Test TS List, and lack of anti tank?

[Xenith]

So I've been a bit more enthusiastic about 10th ed recently, nd have enjoyed getting my old favourites the Thousand Sons onto the table, however it feels we're lacking some of the tools other forces have to deal with vehicles, and it also feels like Magnus is the key to the whole army - without him it just feels...lacking power? And almost the same with the mutalith. 

 

2000pts with magnus.

Exalted sorc, disc, forbidden lore - flies about and doombolts

infernal - vortex

infernal

Magnus

TS Sorc - goes with 1 rubric unit to hold home objective. 

Sorc in TDA - crystal

 

4x5 rubrics, one with all flamers, others are 3x bolters, reaper, all have icons.

1x mutalith

10 Scarabs

 

It feels really weird to have over a thousand points in characters, however it feels like these ones are needed to do objectives and make units shine, as well as pumping up the numbers of Cabal points - I wish icons gave bonus cap again. 

 

Here's my option with no magnus:

 

Ahriman

Exalted on foot

exalted on disc - forbidden lore

infernal

infernal

sorcerer

TDA sorcerer - crystal

 

5 rubrics, flamers

10 rubrics, soulreaper

2x 5 rubrics,

 

1x10 scarabs

1x vortex

2x2 spawn.

 

Bit more of a random list, I unfortunately don't own the 3 MVB's that people seem to be taking. How will this fare with 10th/paraih nexus?

[Ulfast]

Magnus is the best so that list with him looks stronger. Our anti-tank is always mortal wounds. Double doombolt take care of most things. 

[N1SB]

That's almost exactly what guys in our meta have observed:

 

• It's like KSons revolve around Magnus (very fitting actually)
• and Magnus also happens to be the best damage dealer
• this is a very Tank-/Monster-friendly edition, everyone needs Anti-Tank, and for KSons' it's in the form of sheer Mortal Wounds

 

You're probably right about the Mutalith, I usually see the 1, but I don't hear as much about it.

 

With Magnus I think you're about to have a good time, Brother Xenith.

Edited Wednesday at 03:00 PM by N1SB

[Indy Techwisp]

While it's obviously less "desirable" due to not providing any Cabal Points or having an Invuln Save, our best Anti-Tank unit besides Magnus and the Mutalith is....

The Predator Annihilator, specifically the one with Lascannon Sponsons.

 

This is a Tank-eat-Tank Edition and thankfully we do actually have a Tank that can compete in it.

[Xenith]

Thanks all, this i kind of confirming my suspicions of Magnus being the keystone of the entire TS strength - I'm key to get hime done and painted, but obviously it leaves us in a vulnerable position as if he gets nerfed, the whole index crumbles, which is a shame. I did think of the Annihilator - I have a destructor on the paint desk and an annihilator in bits awaiting inspiration, but I might have to come to it right after Magnus. 

 

What do we think about the spawn?

[Indy Techwisp]

 

What do we think about the spawn?

 

I've wanted to try out Spawn for a while, but since I've not yet gotten around to making and/or finding a decent Proxy Model for them, I've not been able to test them out in a game.

I'd be interested in seeing what people think of them too, because all the feeback on them I've seen from outside B&C is "Damn, the kit is trash."

[Montoya]

I generally run two forge fiends plus a mutalith (thinking of a second multalith).  Never had a problem with tanks with them (plus Magnus) in the list.   

[N1SB]

That's a really good question.  You know how when people do use Chaos Spawn they always proxy/convert their own and they're like "these are my Chaos Spawn proxies"?  I haven't been noticing that with Ksons or anyone else, for that matter.  I'm curious, too, I'll try to ask this Warhammer Weekend down at our store.

[Indy Techwisp]

 

I generally run two forge fiends plus a mutalith (thinking of a second multalith).  Never had a problem with tanks with them (plus Magnus) in the list.   

 

I forgot about the Forge Fiend.
The triple-plasma loadout is pretty good against tanks.

 

In the same vein, the Helbrute can also be built into a decent AT platform (even if mine seems to prefer blowing up it's own Plasma Cannon).

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I don't know if I would say that the forgefiend is pretty good antitank - more that it can do the job against lighter tanks, but struggles against anything tougher.

 

The issue is that its only S 10, which allows you to wound things like whirlwinds and rhinos on a 4+, but anything tougher than that you need 5+... which brings it (for me) into the category of not really being that great at it.  And, while it does have good AP, that doesn't really get it far against knights and such that have invulnerable saves.

 

That said, killing the lighter stuff is still a very valuable role, and can be reason to take it.  Just keep in mind that you'll likely need something more against the actual heavy stuff.  That said, mortal wounds + a fiend (with maybe a friend) might get you there.

 

As for spawn, in addition to their kind of crappy models, they just don't do enough this edition - the -1 OC to enemies looks nice, but its only -1 (so only prevents elite infantry units from scoring, for the most part), extremely short range and the spawn has no OC value of its own.  In a game where you largely keep units from scoring by killing them, the spawn doesn't really help with that as its not particularly potent itself.  Now, there are some edge cases where paired with a melee unit it might allow you to remove enemy control (or flip control) of an objective a turn earlier than you might otherwise, but to me that's a pretty uncommon event, given the ability of the enemy to just kill the fairly squishy spawn if that is likely to occur and the shortage of good pairing units for it in the TS codex.

 

Now, in 9th with its automatic healing it was a great objective grabber, action monkey and general harassment unit - but it just doesn't do that anymore so I can see why no one seems to be taking them anymore.

 

As for hellbrutes, I think they can be quite good in an anti-tank role, though one needs to keep in mind that they are very flimsy this edition as their T is low enough that they are good targets for meltas and any real anti-tank will eat through their small pool of wounds really quickly given their lack of invulnerable save.  That said, it has a small(ish) profile and good range, so it is possible to use it in a more sniper type role using terrain to reduce opposing fire.  Don't think I would chose the plasma for the antitank role, though - which would also prevent Indy's self-immolation issue. 

 

Note, I'm not a Thousand Suns player, but I think the relevant unit rules are the same as in the Hereticus codex and I would think my experience there is likely relevant to this discussion - if not, I look forward to learning how things are different.

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui

[Montoya]

 

I don't know if I would say that the forgefiend is pretty good antitank - more that it can do the job against lighter tanks, but struggles against anything tougher.

 

The issue is that its only S 10, which allows you to wound things like whirlwinds and rhinos on a 4+, but anything tougher than that you need 5+... which brings it (for me) into the category of not really being that great at it.  And, while it does have good AP, that doesn't really get it far against knights and such that have invulnerable saves.

 

 

 

 

Very true on the bigger things.      I do have to make sure to have the Mutalith in the list to help deal with those, plus the mortal wounds as you note.

 

One thing I haven't used yet (though do in my blood angels list) is a vindicator.    Although short range, it is a tank buster.   It does suffer from the same vulnerability that a predator does though