New expansion: The Rise of the Dark Mechanicum

[Indy Techwisp]

FWIW, Dark Mech also can't take one of the Tank variants, but they're not in the picture.

[BolterZorro]

thank you guys! So, with 2 boxes, I think that I am pretty much good to go for 2 armies, the admech one will be walkers oriented, the dark one stalker oriented, with both having few tanks.

[The Officer]

The Goonhammer review of the book says: 

Quote

The Dark Mechanicum works a lot like the Taghmata list and shares most Detachments. You can have any of the Mechanicum detachments apart from Automata and the Krios Venator – which may be a mistake as I can’t see why it shouldn’t be included.

 

So wouldn't that mean that the Dark Mech can take the cyborgs as well? Thallax, Ursarax and Myrmidons? Or am I missing something here?

 

Edit: Myrmidons were already included in the picture, they're just so tiny I didn't spot them! 

Edited October 21 by The Officer

[Crablezworth]

2 hours ago, BolterZorro said:

thank you guys! So, with 2 boxes, I think that I am pretty much good to go for 2 armies, the admech one will be walkers oriented, the dark one stalker oriented, with both having few tanks.

 

3, the dark mech stuff looks to be split into 2 boxes, the big serpos and the rest 

[BolterZorro]

1 hour ago, Crablezworth said:

 

3, the dark mech stuff looks to be split into 2 boxes, the big serpos and the rest 

I know what you mean ;-) but I don't plan to play LI atm but mostly ... HH/40k at 8mm scale with more minis than at 32mm scale. So, 3 should be overkill (a lot, A LOT, of minis :-) )

[Mandragola]

The units you can't use as Dark Mech correspond to the contents of sprues. The robots are all on one sprue apart from the Thanatars, which have their own.

 

If you're playing Dark Mechanicum all your units are on the infantry sprue, and of course the Triaros too if you want. Those are slightly less useful without walkers to transport, though they're still excellent transports in their own right. 

 

If you're planning to play Dark Mechanicum then you can either wait for the individual releases of the kits you want or but the box (if you can still find one) and sell the robots - or use them as allies.

[DuskRaider]

I’m really hoping we see a Dark Mechanicum-specific box set with the various Stalker models and the universal Mechanicum units both can use. I picked up the new box, but it’s annoying that most of the contents will be relegated to an allied formation only, if used at all. I’ll most definitely paint them up as the hobby side sees more of my time and energy than gaming these days, but it’s still a bummer that when released, you cannot play a Dark Mechanicum formation proper. 
 

That does make me wonder as well… for those Dark Mech formations that can be used by the Taghmata, do they substitute the Stalkers with something else or does that requirement no longer exist if they choose those formations? Or does it mean they’re just not accessible? 

[Mandragola]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m really hoping we see a Dark Mechanicum-specific box set with the various Stalker models and the universal Mechanicum units both can use. I picked up the new box, but it’s annoying that most of the contents will be relegated to an allied formation only, if used at all. I’ll most definitely paint them up as the hobby side sees more of my time and energy than gaming these days, but it’s still a bummer that when released, you cannot play a Dark Mechanicum formation proper. 
 

That does make me wonder as well… for those Dark Mech formations that can be used by the Taghmata, do they substitute the Stalkers with something else or does that requirement no longer exist if they choose those formations? Or does it mean they’re just not accessible? 

Here's what we've heard from Warhammer Community: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/xd9mklal/heresy-thursday-raise-your-oily-manipulators-to-the-sky-in-praise-of-the-dark-mechanicum/

 

"A box of Stalker Constructs contains 30 models, eight Harpax ‘Swarmer’ Scout Hosts, and two each of the Errax, Tenebrax, and Scintillax. The Serperos ‘Overlord’ Heavy Stalkers box contains four, and what's more both boxes contain the relevant terminals for using the  Errax, Tenebrax, Scintillax, and Serperos in games of Adeptus Titanicus!"

 

So it looks like we have two Dark Mech sprues. One has three sets of legs for the smaller stalkers, with one of each body and assorted options, plus 12 Swarmers - which go 3/base. The other has two Overlords.  I expect to see these released in standard 2 sprue/box sets rather than a big box, though it's also possible we'll get one of those eventually.

 

That makes badmech fairly reasonable to purchase in the long term, once all the big boxes are sold out. Six stalkers to a box is about average for tanks but you also get two infantry Detachments per box. Four Overlords to a box is a decent deal too in terms of currency/point.

 

If buying dark mech it might be better to get these separate boxes rather than the big one. Or get the big one and sell the robots before the official boxes come out I guess, then using the money to buy the eventual badmech release.

 

Edit: I really don't like how they claim things like "a box contains 30 models". Technically it's true but the swarmers are in bases of 3. You're actually getting 14 objects to move around a table, not 30. 14 is a perfectly respectable number so they shouldn't mess around like this, in my opinion.

Edited October 22 by Mandragola

[DuskRaider]

Don’t Dark Mechanicum have access to Thallaxi? I just thought about it and they’re crossed out of that picture there but from what I understand, they’re not restricted in a Dark Mech formation. 
 

I think the Harpax have some good potential in a list and I’m happy to see they’re included with the Stalkers, I just hope we see the Stalker boxes soon. I have a mighty need for them and I’m really looking forward to painting them up and I’m eager to see how I can fit the variants into a list and how they’ll compliment one another on the table. 
 

Speaking of painting up, I think I’m going to go with a more traditional design for mine, or more closer to my Legio Mortis. I do intend to supplement my formations with some Titans, and it feels as though Warbringers may actually have a place in a list with their Skyfire. 
 

Edit: I’m going to answer my own question: here’s everything available to Dark Mechanicum. I snagged a screenshot from the GMG video. 

Edited October 24 by DuskRaider

[Crablezworth]

So after taking in the new army lists for mechanicum.

 

 

So far some things really stand out over others. I'm a bit frustrated that we didn't see any weapon use some of the unused weapons traits, like power capacitor or siege weapon, or some of the under used one like ripple fire. They also will include something like "twin-linked" in the weapons title only to sometimes be accurate and sometimes not, which is a bit odd. There's a lot of light at which is flexible but can get a bit repetitive. A core problem that' pre existed both lists is there to see in full force and that is mech is paying a lot for resilience that really doesn't add up. Starting for example with the abeyant, its a cool upgrade as it add a wound, a meltagun and +1 caf, same time it almost doubles the cost of the archmagos from 20 to 45. I get gw wanted "more wounds" as the theme for mech but it doesn't really jive all that well with the core games rules. 

 

Tech thralls are interesting, they're basically like fearless or pseudo fearless solar aux lasgunners.  Thallax so far seem strong, they start at just 2 bases per detachment but one can go up to 8 bases for 85pts, each base is rocking 2 8 inch lightning gun shots -1 ap light atand 1 plasma shot -1ap light at, so each base is capable of 3 light AT shots. At 8 bases that's 24 light AT shots for 85pts, and they have jump to help mitigate range deficits a bit or march 21 inches to get into place for the next turn. But I want you to remember that 85pts for 24 shots sorta bench mark. 

 

Myrmidon secutors seem interesting, like the thallax they start at 2 bases per detachment and go up to 8. They have implacable, a very strong caf of +6 and maxima bolters with 2 shots at 8 inches with assault and light. They seem like very good assault infantry, not the cheapest but decent. 

 

Myrmidon destructors seems good as well, they work out to being the same cost as sectutors, you can take 2-8 and their weapon options are decent. The conversion beamers really stand out, they have the same range as lascannons ap -2 and no keywords. They also have implacable and a decent caf of +3. 

 

So infantry, as always, strong. But this is also what makes a lot of the list seems a bit questionable in price or loadout or firepower. 

 

 

 

The arlatax is a jump walker, usual walker save of 4+ and unlike other walkers it has 2 wounds. It has the same +6 caf as the secutors and an invul of 6 like a contemptor dread as well as the armoured special rule. Where I find it a bit underwhelming is the firepower department, it has an autocannon and plasma cannon, but this works out to the same firepower, literally, as a single thallax base, just with more range, 16 and 12 vs 8 and 10. The thallax though don't need a techpriest nearby to march however and arlatax do as they only have advance and chargen normally. So 40pts for a single 2 wound walker when i could spend the same and get almost 4 bases of thallax, you start to see the problem. Not saying to discount them or that they're useless but, other than having them on their own sorta hiding behind terrain hoping you forget they're there seems sorta like their modus operandi as operating in force just seems really expensive. 

 

Domitars are a bit cheaper and basically have marine missile launchers. As those are flexible proven weapons that's a good start, they also have grav hammers that give them ap -2 wrecker but they'll need a priest to charge as they only have advance and march. They have the same 2 wounds and 6+ inv as arlatax, slightly worse caf of +4. And no jumpack so not as maneuverable as arlatax. They still strike be as a bit pricey at 35pts for 1, you can get 5 for 140pts, still seems pricey to me. A bit part of what makes missile marines so good isn't just the launchers but the fact they can shoot out of structures. Something the domitar won't be able to do. 

 

Castellax are as well a bit of a let down. They have a lot of short ranged firepower and same +4 caf of the domitars, but their guns are both only 8 inches and they need a techpriest nearby to charge as they only have advance and march. They share the same 6+ inv save and 2 wounds, but you're paying the same per base as domitars. Models look great though, just a bit unfortunate. 

 

Ursurax again like the other infantry seems decent, jump packs like thallax, even cheaper than thallax, you get 2 bases for 20pts and 8 for 70pts. They're basically the close combat thallax, their weapons are decent but I can still see them charging due to their +3 caf. I was hoping they'd have deep strike or ability to buy it but sadly no, still a great unit. 

 

Vorax are the first battle-automata to really shine for me at least. They have a lot goingfor them for 40pts, they're pretty fast with a movement of 7 and come with forward deployment. Their biggest weakness is they really do need a techpriest babysitter if they plan on shooting as the don't have the advance order without them, just charge and march. Their guns aren't super long range but the amount of firepower is notable, just a single vorax base has 3 ap -1 light, rapid fire shots at 12 inches and 2 ap -1 light AT shots at 8 inches, so can damage both infantry and vehicles and they have rend on top of their +3 caf. They're not the cheapest but like the other battle-automata their detachment size is pretty flexible, in this case 1-4, only downside is def gonna want a priest/cortex nearby. 

 

Vulturax I also really like, great looking model but fits the bill as sorta up-gunned skimmer.  My favorite part is they come stock with outflank, really wish more units did.  It had advance and march order so for shooting that's good, will need some help for charges but that's not really its fortay. Movement stat of 9 and skimmer is great, only thing I wish it had was slightly longer range weapons but the ranges aren't bad. It has an arc blaster and havoc launcher, the first gun being 10 inch range with a couple shots and neutron flux, was nice to see something other than light at lol. The havoc launcher is also 2 shots at 15 light at. Again like the other automata, its detachment size is very flexible with 1-4 per detachment. I think one of the real upsides of this is mechanicum will be very flexible for lower point games, where solar aux and legions might be stuck taking perhaps more models in a detachment than they might ideally like, mech will be taking exactly as many as they want largely. 

 

 

 

Thanatars are a bit of a disappointment. I don't think they really nailed the resiliency right here, if any automata was going to have a better than 4+save it really should have been these bois as they're huge and quite robust in 30k. Sadly they have the same resilience as the others, 4+ save, armoured and 2 wounds. Notably one of the two orders they have is advance and first fire, so they'll need help marching/charging from techpriests/cortex. They have a good caf of +4 but without charge not many ways to make use of it unless they themselves are charged. Weapon wise its a mixed bag. The plasma mortar is truly excellent but like with mole mortars for solar aux, its missing the barrage trait. That said its still a great weapon ,18 inch range, ap -3 with demolisher and ignores cover. The downside is, the sprues only allow for 2/4 per sprue to have them, the other 2 must take the heavy lascannon. And that's sadly a bit of a let down, for one, it marks the only place where there is an upgrade cost in the list of +5pts. The weapon is fine, 22 inch range -1 ap and armourbane, the problem is, it really should in my opinion pack more of a punch than a vanquisher cannnon and it doesn't. That and the range being 10 inches less is also a sore point. I really feel like this weapon needed the siege weapon trait, wherein if the model doesn't move it can double the weapons range. The graviton rams not having any ap is a bit of a let down. The mauler cannons are great but their 8 inch range is just too mismatched with what they're meant to do which is fire support. The models are amazing, but the rules are a bit of a let down like the castellax. 

 

 

Karacnos are going to be mvp's. They're just fantastic tanks for the points, and interestingly like automata their detachment starts at just 1 tank, sorta like super heavies or the newer malcadors. Movement speed and save are all fine, 8 and 3+. Its weapon loadout is really strong, for starters you've got the mortar battery, 30 inch range and 2 shots hitting on 4's with -1 ap, barrage and ignores cover. Not quite the basilisks range or ap, but 2 shots and 30 inches is very very good. It gets better, they have lightning locks that also do 2 shots at 12 inches, -1ap and point defence, no other keyword, so these can be quite nasty as they don't really care what the target is. It gets better, they also have shock rams, so like the domitar get ap -2 wrecker. Can't say enough good things about these bad bois, the only criticism is these tanks are huge and only have 1 wound, they're like a malcador's size. 

 

 

Krios Battle tanks are cool, but not as cool as karacnos, For starters you have to buy them in at least 3's, so you're looking at 100pts to start. Same armour and movement stats as karacnos. They have 2 options for their man weapons, lightning cannon or irad scourer, lightning cannon for me seems like the winner, 22 inch range, 2 shots, ap-2, no traits so great at targeting anything. The irad scourer is still quite cool, 16 inch range 2 shots ap -2 light at no cover, seems good for digging stuff out of cover. Their secondary weapons are volite caliver sponsons, sorta meh compared to the karacnos's secondary weapons. 

 

Krios venators seems "ok", what I do like is they differ from the other krios detachment in that you start with 2 instead of 3 for 60pts, so that's nice, not forced to buy as many. Same armour and movement stats. Main weapon is pulsar fusil, pretty short range at 12 inches, 3+ to hit ap -3 anti tank. It's basically a more useable meltagun, but still,  I feel like I'd rather have the normal krios with the shot lightning cannons at 22 inches. It has the same volkite caliver sponsons as the krios as well. I think these might be fun for smaller games on like a 4x4 or 3x3, but they seem a bit meh to me compared to other tank options. 

 

Last but not least triaros. The short and sweet of it is they're well worth 15pts. 8 inch move, 3+ armour and large transport 4 lets them carry 4 bases of infantry. They pack a lot of firepower for 15pts, also sorta highlighting why castellax feel so meh. They have volkite for 1 shot at 12 inches with accurate light deflagrate. Seemingly they get accurate on account of being twin linked but this is where it gets weird. They also have twin linked mauler bolt cannon, 3 shots ap -1 light at, but no accurate. Small quibble but they're the ones going to the hassle of naming it as such, it should be consistent. Points wise 15 for these really highlights how much LI tends to over value resilience, to compare, the solar aux dracosans are like 37-42pts, for largely the same vehicle with less firepower but a 2+ save.

 

A core problem the game has is, it doesn't realize costing resilience as it does work against activation count, so the design basically screws quality shooting, elite armies with resilience and low detachment/model count and screams "take a bunch of :cuss: with firepower and have as many activations as you can. This is also why infantry are so broken and mech are no different, the infantry are largely better than the automata. The whole two wounds thing feels more like a gimmick than something practical. Also a gimmick they largely forgot about when it comes to vehicles being all 1 wound, A big disappointment for me a lack of both flyer options and AA. This is also where gw marketing really works against common sense list inclusions and I'll give 2 solid examples. The first being the avenger strike fighter. Yes its box art/branding etc won't mention mechanicum,  but it'd be the easiest inclusion ever in he list, especially seeing as one can just buy a box of 4 of them. Second example, tarantulas. Now obviously less likely as they're both paired with marine or aux on sprue, but functionally they'd fit the role as AA and can still be painted to match any mech scheme. Just seems like a missed opportunity, there's already the precedent tha they're like the one unit shared by legion and aux. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mandragola]

@Crablezworth that's a great review of the Mech list. I think you've identified a core issue with points, which is that they price models according to their durability rather than their output. Durable units end up being swamped by cheap hordes. It's just so weird that they've produced a list where units of robots can be out-shot by their own transports, for example.

 

I'd like to see some changes to the core of LI that probably require a whole new edition. There are far too many activations, slowing everything down and making big units kind of terrible. Infantry costs are totally wrong compared to vehicles.

[Crablezworth]

6 hours ago, Mandragola said:

@Crablezworth that's a great review of the Mech list. I think you've identified a core issue with points, which is that they price models according to their durability rather than their output. Durable units end up being swamped by cheap hordes. It's just so weird that they've produced a list where units of robots can be out-shot by their own transports, for example.

 

I'd like to see some changes to the core of LI that probably require a whole new edition. There are far too many activations, slowing everything down and making big units kind of terrible. Infantry costs are totally wrong compared to vehicles.

 

Ya I think it's becoming more evident that saves really should be taken in combat. My first thought with just about every weapon with a stat of 10 or less is "why wouldn't the detachment just charge if in range to shoot?". I also am starting to think 10 inch charges for infantry are just as nutty as running 15. If infantry charged 5, a lot of the shorter range weapons may see a bit more use. 

 

The triaros's point cost is a but nutty. It's frustrating that thanatars are so pricey but half their weapons are the same ones bolted on a triaros, given models tha tmove 4 inches 8 inch guns just seems unfortunate.  I have no explanation either why the mauler bolt cannons aren't at least 12 inch range like a heavy bolter. Wish triaros cost a bit more, it makes me look at my dracosans and cry.

 

 

I think one of the saddest things about li in gw's eyes is they don't seem to want to touch low point level games at all and that honestly could make a great supplement/expansion and entry point, but marketing wants new players to think everyone is having like 3k evening games, it makes so little sense. 

 

But ya agreed on the too many activations, it's entirely nuts to look at like a baneblade detachment being 1-6 now that single dreadnought size robots can be taken in detachments of 1. The game just doesn't really deal with activation economy at all and the design feels like every time designers put in limits, marketing kicks in the door screaming that not letting players buy, literally, whatever they want, sales might be affected. So we get these terribly convoluted army construction rules in the form of formations, but on actual limit on formations. It seems almost superficial or performative, I just don't get going all this way to fumble it at army construction and tell people to do whatever they want. That doesn't even work for fluff games let alone normal gaming. But ya, something needs to happen to reconcile the infantry costs with tanks. 

 

current ideas

 

saves in combat

running only double movement not triple

charging only movement stat

 

perhaps even having to pass a morale test to charge anything scale 2 or higher

 

[Mandragola]

More good points. I’m going to start a topic on fixing LI. Can’t hurt to get all these ideas down in one place rather than taking up other topics, like this one. 

[DuskRaider]

I was hoping Heresy Thursday would announce the PO for the Stalkers this coming weekend, but it seems we’ve been shafted. 
 

As for the faction itself, I do find it odd that they seemingly went out of their way to kinda… I don’t know, weaken? the majority of the automata that are exclusive to the Taghmata. You’d think they would strive to make them more viable to ensure “Loyalist” / non-Stalker Dark Mech allies would be more enticing. As of now, I don’t feel as bad about not having access to them without the 30% allied mumbo jumbo.

 

Right now it feels more like this faction / factions or more viewed as Allies more than anything else. That’s not to say they won’t be fleshed out more in the future, I expect it, but currently I feel that in order to get a random pick up game with these guys, no planning or anything ahead of time, it will require some allies to make them work better. Between filling in gaps that are glaringly obvious and giving the force more range / wounds, it seems as though they were meant to bring some buddies (or be the 30% allies themselves). It is what it is, and I think pure Mechanicum vs. pure Mechanicum could be a lot of fun, but good luck getting that together currently. 

[Crablezworth]

Just a PSA to say legion builder updated and it has all the new lists and units from book 4. 

Edited November 2 by Crablezworth

[Indy Techwisp]

Just wanna bump this back up with a question:
What do we reckon Mechanicum Taghmata will get in their Support box?

Additionally, do we think Dark Mechanicum will get more stuff that the things we've had previewed already or will they be relegated to "Fluffy Subfaction" territory?

[vadersson]

I would say one of the sprues in the battle group box is their effective support box.  Probably the one with the vultrix or whatever the proto bloat drone thing is called.  ;). The other two are probably the inf sore and an automata sprue.  I don’t think they will get a support box like SA or the legions with things like rapiers and tarantulas.

 

There is still a lot of room for new Mech and Dark Mech creations.  Hopefully they will develop some.

[BolterZorro]

Be aware of an incoming nervous breakdown when assembling the castellax and the vorax! They are a PITA to build. They show the limit of assembly at this scale. I am too old for those tiny guys (took me twice the amount of time to build the castelax+vorax than to do the whole rest of the box, and with some really crazy mad times yelling at GW lol)

 

On the positive side: the results are some nice detailled minis (but kinda fragile).

[Crablezworth]

48 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

Be aware of an incoming nervous breakdown when assembling the castellax and the vorax! They are a PITA to build. They show the limit of assembly at this scale. I am too old for those tiny guys (took me twice the amount of time to build the castelax+vorax than to do the whole rest of the box, and with some really crazy mad times yelling at GW lol)

 

On the positive side: the results are some nice detailled minis (but kinda fragile).

 

Yeah I found the experience of the vorax to be particularly unpleasant. Have to say, I think another reason to like 3d printing is the component count is much lower for a lot of the files. I find I don't get much from building stuff at this scale and on the plastic side, a lot of anxiety about losing/dropping pieces. 

[BolterZorro]

30 minutes ago, Crablezworth said:

I find I don't get much from building stuff at this scale and on the plastic side, a lot of anxiety about losing/dropping pieces

...which is so true for ALL scales. Not counting the price. In this mater, I'm planing to print some (a lots?) armigers which are so expensive at GW and in resin. The pro:  I assemble the kit with my sofware and print them assembled! 
I'm looking forward to seeing those armigers (and variants) in plastic.

[Crablezworth]

2 hours ago, BolterZorro said:

...which is so true for ALL scales. Not counting the price. In this mater, I'm planing to print some (a lots?) armigers which are so expensive at GW and in resin. The pro:  I assemble the kit with my sofware and print them assembled! 
I'm looking forward to seeing those armigers (and variants) in plastic.

 

Yeah being able to pre assemble and print largely one piece is great. The armigers seem like a real pain to assemble from fw. 

[DuskRaider]

I just got the box and holy tiny bits. It’s almost like someone at GW Main dared them to make the Mech models in as many parts as possible and at the smallest scale. 
 

I'll say this, though: the detail is amazing for such a small models. Worryingly detailed, if I’m being honest. I sorta dread painting these. 
 

I do think that Thallax will be my Core focus, the Tech Thralls are just garbage and I understand that they’re cheap chaff but man… they’re really bad. I do like that the army has various ways to be surprisingly fast considering the faction. A lot of choices have a movement of 7”, which means they can get to objectives or the opposition a lot faster than other armies (unless they’re using transports, obviously). 
 

Does anyone remember how many Harpax are supposed to come on the Stalker sprues? They seem like a good option for Dark Mech, and I think they would compliment not just the larger Stalk Tanks but the Thallax as well, especially with their unique Formation. 

[vadersson]

Yeah, I just got my Domintars done today.  Way to small and fiddley.  I can't imagine putting some of the others together.  Not sure why GW had to go that small, some of the peices look like they could have been molded in fewer parts.  Oh well, it is an experience.

[DuskRaider]

I think it has a lot to do with the tiny details like pistons and whatnot that would most likely come out looking off if they tried to do it as a single mold or something. Remember all the whinging people did about the Astartes? It would be off the charts if it were done similarly with the big Mechs. 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Short term pain, long term gain, as they say.