get stuff before the proper HH game gets things.

But by that logic should not GW have focused on 40k and left HH until they had updated that whole range?

[Mogger351]

 

It's not entitlement it's frustration. They could have let HH 2.0 have a full edition to itself before launching a spin off. There are plenty of things for SA and Mech they could have done. Not too mention the huge amount of plastic releases Space Marines are still waiting for it. 

 

We don't even have the melee weapons yet. Not every Legion even has resin Praetors yet. 

 

They could and should have focused on fully supporting HH and left LI for a year or two because for, while not for everyone I accept, for a lot of people it's hugely frustrating to see LI get stuff before the proper HH game gets things. 

 

 

That does sound an awful lot like entitlement though. I understand what you're saying - they half baked the SM range for HH and lots are still outstanding. But saying others shouldn't get their own stuff until that's fulfilled is indeed, entitlement.